Chaos players some tips?

[Spooky]

Hi all so before I start I should say I have some background with this as well as the table top and traditionally I do really well with skaven, but I love chaos they were my army for 40k table top and I think the mutations seem like a fun thing to work with. But every time I play them I'm just getting destroyed. Is it because I'm in thinking in the wrong mindset? I'm used to going with mostly cloth and being slightly spread out, as well as it seems impossible to hit with anything below 85% chance.

[Greybush]

Do not spread out in early ranks.
In anything other than Normal difficulty, your troops are not strong enough to reliably handle a 1vs1, let alone a 1vs2.
Without the skills and gear, you need to rely on numbers and focused targeting.

Cloth is best at early ranks, because you'll usually start off with a much better Dodge chance than Parry.

[bluto]

Mordheim, in general, keeping your squad quite close together. Fights that are two on one (or better three on one or 4 on one) leave the one far less time to inflict damage on the three and occasionally spawn free hits from everyone surrounding or the one not being able to do much for a turn. Even when the fight becomes more even, the group that got more people there first can usually finish off the one pretty quickly and in many cases turn and win handily when it's three on two.

Cloth pairs well with two handed weapons (most of which only allow dodge stances anyway) heavy armor pairs well with shields and other parry stance items. Be careful not to charge with 5 offensive point characters armed with two/great weapons, as they will only get one attack, but charging is fine if they have a one hander and shield.

I haven't played Skaven, but they seem faster than other foes when I play them so perhaps you need to bunch up your Cult more as they aren't able to reach engagements soon enough (while Skaven mostly could)?

Dark Souls are the backbone of the early Cult band, they don't break (so can go two solid turns against just about anything) and can dish out lots of damage if they hit with their great axes. I'd keep them with two handers until they get their 4th offensive point/red pill and can attack twice with a 1-hand weapon.

I personally wait to recruit Bretheren until I can recruit veterans (ideally already at level 3) once they can shoot twice in a turn they're quite strong, but before then their bows are a significant limit on their damage output (Mercs ranged troops have access to stronger single shot weapons that allow their early one shot to be a meaningful contribution to the battle). If you want to play the odds, your possessed can effectively use a bow from the start (but a hand mutation is going to end their ranged career).

I personally stick a great weapon in my Magister's hands for the first few levels, but once he reaches the level (maybe 3) where he gets a second spell, he can be a powerful caster boosting his own units and using Chains of Chaos to greatly limit what an enemy's powerful units can do.

[crimsonsun]

Dark Souls suck at hitting so make those odd occasions they do count, I'd run with a majority of dual weilds and the odd great weapon, however I feel the adapatability of cultists in terms of being able to disengage and skirmish is more effective overall so I'd lean with a majority of cultist henchman backed up by dark souls. Light Armour on the dark souls and cloth/light on the cultists is where I'd go as well. Without high weapon skill your better off building for dodge instead (especially with the cultists - who can single weild one handed weapons for the dodge bonus) when not using ranged.

Mutants your scout/strike capable skirmisher (all warbands have one but they are very different in specialities) these guys make amazing archers but a Arm mutation will ruin that build instantly so unless your buying a high ranked replacement I'd avoid building that way. Scouting skills are all about getting bonus movement or saving SP each turn, which should be built along side critical hit chance stacking (as thats there free passive wyrd stone skill) hit guys engaged by henchies finished them then get out to safety.

Leader: Two good options first is full support character, leadership skills with buffing/debuffing magic mixed in to support your combat engagements (making enemies easier to hit while improving your guys survival) this is the build I'd recomend at least on your primary leader. A solid secondary build for the magister (you could build a leader from another hero but it would mean no magic) is a combat caster, acid breath/spray, combos wonderfully with melee combat buffed by weapons, with word of pain thrown in for good measure. You need to build High Weapon skill &/or Agility with Web of Steel or Step Aside being vital the the overall effectiveness. Its a brutal build but a dangerous role for a leader.

Possesses: Massive Critical Damage based builds take passives for improving critical damage, with actives for generating bit criticial strikes. Build a dodge or weaponskill focus for defence and use as your Hitmen. Take a secondary focus in leadership based skills to really maximise your fear effects and build upon your psychological advantages.

Norse: Big Two Weapon/Dual Strike damage dealers or multi purpose combat fighters they can really stack massive strikes up or they do the full melee resistance with counter attacking build well... Mix as you will.

Spawn - TANK - TANK - TANK immense agility making dodge easily in excess of 100% combined with side step mastery for defence, then increase speed, charge range, add in leadership abilities and build for hitting hard with stackable passives and actives for things like adrenaline rush.. This guys IMMUNE to any injury other than death so just SEND it in for maximum disruption and carnage, support with Leader and back up with henchies heroes (never send anyone unsupported).

Overall Chaos are all about brute force being able to hit harder at a sustainable level than anyone else and psychology which is a huge part of your defence (fear -30% to hit, Terror lose 3op/sp!!) hit hard, hit focused, cripple, demoralise, corrupt!

[crimsonsun]

Word of Warning regarding Chains of Chaos - Its a HIGH level spell, without Channelling Mastery and a Purple Staff you'll miscast often and curse yourself every other attempt. Honestly at low levels stick to low level spells, when you become a Master Wizard at ranks 7-10 you can cast as you please but early on, seriously just NO!

[nithon]

This is how i build my chaos warband and it might give you some ideas:

http://imgur.com/a/BuWt0

Just some info:
- I'm not super happy with my darksouls / possessed / marauders but i wanted to test some Masteries to see if i like them
- For possessed instead of the Strong Blow/Blood offering i found Attracting Lure way better and you can do the sequence Attack (2OP), Attack(3OP), Lure (2OP). So my go-to Possessed Build for rank 6 would be: Sidestep, Avoid, Attracting Lure + optional supporting Skill (Insult/ Anticipation/ Awareness /Quick Incission/...)
- I want to try 2h dark souls but i always end up with parry tanks ..

[Spooky]

Alright thanks guys I don't normally have trouble in the early game and I can usually clear up to brutal until around rank 3 or 4 I think it's because I was treating the leader improperly and I wanted the mutant to tank along with the fact that I'm used to lots of mobility and high initiative so I could rely on moving more freely and covering much more of the map without being worried about getting caught in a 1v1 or 1v2.

[crimsonsun]

Best mutant build has to be quick leap, wall runner, evolution mastery, introspection mastery for.. Infinate OP & SP generation..

[zhukodim]

Originally posted by crimsonsun:

Best mutant build has to be quick leap, wall runner, evolution mastery, introspection mastery for.. Infinate OP & SP generation..

Has to be where? In the beta stage of the game where even every henchmen had 10 level, all purple items with perfect enchants, with used tomes etc, without any injures at all?

You also wrote that you want to start some true Mordheim games. I mean compaigns. I think it's time to forget about those magic times and non-working builds for games with injures and progression. xD

[crimsonsun]

Originally posted by zhukodim:

Originally posted by crimsonsun:

Best mutant build has to be quick leap, wall runner, evolution mastery, introspection mastery for.. Infinate OP & SP generation..

Has to be where? In the beta stage of the game where even every henchmen had 10 level, all purple items with perfect enchants, with used tomes etc, without any injures at all?

You also wrote that you want to start some true Mordheim games. I mean compaigns. I think it's time to forget about those magic times and non-working builds for games with injures and progression. xD

I wasn't being serious.. I don't actually even play chaos :p Its awful and broken, Injuries/lack of rank 10 builds in PvP I'm not convinced in fact I'm positive warbands will still develop (as they should) its just going to take longer.. Though your welcome to try and prove me wrong.

[zhukodim]

Well maybe warbands will develop. But sometimes I like to test my dudes in 1v3 fights etc. Vs AI I mean. And seems like injure rate is quite high. For examle I had 6 level Mercs leader and he died. It was his 1 injure test. Had many Bad injures after just crits on others characters.

I think it would be a looot harder to develop dudes. In fact i think 2-3 high level per full warband if lucky.

[crimsonsun]

Without a doubt there will be a difference between levelling them and maintaining that level, though Warbands should still be able to earn even if they can't farm wins constantly, it will just reinforce the need to scavange opposed to kill, kill, kill plus objectives by bare minimum requiremnts we have against the AI currently. I do feel your right though that not only will development take far longer but perfect rank ten warbands will be extremely rare but rank 10 fighters less so. :D

[zhukodim]

Yep, right. Im also thinking about developing progress in MP.
Well vs AI it is easy coz those objectives. But in MP? Seems like the only thing to gain xp would be kills and survives. Maybe better to have some settings for those objectives in MP.
Coz, realy with secondary objectives games are fun but right now i cant see how you can comlete them in MP at all.

Well maybe Marked with death can be comleted sometimes. But Rush wierdstone would be close to impossible IMHO. Crush they will even harder.

[Spooky]

They could always add objectives that earn you points and add that you get points for killing certain enemies and such and whoever has the most win? I feel right now for leveling it seems too focused on bonus objectives because your entire warband gets 3 xp just for doing which is basically 3 kills for free.

[Dabbart]

I'm currently playing a rank 3 chaos WB, it's very fun. I have my leader with bow buffs, 2 mutatns with bows and mace, and 2 darksouls parry/melee resistance.

I got lucky, 1 mutant has clawed feet and other has thousand eyes. I let the darksouls soak up the enemy charges, and sit back and turn everyone into pincushions. I can focus down 1 character per round simple with ranged.

Currently planning to ditch the leader, since I dislike the magic in MH, make a marauder leader(hire rank & from vet), and run another maruaders parry builds, 2 mutants dodge/bow, 1 darksoul with Lads got Talent parry build, and a small army of cannon fodder.

I also have a max rank merc WB that I run 100% melee, 1 dodger, and 4 max parry builds...

[Breadsmith]

Originally posted by __:

Currently planning to ditch the leader, since I dislike the magic in MH, make a marauder leader(hire rank & from vet), and run another maruaders parry builds, 2 mutants dodge/bow, 1 darksoul with Lads got Talent parry build, and a small army of cannon fodder.

Sorry to dissapoint, but only Possessed can become leaders right now.