What is Difficulty?

[xent]

This post isn't a request but a curiosity, like asking 100 people to pick one thing they like and to come to the conclusion that you get lucky when even some pick the same thing.

So what is difficulty to you? On some post i see people complain that this game is to easy for them an i keep wondering myself what do they mean by that, and because the answer i have in my mind sounds confusing to me, i thought i just ask you people to explain.

For people that are interested in what i think atm with what you mean by that is where you enter the world on the corruption layer and almost have a zero percent chance to survive. Of Course i must be wrong on that because if that was true then who will even play this game anymore.

If then asked to me what do you see in difficulty for this game my response will be brain teasers like minecraft did with their Redstone. of course that is keeping in the back of my mind the creative building aspects of this game and not the survival aspects of lets say "7 days do die" where you can't afford building creative because of the destruction zombies cause.

Again this is a curiosity and not a discussion on if the Devs need to implement this or not.

[Eveaustria]

Uhm, thanks :) However I just wanted to list what a higher "difficulty" means in terms of level-design for me. I did not aim at implying that I would enjoy a more difficult gameplay for any game in general. It always depends on the all-over-game-design.

Too much stress and/or frustration usually makes me stop playing certain games (or hard(core)-modes). Like when losing all my stuff again and again because of lags, or having to start over after weeks of gameplay because of perma-death, or experiencing the childish mocking of PvPers...

For Creativerse, I think having both an easier difficulty (for creative-mode) and also a higher difficulty (for hard(core)-mode) to choose would be awesome. If you get bored, you could just play on a world set to hard-mode for a while, and if all the fighting starts to annoy you, you can change back to creative or adventure-gameplay for a while again ;)

Still I am not suggesting to add *everything* that I have listed above (that would define a "higher difficulty") into the "hard(core)-mode" for Creativerse. Mainly because some of these features would take too long to be developed, and I think it would be best to have a creative-mode and hard(core)-mode as soon as possible, and to just polish them further afterwards in the months and years to come, depending on the feedback of players :)

[AvilerED]

Originally posted by Eveaustria:

...in games the "difficulty"-settings usually refer to how hard it is for my character to survive during his/her adventures, specifically when encountering enemies...

This is pretty much my feeling, as well. When it comes to CV, a lot of the things Eveaustria mentioned are things that I would say would increase the difficulty. Specifically things like removing the fear of water that mobs have, giving them the same reach as the player, making mob pathfinding more intelligent (tracking where you are, not your "last known position"), adding additional environmental effects, spreading environmental effects, additional or more intense debuffs.

[xent]

Originally posted by AvilerED:

Originally posted by Eveaustria:

...in games the "difficulty"-settings usually refer to how hard it is for my character to survive during his/her adventures, specifically when encountering enemies...

This is pretty much my feeling, as well. When it comes to CV, a lot of the things Eveaustria mentioned are things that I would say would increase the difficulty. Specifically things like removing the fear of water that mobs have, giving them the same reach as the player, making mob pathfinding more intelligent (tracking where you are, not your "last known position"), adding additional environmental effects, spreading environmental effects, additional or more intense debuffs.

But is it something you see creativerse needs? That's what i am curious about, i see alot of people complain about games that it is to easy and i don't peak their interest.
Let's just trow away the fact that most people mistake themselves that the game they bought isn't what they hoped for (like a person expecting COD buying this game hoping its the same) but what i want to know is the people that know what this game is about and still like challenges.

I know it maybe confusing here, i was never good at choosing the right words to express my self, but it all comes down to "if there are people that find this game too easy, then what is the difficulty they seek?" And not how can the devs make the game more difficult because making a game difficult is easy, you die and its game over, world gone try again.

[The Hat]

Then your question depends on your (or rather the devs) design philosophy Xent.
Does anything 'need' something else, often no. Does it benefit, that depends on your aim or goals.

Needs, needs definition, if you'll excuse the pun.

Does creativerse need to appeal to a wide spectrum of people yes/no
How wide?
How many options do you want people to have for gameplay?
How much time do you have or want to spend to code those options. - Simple solutions yes/no

Focusing in on mobs or survival specific.
Do you want to appeal to the survivalists yes/no
Do you want to appeal people who like PVE Coop or Singleplayer yes/no

Focusing in on challenges.
Do layer specific challenges add replay value, and fun. Yes/No

If you want my opinion, they might as well add survival elements as optional, it fits the genre, its not a big stretch for the systems, audience or fanbase already in place. PVE bosses and a difficulty setting, while requiring work, its not going to be reinventing the wheel.

Stuck at work again, wish I was playing instead of theorising :D

[Eveaustria]

Good questions, The Hat :)

Q: Does Creativerse need to appeal to a wide spectrum of people/players?
A: YESYESYES :D

Q: How wide?
A: Creativerse needs paying players who will spend money for this game either monthly or at least every 6-12 month (for new extensions like new worlds to access by portals, made of new blocks with new mobs and an awful lot of new crafting-recipes, but no additional game-mechanics)

Limits to that: in my personal opinion, Playful should try their best to make Creativerse UN-attractive for griefers, because all ages (and families) should be able to enjoy the game

My suggestions for that would be:
* setting everyone to "visitor" at default
* no world-creation without passwords that are long and "secure" enough
* explaining admin-rights ingame to world-owners (in the "options")
* implementing land-claims / protective energy-shields for large areas (for example by default around the touchstone of world-owners and around the touchstones of everyone that the owner permits protection plus lockable doors) so at least your main buildings cannot be destroyed/changed by others. Each area should be a bit larger than the size of the largest buildings that you can build by using blueprints

Q: How many options do you want people to have for gameplay?
A: as many as possible, in time of course. At least a creative-mode and a hard(core)-mode should be implemented one after another, then more and more options should be made customizable that world-owners should then be able to "set" themselves (thinking Don't Starve and Minecraft at world-creation for example)

Q: Simple solutions yes/no & How much time do you have or want to spend to code those options
A: both.
There should be standard-modes to choose from plus advanced options to set for each of these modes. Beginners will surely be content with just choosing a standard-mode ("adventure", "creative", "hard(core)", maybe also a "story-mode" in the far future) at first and after gaining experience they will then want to take their time creating new "customized" worlds

Q: Focusing in on mobs or survival specific & Do you want to appeal to the survivalists & Focusing in on challenges.
A: an optional hard(core)-mode should focus both on survival and fighting.

Still also the "adventure-mode" needs more challenges I believe (and higher tier necessaries too so adventure-type-players will play this game for a much longer time), like:

* more boss-mobs (giant Rockzilla-type-bosses for ALL mob-types) to be called by building different altars
* more rare stuff to search for (like treasure-hunts and/or boss-loot needed to craft higher-tier-armor-sets with built-in resistances and weapons with elemental damage)
* quest-"like" features like blueprints that will give players certain (unique) rewards when they are completed properly

Of course all of this can be implemented both into "adventure"-mode and "hard(core)-mode" (also into an optional future "story-mode"), and can be made more difficult in "hard(core)" by simply making fights and/or environmental challenges harder to survive

Q: Do you want to appeal people who like PVE Coop or Singleplayer
A: Creativerse already appeals to solo players, PVE-coop-players and also to PVPers. So all of these should get more and more love in time. In my opinion PVPers should be kept in rein though, so they won't turn into griefers and will not make other players stop playing (and paying) because of griefing...

Q: Do layer specific challenges add replay value, and fun. Yes/No
A: what do you mean exactly by "layer specific challenges" ?

I've once suggested different kinds of spawning micro-dungeons (avoiding to surround player-made structures like teleporters) that would be specifically designed for each biome or layer; like Trog-nests in canyons, Hot Feet-lava-pools in the lava-layer, ruins in the corruption-layer inhabited by Things etc. - all with some special blocks/materials/findings inside and guarded by a lot of mobs. I'd suggest this for the "adventure"-mode as well as for the "hard(core-)mode" and "story-mode". The only real difference would be that surviving in these dungeons will be harder in "hard(core)"

Of course I am aware that all of these suggestions, modes and options will take a lot of time to be implemented. I am patient and do not insist on any suggestion of mine to be considered. I am looking forward to what the developers themselves will come up with :)

[xent]

Originally posted by Eveaustria:

My suggestions for that would be:
* setting everyone to "visitor" at default
* no world-creation without passwords that are long and "secure" enough
* explaining admin-rights ingame to world-owners (in the "options")
* implementing land-claims / protective energy-shields for large areas (for example by default around the touchstone of world-owners and around the touchstones of everyone that the owner permits protection plus lockable doors) so at least your main buildings cannot be destroyed/changed by others. Each area should be a bit larger than the size of the largest buildings that you can build by using blueprints

There all good suggestions with the exception of Land-claims, I played a game that had that and it was over abused. Still people have to remember, Grievers will grief no matter what you do, or how well devs try to protect you against it.

That said more Admin option are needed so grievers can be found out with much more easily and reported on the community pages where a wall of shame can be created. Yes iam not a big fan of these things but i think if a griever is willing to go to so much lengths to destroy other peoples worlds then i think they need there own wall to hang on, and if its posible i want a wall where peoples accounts are linked so they can't simply change name and go at it again.

Of course i'm talking about the mayor offenders not the ones where a chest is empty or something like that because bugs or misunderstandings can happen.

[The Hat]

Nice suggestions Eveaustria :), pretty much thinking along the same lines for nearly all of that. Difficulty setting could have its own mobs, so you can disable some entirely, (like peaceful) or have 3 different versions easy, medium, hard mob types. That way you can tweak drops, health, damage etc to each game mode. Alternatively it could just influence spawn rate and % damage to armor/health of the player and mobs.

I like the micro dungeons, and pockets too, I recently put up a treasure 'pocket' or dungeon idea for example, some rare small cave you come across full of nice surprises, equally some you come across wouldn't be as welcoming :D

On Griefers:

Protectors, Big Protectors, Super Protectors.
Give a frame effect like the excavator does when selected. All blocks inside can have their permissions set by the protector at once (edit/delete/intereact) Build them into the roof of your pad, setup the permission, remove them, or leave them there to toggle things at will.

Server owner doesn't want them everywhere?
Toggle that only server owners or those with special permissions can build and/or place them.

Large server you'd contact an admin, they'd swing by and protect your creation, setting all blocks to editable by you only. Small server, the owner might give you one because its not going to matter as much. He can always craft a super version and undo any changes.

[Eveaustria]

Originally posted by The Hat:

Protectors, Big Protectors, Super Protectors.

Give a frame effect like the excavator does when selected. All blocks inside can have their permissions set by the protector at once (edit/delete/intereact) Build them into the roof of your pad, setup the permission, remove them, or leave them there to toggle things at will.

Server owner doesn't want them everywhere?
Toggle that only server owners or those with special permissions can build and/or place them.

Large server you'd contact an admin, they'd swing by and protect your creation, setting all blocks to editable by you only. Small server, the owner might give you one because its not going to matter as much. He can always craft a super version and undo any changes.

+1 to that :)

[AvilerED]

Originally posted by xent:

But is it something you see creativerse needs? That's what i am curious about, i see alot of people complain about games that it is to easy and i don't peak their interest.

For me personally? No, it doesn't need any of it. I'd like the mobs to be a little bit morte challenging, perhaps, but for the most part, no, I don't need it. But for Creativerse as a whole, to appeal to a wide variety of players, I do see some need for difficulty settings. But they need to be toggleable/customizeable to allow people to play how they want to play. Much like PVP and explozives are toggleable now, but more in depth.