Sister's Matriarch Skills - I'm lost now

[spaceweezle]

I went into this with the intention of making her a very robust Parry melee, front-liner, however, I'm running short on skill slots.

I would really like to give her Hardy given that she is innately tanky, but if I do this, I'm going to really gimp my parry build. In fact I'm having second thoughts all together about the parry build itself.

She's at 71% Parry, And in 8 missions she hasn't parried once. I don't know what's up with that, as I've never tried a Parry build before.

I figure it won't be effective at all with at least these skills:

Flash Parry - (already has this)
Shield Specialization
Retaliation
Knowledge-Tactics

But man I want/need Hardy! What to do ... What to do!

[MrPyro]

I assume you're getting the Mastered versions of these skills to get the maximum boost from them, and you have maxed your weapon skill as far as possible?

Retaliation is good but you might be able to skip it as the matriarch has a high WS and therefore will often hit anyway (+20% never hurts, though!)

Parry is slightly harder than Dodge as most melee characters tend to boost the stat that allows Parry bypass (Str) and a few enemies just ignore it altogether (Rat Ogre, Chaos Spawn, Possessed, certain mutants).

You're only talking about your passives here, but I assume you're going for Web of Steel as an active as well.

If you want tanky you could also look at mastering Armour Proficient and then fitting her in heavy armour (I know, giving you more skills now and not helping).

I'd probably skip Knowledge: Tactics as the boost to parry is only modest, and instead to find a good shield (blue and purple shields give better parry mods than white, and there may be shield enchants that boost parry, can't remember)

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by MrPyro:

I assume you're getting the Mastered versions of these skills to get the maximum boost from them, and you have maxed your weapon skill as far as possible?

Retaliation is good but you might be able to skip it as the matriarch has a high WS and therefore will often hit anyway (+20% never hurts, though!)

Parry is slightly harder than Dodge as most melee characters tend to boost the stat that allows Parry bypass (Str) and a few enemies just ignore it altogether (Rat Ogre, Chaos Spawn, Possessed, certain mutants).

You're only talking about your passives here, but I assume you're going for Web of Steel as an active as well.

If you want tanky you could also look at mastering Armour Proficient and then fitting her in heavy armour (I know, giving you more skills now and not helping).

I'd probably skip Knowledge: Tactics as the boost to parry is only modest, and instead to find a good shield (blue and purple shields give better parry mods than white, and there may be shield enchants that boost parry, can't remember)

I have not mastered anything yet, as it's pretty early in the campaign. But yes, she already has Web of Steel.

I forgot that Strength bypasses Parry, but am aware of the fact some guys can ignore it. I figure I'll let my Impressive tank those types of enemies (when I get her)

I've been considering Heavy armor on her for a while now. Our contact was nice enough to make us a shiny blue piece of heavy but I cannot have her drop down the ladder at this point in the game.

Wouldn't Knowledge-Tactics be one of the most valuable, since it gives a max of +15% parry ?

I would really like to give her Awareness too + 10% melee resist is so good.

Thanks for the tips!

[MrPyro]

Is Knowledge: Tactics 15%? Shows you what I know; I've only ever put it on henches (and it was probably a bad choice for them anyway).

The advantage to Shield Specialist is that it also boosts melee resist, which is something that will be a major defence against any enemy that ignores parry. Matriarchs are not too bad for melee resist builds because of their high WS cap (and since you also want WS for parry that works for you there as well).

Heavy armour is good but you can skip it if you really want the passive slots for other skills; your Maiden is forced to use heavy armour so you'll get some use out of any decent sets you pick up. A decent set of blue or later purple light armour is still reasonably protective.

[Wendek]

Agreed with Pyro, if you want a melee tank build Shield Specialist is probably the first one you want : it gives +10% parry AND melee resistance when mastered. In the end it's much stronger than Flash Parry, because you won't even need to parry if you're not hit to begin with.
I would also skip Knowledge : Tactics since half of the skill is going to be wasted on your (likely not agile at all) Matriarch.

[Sev]

Originally posted by spaceweezle:

Originally posted by MrPyro:

I assume you're getting the Mastered versions of these skills to get the maximum boost from them, and you have maxed your weapon skill as far as possible?

Retaliation is good but you might be able to skip it as the matriarch has a high WS and therefore will often hit anyway (+20% never hurts, though!)

Parry is slightly harder than Dodge as most melee characters tend to boost the stat that allows Parry bypass (Str) and a few enemies just ignore it altogether (Rat Ogre, Chaos Spawn, Possessed, certain mutants).

You're only talking about your passives here, but I assume you're going for Web of Steel as an active as well.

If you want tanky you could also look at mastering Armour Proficient and then fitting her in heavy armour (I know, giving you more skills now and not helping).

I'd probably skip Knowledge: Tactics as the boost to parry is only modest, and instead to find a good shield (blue and purple shields give better parry mods than white, and there may be shield enchants that boost parry, can't remember)

I have not mastered anything yet, as it's pretty early in the campaign. But yes, she already has Web of Steel.

I forgot that Strength bypasses Parry, but am aware of the fact some guys can ignore it. I figure I'll let my Impressive tank those types of enemies (when I get her)

I've been considering Heavy armor on her for a while now. Our contact was nice enough to make us a shiny blue piece of heavy but I cannot have her drop down the ladder at this point in the game.

Wouldn't Knowledge-Tactics be one of the most valuable, since it gives a max of +15% parry ?

I would really like to give her Awareness too + 10% melee resist is so good.

Thanks for the tips!

Actually Parry isn't so bad. If you are fighting the AI they tend to have balanced stat setups so they tend to put as many points into strength as they do accuracy so it tends to be a wash there.

The biggest advantage you will have over the AI is your use of positioning.

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by MrPyro:

Is Knowledge: Tactics 15%? Shows you what I know; I've only ever put it on henches (and it was probably a bad choice for them anyway).

The advantage to Shield Specialist is that it also boosts melee resist, which is something that will be a major defence against any enemy that ignores parry. Matriarchs are not too bad for melee resist builds because of their high WS cap (and since you also want WS for parry that works for you there as well).

Heavy armour is good but you can skip it if you really want the passive slots for other skills; your Maiden is forced to use heavy armour so you'll get some use out of any decent sets you pick up. A decent set of blue or later purple light armour is still reasonably protective.

You're right, Shield specialist is a must have. She has that now.

I did not know the Maiden only uses Heavy armor. I hope she has enough initiative to off-set that. From memory, the Skaven impressive had pretty awesome base initiative, but he was wearing cloth.

I think I'll stick with Leather on my Matriarch for a while, or at least until I can find a way to boost her initiative to remain in the top 4 ladder positions. That seems like a long way off though.

I wish the maiden didn't come with that passive skill that I will never use. That would help so much if I had that extra open slot. Still torn between all these great skills.

Thanks again!

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by Wendek:

Agreed with Pyro, if you want a melee tank build Shield Specialist is probably the first one you want : it gives +10% parry AND melee resistance when mastered. In the end it's much stronger than Flash Parry, because you won't even need to parry if you're not hit to begin with.
I would also skip Knowledge : Tactics since half of the skill is going to be wasted on your (likely not agile at all) Matriarch.

I figure I'll need all 15% of that skill to counter high enemy strength. Considering that she has not parried once in 10 or so missions leads me to believe 71% (now 76%) is not even close to being enough. Looks like I need at least 120%+ to be effective.

[MrPyro]

The Maiden's passive is actually quite useful (completely immune to ranged combat). But yes, if you want good initiative you're going to have to stack heavily into Alertness for her. You can get away with skipping intelligence for the Maiden if you don't want to use her as a spellcaster (which I think is safer) and just go for a tank or melee monster.

If you're not sure what's going on with your parries, try opening the combat log (press L during combat). It will show you the parry dice rolls being made, and will show you the actual target number (factoring in enemy strength/skills).

My matriarch only got to 101% parry but is fairly reliable at it.

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by MrPyro:

The Maiden's passive is actually quite useful (completely immune to ranged combat). But yes, if you want good initiative you're going to have to stack heavily into Alertness for her. You can get away with skipping intelligence for the Maiden if you don't want to use her as a spellcaster (which I think is safer) and just go for a tank or melee monster.

If you're not sure what's going on with your parries, try opening the combat log (press L during combat). It will show you the parry dice rolls being made, and will show you the actual target number (factoring in enemy strength/skills).

My matriarch only got to 101% parry but is fairly reliable at it.

Sorry, by "Maiden I meant "Matriarch" lol. I haven't got the Maiden yet.

Good idea man, I'll check the log next time I'm in-game.

After further deliberation, I will skip Retaliation and put Knowledge-tactics in it's place. I figure there's no point having increased chance to counter, but no successful parries.

[Wendek]

Consider Defensive Stance for later, you will really need something against Impressives (Ogres/Maidens can be parried, but with their 15+ Strength it's much harder) and Possessed.
I know for my Mercs warband, the Possessed and arm-mutated Marauders were extremely dangerous especially for my Captain because they all ignore Parry. I got more than half of my lategame injuries/OoA from missions against Chaos for that reason.

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by Wendek:

Consider Defensive Stance for later, you will really need something against Impressives (Ogres/Maidens can be parried, but with their 15+ Strength it's much harder) and Possessed.
I know for my Mercs warband, the Possessed and arm-mutated Marauders were extremely dangerous especially for my Captain because they all ignore Parry. I got more than half of my lategame injuries/OoA from missions against Chaos for that reason.

Good call man, that skill is awesome, And I never even noticed it before! That will help greatly against those that can't be parried.

I always have plenty of Active skill slots open. Cheers!

[mikeblackburn13]

In the same vein as Defensive Stance, spare a look at Sign of Sigmar. The resistance bonus isn't as high as for Defensive Stance, but as it doesn't end the turn it can be combined with other skills. My own Matriarch usually combines Sign with Web of Steel for a very solid defense, or just Sign for a little extra protection against armbands & the like. My Maiden, on the other hand, uses both Defensive Stance & Sign of Sigmar for defense. Makes her pretty hard to hit :)

[spaceweezle]

Originally posted by mikeblackburn13:

In the same vein as Defensive Stance, spare a look at Sign of Sigmar. The resistance bonus isn't as high as for Defensive Stance, but as it doesn't end the turn it can be combined with other skills. My own Matriarch usually combines Sign with Web of Steel for a very solid defense, or just Sign for a little extra protection against armbands & the like. My Maiden, on the other hand, uses both Defensive Stance & Sign of Sigmar for defense. Makes her pretty hard to hit :)

I'm guessing she'll need to remain way up on the ladder for that skill to take effect.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but it says "not stackable" doesn't that mean it won't work with Defensive stance ?

Oh right, the application for that would be to use SOS before you even attack in case of enemy parry/counter ?

[spaceweezle]

Okay guys, I've got 2 Passive slots left and 4 skills in contention. Help sway me to the better choice please.

Awareness - to stack with Defensive stance
Force of Will - For a whopping 95% stun resistence
Knowledge-Tactics - Extra 15% parry
Hardy -

[mikeblackburn13]

The "not stackable" for SOS just means you can't gain the buff from that skill more than once. It stacks with Awareness, Anticipation, Defensive Stance, and anything else.
And yes, it works well for protection from counter-attacks. I like to use it before she goes into an ambush stance for exactly that purpose.