Damage % scaling based on the level of weapon and level of character rather than a fixed scale %

[Karma]

so higher level weapons have a weaker damage scale then lower level weapons, this would balance out the damage output on lower level weapons making them viable for pvp and allowing very unique builds for characters.

[ThatDarnDog]

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of getting new weapons? Am I missing something?

[TheNaughtyTerrorist]

its than* not then

[Karma]

Originally posted by ThatDarnDog:

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of getting new weapons? Am I missing something?

it would not! it would simply allow weapons that you started the game with (like wooden weapons) to have a higher damage scale compared to higher level weapons.

so if you have a level 6 scythe or hammer, it's damage scaling would allow it to do almost as much damage as level 22 great swords and hammers.

this is so lower level weapons are viable and it would help you mix up your loadout a bit further.

considering weapons will soon do elemental damage, it would be nice to be able to use other weapons without being limited by their damage output as much.

[Lesserred]

Originally posted by ThatDarnDog:

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of getting new weapons? Am I missing something?

You are not. This is a "give a mouse a cookie" situation if I've ever seen one.

[Ren]

Mental gymnastics aside, I'd expect endgame to be focused on horizontal progression. Weaker weapons will be replaced with high-level alternatives eventually.

[SEMER]

Game needs a upgrade system to make old stuff relevant. Would definitely take work to implement, but in long term it means the dev wouldn't have to spend as much time on making new weapons and gear that people are just gonna thrown away.

[Karma]

Originally posted by SEMER:

Game needs a upgrade system to make old stuff relevant. Would definitely take work to implement, but in long term it means the dev wouldn't have to spend as much time on making new weapons and gear that people are just gonna thrown away.

i thought about the upgrade system but it'd take too long to implement, that's where my whole idea came from regarding this

[snail pie]

Weapon vanity is coming in a later update, maybe, so you'll be able to keep the look rather than trying to come up with some absurdist notion of gameplay that voids the entire point of an RPG.

[jemYZX]

I agree with ThatDarnDog(I prefer DarnThatDog) on the matters of situation. I'd rather get new weapons then having a start weapon buff that is too OP breaking purpose of the games pace when really it's skipping the challenge all together.

More Weapons more respect for Kiseff. Also a catalog would be nice to shove stuff for amount of feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee(sorry for the e in fee).

[Ghoul Hunter]

This game follows a lot of old school game designs, like upward progressions and finding new better weapons. It's supposed to be like a 1998 game, you know? Trying to make everything equal and viable through power rationing, aka the customization era is more 2010. Anachronistic, I know.

That aside, I think there was talk of cosmetic weapon slots, wasn't there?

[ThatDarnDog]

Originally posted by Karma:

Originally posted by ThatDarnDog:

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of getting new weapons? Am I missing something?

it would not! it would simply allow weapons that you started the game with (like wooden weapons) to have a higher damage scale compared to higher level weapons.

so if you have a level 6 scythe or hammer, it's damage scaling would allow it to do almost as much damage as level 22 great swords and hammers.

this is so lower level weapons are viable and it would help you mix up your loadout a bit further.

considering weapons will soon do elemental damage, it would be nice to be able to use other weapons without being limited by their damage output as much.

It sure sounds like it would defeat the purpose of getting new weapons. Could there be a way to 'make it work' that didn't completely destroy the need to get new loot from dungeons? Maybe. But I could think of a dozen different ways this could go poorly and not many ways it could be made in a way that makes sense.

Right now the system is very functional and to the point. Very 'keep it simple, stupid'.

I won't say you're completely off base, though. The idea of elemental damage, and other stuff like that being locked at low levels could be seen as a demerit. But it seems to me that it makes more sense to add something like a feature to change the elemental type damage; or something like that, rather than just make low level weapons do the same damage as higher level weapons.

I'm not actually suggesting such a system. I'm simply pointing out that if you consider something like not having enough elemental damage variety as a 'problem', there are better ways of solving that problem than what you're suggesting.

Also, weapon vanity is coming, supposedly. So, if you want to keep that super cool looking scythe from low levels, that should be sorted if and when that system is added.

[Karma]

Originally posted by ThatDarnDog:

Originally posted by Karma:

it would not! it would simply allow weapons that you started the game with (like wooden weapons) to have a higher damage scale compared to higher level weapons.

so if you have a level 6 scythe or hammer, it's damage scaling would allow it to do almost as much damage as level 22 great swords and hammers.

this is so lower level weapons are viable and it would help you mix up your loadout a bit further.

considering weapons will soon do elemental damage, it would be nice to be able to use other weapons without being limited by their damage output as much.

It sure sounds like it would defeat the purpose of getting new weapons. Could there be a way to 'make it work' that didn't completely destroy the need to get new loot from dungeons? Maybe. But I could think of a dozen different ways this could go poorly and not many ways it could be made in a way that makes sense.

Right now the system is very functional and to the point. Very 'keep it simple, stupid'.

I won't say you're completely off base, though. The idea of elemental damage, and other stuff like that being locked at low levels could be seen as a demerit. But it seems to me that it makes more sense to add something like a feature to change the elemental type damage; or something like that, rather than just make low level weapons do the same damage as higher level weapons.

I'm not actually suggesting such a system. I'm simply pointing out that if you consider something like not having enough elemental damage variety as a 'problem', there are better ways of solving that problem than what you're suggesting.

Also, weapon vanity is coming, supposedly. So, if you want to keep that super cool looking scythe from low levels, that should be sorted if and when that system is added.

the vanity system only has one issue, that being elemental damage not really matching up.

i wanted to solve the issue of weapon variety by balancing out all the weapons into doing similar damage. (still favoring higher level weapons of course)

weapon vanity only keeps the issue, as yes you're using that level 6 scythe from catacombs but it does the same 110 earth damage as everyone else.

it doesn't really change much, combat would still be stale as ever, the only thing that would change are tactics.

[Goataro Kujo]

Originally posted by Karma:

Originally posted by ThatDarnDog:

It sure sounds like it would defeat the purpose of getting new weapons. Could there be a way to 'make it work' that didn't completely destroy the need to get new loot from dungeons? Maybe. But I could think of a dozen different ways this could go poorly and not many ways it could be made in a way that makes sense.

Right now the system is very functional and to the point. Very 'keep it simple, stupid'.

I won't say you're completely off base, though. The idea of elemental damage, and other stuff like that being locked at low levels could be seen as a demerit. But it seems to me that it makes more sense to add something like a feature to change the elemental type damage; or something like that, rather than just make low level weapons do the same damage as higher level weapons.

I'm not actually suggesting such a system. I'm simply pointing out that if you consider something like not having enough elemental damage variety as a 'problem', there are better ways of solving that problem than what you're suggesting.

Also, weapon vanity is coming, supposedly. So, if you want to keep that super cool looking scythe from low levels, that should be sorted if and when that system is added.

the vanity system only has one issue, that being elemental damage not really matching up.

i wanted to solve the issue of weapon variety by balancing out all the weapons into doing similar damage. (still favoring higher level weapons of course)

weapon vanity only keeps the issue, as yes you're using that level 6 scythe from catacombs but it does the same 110 earth damage as everyone else.

it doesn't really change much, combat would still be stale as ever, the only thing that would change are tactics.

Atlyss is primarily a PvE game at the end of the day. This means the game prioritizes weapon progression over weapon variety. For as much as I enjoy PvP, it's a niche aspect of a relatively niche game focused on PvE. It doesn't really bother me that everyone is bringing top level minmaxed gear to the arena. It takes getting to max level and minmaxing your character before you're at the skill level to start trying out PvP. Even then, there's still a learning curve and a bit of teaching necessary to start winning fights. For how small the community is, weapon variety isn't really necessary.

I also kinda like how each new weapon addition heavily changes the PvP landscape. Over the summer and fall, everyone was spinning around with swords since the Valdur blade was the highest level weapon in the game. Nowadays, you see a combination of Voalstark, Fier Blade, Folly Cannon, Torrentius Longbow, and Ryzer Greataxes around. It keeps the PvP landscape interesting after each update, although it has shaken things up before.

[Dakota]

honestly, main reason for weapon scaling would just be the elemental damage types once the next patch drops with more elemental scaling stuff and resistances and such coming in.

[Karma]

Originally posted by Goataro Kujo:

Originally posted by Karma:

the vanity system only has one issue, that being elemental damage not really matching up.

i wanted to solve the issue of weapon variety by balancing out all the weapons into doing similar damage. (still favoring higher level weapons of course)

weapon vanity only keeps the issue, as yes you're using that level 6 scythe from catacombs but it does the same 110 earth damage as everyone else.

it doesn't really change much, combat would still be stale as ever, the only thing that would change are tactics.

Atlyss is primarily a PvE game at the end of the day. This means the game prioritizes weapon progression over weapon variety. For as much as I enjoy PvP, it's a niche aspect of a relatively niche game focused on PvE. It doesn't really bother me that everyone is bringing top level minmaxed gear to the arena. It takes getting to max level and minmaxing your character before you're at the skill level to start trying out PvP. Even then, there's still a learning curve and a bit of teaching necessary to start winning fights. For how small the community is, weapon variety isn't really necessary.

I also kinda like how each new weapon addition heavily changes the PvP landscape. Over the summer and fall, everyone was spinning around with swords since the Valdur blade was the highest level weapon in the game. Nowadays, you see a combination of Voalstark, Fier Blade, Folly Cannon, Torrentius Longbow, and Ryzer Greataxes around. It keeps the PvP landscape interesting after each update, although it has shaken things up before.

i do understand that atlyss is a pve game, even if pvp is not the main reason i play.

it's comical when everyone above level 26 is using the voalstark wand in crescent grove and bularr, and their forced into doing so because of it's dps and wide magic attack.


the gap between the enemies and you becomes so large you're forced into switching to higher level weapons just so you can quickly keep grinding for xp.

if you don't it can become exhausting grinding because of how long you have to fight through every round of grove, of course the weapon scaling wouldn't really effect this aspect of pve.

the weapon damage scaling would only have a more noticable effect after you've reached the more higher player levels, it's not supposed to make the higher level weapon obsolete.

it's supposed to shrink the damage gap between early game weapons, so people in pvp can have more options to fight with then what currently exists.

this doesn't mean that early game weapons will become op, it'll just make them more viable late game at the cost of 5 - 15 less max damage than your higher level weapons.

i'm not trying to upset the current game balance that exists, i'm trying to improve it for both pve and pvp without a very over complicated method.

factoring what the next update may bring i don't want to leave all the early game weapons with untapped potential.