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Discussions Rules and Guidelines
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I think the only real problem I have with this game (beyond rare instances of insanely bad RNG), is when you just start - it seems impossible to beat as your units get scuffed up pretty quick and it seems like you can get soft-locked easy (all unit spots taken and most healing).
Once you think more about it like a rogue-like with RTS elements vs the other way around, it is a bit more enjoyable. I mean, sure having all your troops die sucks, but if you where struggling along, maybe it's better to take what you learned and start a new campaign.
My first one didn't even fully conclude in death - once my commander blew himself up with a buff spell, I was like "NOPE" and swapped right into Skaven and been rocking it with the Globadier + poison stuff. Granted my lord are rats bad at climbing or descending (even with a 60% chance one failed a climb check 2x
Oh - and there is a mod for "fixing" some stuff out there still I believe, but you do need to join a Discord to get it.
You are entitled to that viewpoint. I will defend your right to say it, and it is not above reproach or criticism, even players who have played it a long time, wished many things had been executed better. but consider three things.
1. Very easy to pooh on something when its not your work. You did not put in the hours or time. This was this developer's first project and sometimes when its your first time, you make bad decisions. The Engine they chose, the programming, the execution to the time construct you give your employees, dlc calls, etx. This is Games Workshop, and they don't play. They are very strict and very demanding. Heck Marvel is easier to deal with.
2. Its a 10 year old game, in fact older, since they started developing prior to release long before that. Its a huge money investment to create any game, but 10 years, a lot of improvements to AI, engines, visuals, and what are you comparing it to.
This was in my opinion the first Third Person Turn Based game ever done that put YOU in the action instead of the same boring isometric bs they have done for 40 years. No one has built on that idea. No-one.
Isometric is not some innovative creation. Its a hybrid of a TABLE TOP game. You are playing a table top with dice, and an action creation of the Mordheim Table Top Game rules. They just didn't take it literal or far enough. I am sure they wanted to do, Vampire bites and conversions, add way more customization to these characters, had many more animated battle sequences. Games are only as good as the creators who do them within the time period allowed in development. 10 years ago the costs of making a game were much higher.
Here is the rulebook, see for yourself. A move and action for each ability.
https://gurth.home.xs4all.nl/mordheim/Mordheim%20Living%20Rulebook.pdf
and many complained it was not literal enough. That they added things traditionalists did not like, but its an action game. You want table top, go play on your fake Mordheim city and play pretend all you wish. Its either one or the other. Go sit a play with miniatures, who also have a very passionate fan-base.
This was truly a game of atmosphere, I will say it again, when your on that battlefield, scope around, the climbing, the jumping, the wonderful work they did for that time.
Can you imagine what they could do now with the Real Engine, and with proper smart game creators. So when you say Unfair, there are mods out that can create level of play. Its an IRONMAN game, what are you attached to here? Its not real.
There are two type of players in warband, affiliation constructs. One that get very attached to their pieces and characters and do not want them harm under any condition, and others who play them unattached to such things. Its all an illusion people.
3. I truly think with respect, people do not think before they type now. Everything is gacha tags, and one word bs lines. The game is practically free on Steam sales.
I will tell you a fast story I just saw at this year's GDC. A classic old video game, a school team took, and created a better new version of it. They added stories, action, vast mod options, they took it to another level. I am not going to mention the game, but they walked up to the original game developers and publishers and simply said, Let us show you what we did and guess what within 4 months, they decided to make a new version of that game and hired those kids. Sometimes that is what it takes.
How would you make Mordheim better. Would you have the Vampire clan actually act like Vampires, would you have your own story film element to that clan, add more of what that brilliant flash movie intro promised. The corruption of a Sister, the betrayal of a Priest, or a Witch Hunter go insane. How many BIO stories did you create when you created a character. See, Mordheim the video game, gave your the tip of that world. A better base game with dozens of additional story dlcs that fit that intro, that style, that world. That goes way, way beyond a table top.
How complex would YOU make a warband game, of chess on a board. What sizes of warband are enough for you, what skills did they not go far enough with. Would you simply make all hits viable, see, not so easy.
Take the Captain of the Mercenaries, you can have over 60 active skills alone, 60, with animation to most, and you think that is easy to do. I did not get to passives, or weapon skills and animations and that is just ONE character. People wanted expansions, bring in the Orcs, Elves, Lizardmen, heck some not even in the table top, make it up, they don't care. How much more complex would you make your creation and then talk to me about, crap.
You see my point here. Mordheim merely scratched the surface of a very complex world, and they simply ran out of time within the constraints of a business partnership for profit.
You get a few years that is it, and its next. What do you think is fair for 40.00 for a massive game.
So when you do a toxic deliberate tread like this, and are so dismissive of something, shows you know nothing of gaming, or the dedicated passionate people who work lifetimes doing them.
To be fair, AI generators are advancing so much that jobs are being lost, people are losing their livelihoods, its all point, point click today. Modelers, Writers, Setting, Concept Artists are being replaced by AI
Yeah I will defend your right to be a gas-lighter, but how small you look when you do it.
This is an OLD game and the community want a new one.
"show me the money" as they say, Good luck with that. Peace
Its 10 years now.
I can't criticise a game because they tried really really hard and it was actually James Workshop's fault in the end?
Come on dude I don't care if it was their first game, it was still ♥♥♥♥. They had no idea what they were doing and I don't know if it was a case of trying to do too much and not achieving anything but their game really hasn't ticked any box that they set out to:.
Combat is garbage and repetitive. You can try sell it a rogue lite but that is just a cop out to try explain away its shortcomings. You talk about character complexity and animation variation but that means nothing when every combat boils down to having as many units as you can surround an enemy and hope that the RNG doesn't destroy you. I play MTG, I understand Variance and this is not variance. This is lazy programming
And lazy programming it is. They didn't try to find creative solutions to the problems the game had. They didn't come up with a computer that was an interesting experience to play against. They let it reset its warband every fight, always better and more leveled than yours. See what I mean about no variance? IF it was true variance then the computer should be randomly getting injuries to warbands, lower levels, some sort of issues to make the game flavourful and engaging. Instead they went the lazy route because, checks notes, "you can have over 60 active skills alone". Respectfully who gives a flying ♥♥♥♥ if the core mechanics of the game suck ass.
And if you're saying that 2015 was sooooooo long ago and they were limited by the time, just a reminder that successful games like Kerbal Space Program and Rocket League came out in 2015. And I choose those to show that there were great physics and computer engines then Mordheim's devs were just too crap to use them. Also RL shows that there was a market for long term multiplayer out there, Mordheim was just too crap for people to want to play it against each other. And again, you want another game released in 2015, Vermintide. Now how was that for a release back in the ancient, black white days of.....2015. It was made properly and it led into a sequel
I played original Mordheim with paper and dice, I am a big fan of the Warhammer Fantasy Universe, I understand how James Workshop works with devs and how they tier their games and the expectations they have from different developers depending on whether the game is AAA or not. So don't talk to me like I'm some potato who throwing ♥♥♥♥ at the wall to see if it sticks
Every single one of your points is wrong and I have no idea why you're trying to defend a game that is just bad, a disappointment and a slap in the face of people who actually enjoyed the real Mordheim.
I'm complaining because it's a piece of ♥♥♥♥. I said unfair once, so what I'm bad. Or yes let's ignore everything else I said about it. But whatever, I'm sure this made you feel like a big boy so good for you
I don't know why you so vociferously come after me when this game is an actual dumpster fire. Did the two of you actually on this game? Because that would be hilarious and satisfying XD
You can have all the opinions about the looks of my wife your want, I can even (silently) agree to a point. But I can't phantom why you want to share those opinions with me and keep on doing so.
I love playing MCotD and I love my wife. Did so then and expect to keep on doing. Please go and find your own acquired taste somewhere else. Hope you'll be as lucky as I am.
2015 was sooooooo long ago and they were limited by the time, just a reminder that successful games like Kerbal Space Program and Rocket League came out in 2015. And I choose those to show that there were great physics and computer engines then Mordheim's devs were just too crap to use them. Also RL shows that there was a market for long term multiplayer out there, Mordheim was just too crap for people to want to play it against each other. And again, you want another game released in 2015, Vermintide. Now how was that for a release back in the ancient, black white days of.....2015. It was made properly and it led into a sequel
Answer: MTG is not Mordheim, I too have played the table top and again this was the first Third person turn based game ever attempted. That is what sold Workshop on the presentation, to put the player into the action. Its not what you said, its how you said it. Its like listening to a person trash an comic artist as crap without understanding the fundamentals of drawing, perspectives, contrast, anatomy, color implementation. Just he is trash and this and that is not a constructive criticism, its just trash talk. I was also very clear. I will defend your right to do it.
I played original Mordheim with paper and dice, I am a big fan of the Warhammer Fantasy Universe, I understand how James Workshop works with devs and how they tier their games and the expectations they have from different developers depending on whether the game is AAA or not. So don't talk to me like I'm some potato who throwing ♥♥♥♥ at the wall to see if it sticks.
Answer: First, it is you who are being patronizing to this community, not I. You like trash talking, but don't you dare have a civil conversation with me. I think you are miss-reading my tone. No where did I call you names, no where did I say you cannot like something. Not playing this back and forth childish game. I was also very clear I had issues with Rogue Nations, both games, Mordheim, and Necro, but I appreciated the effort. I can be critical and respectful to those who worked 16 hour days to make something and there is a long list of many flawed games including the ones you mentioned that inspire better.
Every single one of your points is wrong and I have no idea why you're trying to defend a game that is just bad, a disappointment and a slap in the face of people who actually enjoyed the real Mordheim.
Answer: You have no clue what I am talking about then. I did this for 40 years. I have three published games. I understand the hard work it takes. That is my private affair. Again, it was not a slap in the face. Mordheim table top players may have wanted a more exact version of a board, sitting over miniatures, playing to the exact rule book, just fine. Okay, then do that.
There are plenty who play both. Plenty. I think RN is a very flawed game developer for hire. Necro was far worse and I think GW is done with RN, and I do hope they find a solid developer to continue Mordheim, maybe give you the version you wish for, but you can say that without trashing people. That would have made a much better topic, than doing this. Para did a nice mod for this game, try that, otherwise play something else.
Peace
Personally - I love this title so far as, while difficult, when I beat those 2 missions the other day without having anyone die, and only 1 injury, both times also being a combat route of the enemy, it is extremely satisfying to beat what you claim to be "unfair". As I mentioned, RNG is something I cannot lie about being anything less than often in the enemies favor, but you are also not meant to beat the entire game with your first set of units (or Band even - but your 2nd or 3rd band).
TBH - if your mentality is "so what I am bad", then this isn't the game for you, as - ironically similar to souls titles, you either pick-up what the game puts down, or get filtered. The exception is when the game is also rated poorly by the community over time (no - not recently as the older a game is the more people will compare it to new better ones, even if unknowingly); which this title has "Mostly Positive" as those people are who this title (today) continues to stand for.
Otherwise - feel free to try it/older games out, but don't let the Skaven slap your ass on your way out... they got dirty fingers
Yes I proudly own the game...my achievements can be seen. I do not hide behind private locked librairies so I can easily gaslight a community without due inspection...or did you not think I would check before posting my original comments?
I think you may have marital issues that are Freud-ing their way into this XD
The comment I was responding to was saying that the was game made in 2015 and it was a long time so they were limited to the tools they had at the time, i pointed out that in fact the tools they had were fine since other good games were made but the devs were just crap
Your metaphor would be more accurate if your wives were made by the devs and when they were made, your wife had her arms where her legs should, 1 finger on each hand and 15 genetic disorders because whoever created her was crap. Your wife and Nicole Kidman (for the sake of this metaphor, no insult to your wife) were not created equal to start with and now in 2025 you're keeping your wife (mordheim) in the basement because she drools everywhere and is about to die from Huntingtons
Sorry pal your metaphor was wrong
ah ok I see now why you're up in arms. Either you did really work on this or defending it out of misplaced loyalty. It's odd
They tried their best I'm sure but the game is still crap. If I gave an easel to a child and they spent 16 hours a day on a piece of art it would still be crap.
Also you can't Gatekeep criticism because I don't have a PHD in whatever I'm criticising. I bet you've had plenty to say about things in fields that you don't have supposedly 40 years in. So that's disingenuous and rubbish
Look if you did work on Mordheim, shame. It sucks. You ruined the game with a premise that might have been good if you knew what you were doing. The game looks like they didn't have a Project Manager or theirs was crap because there was nobody looking at the game as it all came together realising that you can just put a bunch of knitted wool together and call it a jumper. Or there was zero playtesting.
Either way, time has shown this game to be garbage and vindicated me