How to properly use Marksmen?

[Dibb]

Hi,


First, wow, great game!


I have two marksmen in my human party, one of them is a hero and one a henchman. So far so good. However, they basically suck and I guess I'm not using 'em the correct way. Way too often they miss (they're each using a bow and blunderbuss), or they'll get too close to the enemy who'll melee them out of action.

I need some help here ladies and gents, how are these guys meant to be played?


Thanks

[Profiler]

Always try to get high ground with them. As higher you go, as better they'll hit!

[uddhava]

Ok, so the marksmen take some time to level up but that are very good (imo) for one single reason:

They can do damage without getting into melee!

This is the most important. It sounds obvious I know but this is why you have them. If not, then just take warriors.

So, first how to spec um. Obviously they need to be able to shoot well. Later on you can tack on special shots, criticals and what not.
- Sink everything in BS, Alertness and Agility. The first increases to hit chance AND damage. The second means that allthough you carry a longbow you wont be too slow (turn wise), the third is for being able to dodge and climb.
- skills: quick reload is a must. Often you'll be shooting into melee, softening up targets and finishing off near dead units. Thus you must be able to use aim a lot. Quick reload is less reload cost is more aiming. an unmoving marksmen can get two aimed shots with a longbow into a melee at about 80-95 to hit chance. That are near guaranteed hits.
Then go for either Bullseye (even more to hit with aim, and your next shot will always be +10% if you hit the first, see what I mean) and then things like crippling shot, headshot, handshot, vital shot or something. I would pick one. Because you will always do one shot for 2 pills and another for three at max rank (5 pills) so more then one special seems a waste. Other good skills are wallrunner (free climbing and thus more pills is more aimed shots or sharpshooter (for extra crit chance) but remember a marksman will never be a good critter (like any henchmen).

No take the above skillset and apply it, with everything mastered, on a hero marksmen. And yes he WILL be a good critter because a hero marksmen can get off four shots (for a maximum of +18% crit chance, plus vital shot = +38% crit chance on the last shot).

Go buy a marksman at level 5, raise his intel to 9, take LGT basic and mastered (free, because you bought the unit) and then do all of the above. He will be a fearsome shooter, poppuing up anywhere and riddling your foes with arrows.

Oh yeah, marksmen are also good for overwatching to pick off enemies andtake away blue pills (each hit is -1 blue pill, so two henchmen and a hero in a firing line can take away 3 pills which is a nice way to prevent someone approaching.

Finally, never equip to shooting weapons on any unit. He might be attacked and he might have to help out to force all alone tests So an archer should always have either a dagger or a 1h+shield combo as backup. Use longbows for more shots, and look out for one with a rune of misfortune.

Good luck!

[Dibb]

Awesome replies, thanks guys!

[Ciecieji]

That's basically totally right but I would use bows instead of longbows since it has a bonus chance to hit passive instead of bonus crit damage (and as stated your henchmen will never be good at criting), also if your not running a shooting army keep your archers near your melee guys and have them focus on the enemy that your melees are mobing.

It's great to put three melee guys on an enemy and then have a couple shooters work on him as well.

Uddhava mentioned it, but its worth restating...shooters are worthless without quick reload and amazing with it. It takes 3-5 strategy points to reload twice without this skill and 6-9 to reload 3 times (depends on weapon) if you have one level of quick reload that goes down to 1-3 and 3-6 repectively. This allows you to use the aim skill (+20% to hit), move in and out of cover, take up a better position or end your turn in a dodge, unlike melee characters your shooters will usually use all of their strategy points so saving them is a huge benifit.

[s†. Chris†opher]

This is a tip for all skirmishing type unit not just marksmen. Always make sure you have space behind you for disengage and dont retreat onto stairs, they also block your disengage.

Nothing worse than having your ranged/skirmishers pinned next to a wall and forced to melee.

Also have a dedicated escort for your main ranged unit, so when you disengage someone can take his place; when possible. Placed correctly, ranged units are a hassle to deal with; especially when they are blocked.

[Timeraider]

Originally posted by uddhava:

snip

This.. the Balistic statistic is massively important. Without it leveled up range is meh. The more points in balistic though, the better it gets and at high numbers it really stacks up to being really nice.

[uddhava]

Originally posted by Ciecieji:

That's basically totally right but I would use bows instead of longbows since it has a bonus chance to hit passive instead of bonus crit damage (and as stated your henchmen will never be good at criting)

This true but you trade off range tho. Purple longbows have excellent range, and the to hit is compensated by aim and the Marksmen passive. Alternatively you could get a rune of expertise for +8 to hit bonus.

[Adolf's Truest Friend]

Marksmen get an excellent passive skill, they really only have to Aim once. (assuming this first shot does not miss horribly).

Also, Mercs get Sniper Shot skill. It might be meh, but you can always try this with a gun instead of standard build with bows ^

[Phantomox]

yep i concur with all these replies
i have 2 lvl 10 henchmen archers and they are glorious now

they werent to enjoyable at low levels but if you can keep them alive they become invaluable


edit
playwise i keep my archers together to work as a team mostly
i spend my skill points on the
crippling shot lose an OP point
knee shot decreases initiative on target for next round,very handy
hand shot decreases enemy chance to hit

these and others have unique debuffs which can be important to survival against the brutes you encounter

also,
tactical use of delay action

example
i delay my archers turn in the order,so that i get a chance to disengage my warrior in melee contact with an enemy
he disengages and i set a new ambush with him a few yards back from the engagement spot
then return to my archers to shoot at better odds ,as the target is now not engaged in melee
as the hit % drops dramatically shooting at engaged enemies

[Willem]

Nice tips by Uddhave but how to buy the skills my henchmen have like 10 skills points but i never have enough gold to buy them. So far i was only able to buy 1 skill and my guy's are around level 5 ish.
Gold is pretty hard to get and much needed.

[Phantomox]

Originally posted by Willem:

Nice tips by Uddhave but how to buy the skills my henchmen have like 10 skills points but i never have enough gold to buy them. So far i was only able to buy 1 skill and my guy's are around level 5 ish.
Gold is pretty hard to get and much needed.

yep,warpstone missions get as much as u can and sell it to the smugglers
high risk high rewards on the hard and brutal missions
deadly missions are too deadly to venture off searching for the shards generally:)

[drake_hound]

Get high BS get quick reload use a BOW or Range Weapons that reload 1 cost.
Then slowly advance to the more delicate fire arms. (skaven and heroes can start with pistols cause it equals out the damage and ap use)

Then get meditation to replenish AP for bow hencmen. enjoy 3 shot a turn later on.
Equip them with fancy armour and a secondary weapon like dagger and shield.
Or a nifty twohander for shock effect. Best Bow men are those who equip heavy armour.
Take heavy armour skill and tactics mordheim. they are like in tactical term Shock troops!

Light armour marksmen are different, they are your wyrdstone rushers till you can get the good shooting skills. get more mobility on them asap so they can move faster climb faster out of harms way.

And keep shooting from high ground for bonus! there damage might be low at start.
But later on build them into critical build or somebody else debuff the target and whoop a 80 critical a shot :P

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Willem:

Nice tips by Uddhave but how to buy the skills my henchmen have like 10 skills points but i never have enough gold to buy them. So far i was only able to buy 1 skill and my guy's are around level 5 ish.
Gold is pretty hard to get and much needed.

The trick is to get wyrdstone clusters asap. send the rest of the junk to the council.
Keep the wyrdstone cluster once prices hit in 133%+ (cause of you are forced to max out all rep faction anyway so the last one will give massive 133% or 150%)
Dump your wyrdstone clusters there and See your massive income :P

[Willem]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Originally posted by Willem:

Nice tips by Uddhave but how to buy the skills my henchmen have like 10 skills points but i never have enough gold to buy them. So far i was only able to buy 1 skill and my guy's are around level 5 ish.
Gold is pretty hard to get and much needed.

The trick is to get wyrdstone clusters asap. send the rest of the junk to the council.
Keep the wyrdstone cluster once prices hit in 133%+ (cause of you are forced to max out all rep faction anyway so the last one will give massive 133% or 150%)
Dump your wyrdstone clusters there and See your massive income :P

I'm stuggeling to get the shipments ready in time barly made the first shipment of 100 on the last day now they need 161 and i have like 79 atm with 3 day's left.
Not getting much of the stones to send for extra cash.

Edit: Also do you have to bring the stones back to the cart or is it fine to have them on your men at the end of the round ?

[Wendek]

It's fine to have the wyrdstones on your warriors... as long as they're alive of course. :p