grappling badly needs improvement

[FlamboyantMongoose]

i just finished star haven and can guess that the ice cave is the last place but the abysmal grappling implementation is no longer tolerable and kills an otherwise great game

it almost feels like a great deal of thought and effort was put into the game and then grappling was thrown in at the end of the development cycle after ten minutes of work

now as bad as the grappling physics are, they actually make it easier so i do not care about that
however, the fact that the depth perception during grappling is completely ambiguous makes every traversal total guesswork and luck while negating skill
running, jumping, and rocket boots all feel great and are well implemented
why not also grappling?

if it ever gets fixed i will totally return and finish this game

[HubHikari]

Grappling works fine for me. When you say depth perception is ambiguous, how exactly do you mean? If you mean you're having trouble seeing where objects line up in Z-space (one behind another, how far behind, etc), you can jump up and down and move left and right to see how the objects move. I also adjusted my FOV to 110, so you might try that -- it might help.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

i mean any object in direct line of sight
it is absurdly difficult to perceive its distance relative to yourself because 95% of the surroundings are sky
i didnt recall fov was in the options
my computer can definitely handle a higher fov so i should try that

[HubHikari]

Hmm. Maybe it was the FOV setting that helped me out, cause I never found myself wondering how far out an object is, but FOV *was* the first thing I changed. That's possibly it. Seeing more of the game world would necessarily help you to judge distance and parallax.

[redgrave2007]

second this
part before star haven village with three grapple and boost is just infernall, abysmal and should be obliterated with nuclear weapon
i hope there will be opportunity to slaughter all citizens and burn their corpses just for living in that place

[FlamboyantMongoose]

yeah maddie's challenge was the only fun part of the platforming in the game because it had NO GRAPPLING
you had to find a path forward and use actual functioning platforming mechanics (i.e. not grappling)
that was fun
the unthinking/luck-based platforming that is grappling is just onerous segments in between enjoyable parts of the game

[ExcessiveForce]

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

yeah maddie's challenge was the only fun part of the platforming in the game because it had NO GRAPPLING
you had to find a path forward and use actual functioning platforming mechanics (i.e. not grappling)
that was fun
the unthinking/luck-based platforming that is grappling is just onerous segments in between enjoyable parts of the game

I don't think it is luck-based at all. I just beat the game and didn't die too many times in the infamous ice cave level. I is not that hard when you improve your depth perception and reflexes. As HubHikari said, the ideal FOV for this game is around 100-110. The more you are able to see the better!
Also, try to avoid bumping into the flying rocks you grapple on. Losing momentum means certain death most of the time. But that makes sense, doesn't it? You will have to release at just the right moment to maintain a good amount of speed. That is the most important thing to learn in this game, otherwise your experience will be insanely frustrating. Also, use WASD in the air, too. It's easy to forget you have aircontrol in this game, because the last games that used this mechanic were released about 10 years ago...

[HubHikari]

Originally posted by STEAK0SAURUS:

...aircontrol...

Mention not the name of the beast!

No, but Steak's got it right. Bump your FOV (I personally can't play PC games with an FOV less than 100 nowadays; DXHR and Skyrim spoiled me), don't smack into the rocks (Try to grapple the side of the rock and sling yourself past it as you go. This will greatly help when rocks are rather distant from each other) and remember to use your WSAD in the air. You don't have a super great deal of control (i.e. you can't very well dial back your speed if you're overshooting [this is the primary source of frustration I had with Maddie's challenge]), but it's usually enough. If possible, also do conserve a grapple charge; that way, you can grapple the platform and pull yourself to it.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

yeah i am definitely upping the fov
and yeah i know you can move in the air unless you did the run'n jump thing
and i know how much that breaks physics but again: i dont care about how bad the physics are as long as i can acclimate myself to the engine (which i have/did)

[ExcessiveForce]

Originally posted by HubHikari:

Originally posted by STEAK0SAURUS:

...aircontrol...

Mention not the name of the beast!

^^

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

i dont care about how bad the physics are

What makes you think the physics are bad? These are not earth-physics. These are flying-rock-dimension-physics. Of course they are not easy to get used to. But if you are willing to learn a complex game mechanic, you can have a huge amount of fun with it.

[Gharren]

The grapple works more like a magnet than a rope, keep that in mind. You can't really swing around obstacles well, it's more about timing when to grapple and when to let go.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

Originally posted by STEAK0SAURUS:

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

i dont care about how bad the physics are

What makes you think the physics are bad? These are not earth-physics. These are flying-rock-dimension-physics. Of course they are not easy to get used to. But if you are willing to learn a complex game mechanic, you can have a huge amount of fun with it.

i should really clarify: it isnt that the physics are necessarily bad or poorly implemented because i guess they are neither
i found myself able to become accustomed/acclimated to them fairly quickly
what i really mean is the physics are super unrealistic
even someone whose sole physics education is a high school course knows this game breaks conservation of momentum
and that is just the starting point

Originally posted by Gharren-chan:

The grapple works more like a magnet than a rope, keep that in mind. You can't really swing around obstacles well, it's more about timing when to grapple and when to let go.

that is a super good point



i think given this discussion something needs to be done about the fov option in the game
either the default needs to be upped or some sort of in-game documentation added

[HubHikari]

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

i think given this discussion something needs to be done about the fov option in the game
either the default needs to be upped or some sort of in-game documentation added

In-game documentation would honestly be a little redundant. FIeld-of-view is an established, well-understood concept. It refers to the maximum horizontal angle you can see; the higher the FOV, the more you can see around you.

[FlamboyantMongoose]

fov typically does not drastically affect gameplay though
it is typically understood as an aesthetic option

[ExcessiveForce]

Originally posted by FlamboyantMongoose:

fov typically does not drastically affect gameplay though
it is typically understood as an aesthetic option

Being able to see more is an advantage, objectively. That means having a higher FOV improves gameplay, while a lower FOV will always be a handicap.
FOV has nothing to do with aesthetics. Maybe, if we were talking about horror games, a lower FOV could add to the claustrophobic feel as it does in Dead Space, for example. But that doesn't change the fact that it hinders your ability to see your surroundings (and enemies), therefore having a huge effect on your gameplay experience.
A higher FOV allows you to see stuff earlier, without even having to move your mouse. That becomes especially important in competitive games, where being able to see your enemies sooner will greatly increase your chances of survival.
Higher is better. Always was, always will be. Calling FOV an "aesthetic choice" is like saying "we chose 30FPS to make our game more 'cinematic' because 60 looks fake". That's utter nonsense. Please don't listen to whoever said that.

[harrisonosirrah]

Originally posted by Gharren-chan:

The grapple works more like a magnet than a rope, keep that in mind. You can't really swing around obstacles well, it's more about timing when to grapple and when to let go.

I feel like swinging would've been more fun and less cumbersome. But I guess this grapple is cool for what it is.