Mordheim: City of the Damned

Mordheim: City of the Damned

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Smurfferdid Aug 14, 2016 @ 2:25pm
Skaven campaign issues.
So I've been trying to level a skaven warband for the past few nights, and my progress always gets stonewalled by this issue I keep having when I go up against Witch Hunters.

I'm not sure if this is a bug but for about 6 times now I'll get set up against a warband with a rating much higher than mine on a "normal" difficulty mission when my warband's is still down in the 450-500 range. This seems to happen only with Witch Hunters. We're talking full suits of armor for everybody, extra henchmen, an extra hero a couple of times etc.

It's just frustrating because while these missions are technically winnable, it really takes a toll on my dudes since I kind of get critted in to oblivion, and my poor little rat buddies can't manage to dodge through their attacks, or get good surrounds or ambushes, when they outclass me so much. Hell, the last time it happened I got swarmed by a warband of all flagellants, so no "all alone" checks to work in my favor; My leader, and two henchmen ALL rolled "dead" on their injuries, and a third henchman got a missing arm, a missing eye, and a cracked skull all at once! Holy crap, game, I'm sorry!

I guess, does anyone have any tips for dealing with this? I've tried splitting my dudes up, I've tried keeping them all together, I've tried focussing down heroes/leaders, I've tried cleaning up the chaff. I always lose in this situation. Anyone else running in to this issue?

And I guess as a side note, I've had trouble with the act 1 mission for the Skaven, does anyone have any tips for dealing with that ogre? Both times I've done it he's smacked up at least 2 of my guys.
Last edited by Smurfferdid; Aug 14, 2016 @ 2:39pm
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Baffling. The ai can´t have more toons then you do as it always mirrors your setup in skirmishes. Same amount of heroes, same amount of henchies, only an impressive if you field one as well..

As for tips, when you're forced into two on one situations with skaven in your disadvantage you are doing it wrong tacticly.
Always keep your rats together, always make sure you cover your flanks with amored warpguards on ambush so they can't ambush your squishies. You have far better movement so use it and surround em.
If you're really worried just wait for them to come to you. No doubt their henchies and cloth heroes will come earlier then the heavy armored guys so you can slaughter the others first.

As for the ogre, don't do the mission too fast. The enemy is set in campaign missions and there isnt a deadline so just wait, make your team much stronger and then you will laugh at the puny orgre as your impressive/ impressive heroes butcher it.
Greybush Aug 14, 2016 @ 2:53pm 
First of all, by "extra henchmen, an extra hero a couple of times etc." do you mean the Witchhunters show up with more units than you? Because that's simply not the case. The AI warbands will always match yours in numbers and unit selection (number of henchmen vs number of heroes, and whether or not you have an Impressive).
If you get swarmed it can seem like they bring more units, but they don't. The rating difference is pretty much only related to gear.


As for tips, the usual applies, but especially for Skaven:
-stick together
-never go 1vs1 if you can avoid it
-always focus on killing one unit before you go for another. Using 4 units to kill 1 quickly is better than slowly killing 2 with 2vs2. The longer you spend killing a unit, the bigger the chance reinforcements will show up.

When you start getting up in ranks, these things aren't as important, but for the best chance at low ranks they're crucial.

Boink Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:03pm 
Templar Knight is probably the worst thing you ever face especially starting a low level warband. He is just too OP especially if he is carrying a 2 handed weapon. It pretty much guarantees one of your Skaven henchies will drop in 1-2 turns.

Considering flagellant is also immune to all alone fear adds to the problem. You are pretty much dealing with a higher composition of them being immune to all alone mechanics limiting your options.

I am not familiar with skavens but i'm sure most of them can get range weapons. Range weapons is a good mechanic to exploit against these type of Warbands. If not applic 2 handed or dual wield can be beneficial surround fast/kill fast.... and move on to the next target.
Last edited by Boink; Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:11pm
Smurfferdid Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:14pm 
I understand I need to outnumber them tactically, it's just that at low ranks there's only so much I can do to split my enemy's forces. Yeah, I'll catch some guy out and mob him occasionally, but the issue lies in there being nothing I can do about my units 75% chance to hit and 30 something damage per attack at the early stages. Basically, by the time I've whittled a lone unit's health down to half through the misses and dodges, 3 enemies have shown up to support him.

I've leveled a few other bands and so far I think I've noticed that Skaven seems to be a bit of a late bloomer.
Last edited by Smurfferdid; Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:15pm
Smurfferdid Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by Greybush:
First of all, by "extra henchmen, an extra hero a couple of times etc." do you mean the Witchhunters show up with more units than you? Because that's simply not the case. The AI warbands will always match yours in numbers and unit selection (number of henchmen vs number of heroes, and whether or not you have an Impressive).

I've genuinely counted them and they've brought more men than me, I'm not sure what's going on, but like I said this has only happened up against Witch Hunters.
Jasan Quinn Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:18pm 
Okay, I've not played low level Skaven vs Witchhunters (I've only done it with a mostly Rank 10 band) but here are a few pointers:

First, as with Chaos, their refusal to break is a nightmare. Flagellants and Knights Templar are both unbreakable and as such should NOT be engaged lightly.

I suggest getting some heavy armour Warpguard with shields to act as roadblocks. These rats should try to bog down enemy units, especially ones who won't break when outnumbered. Their naturally high strength and toughness should hopefully allow them to survive for a while and do some damage until your main dps units can come and rescue them.

Speaking of, keep your big hitters out of the fight until you can engage on your own terms. The enemy should NEVER be getting a charge on your Assassin Adept, Black Skaven, etc. Remember to manage your Offense Points carefullly; if you have 5 points, for example, then DO NOT CHARGE - walk into combat and make two normal attacks instead!

You will likely want some support as well if you have it. Globadiers are an excellent ranged unit and their globes can be used to create traps, poisoning the enemy as they advance to engage. Sorcerers are also useful for their buff / debuff potential. Even at low level, a few Bless with Filth castings can do wonders for your warband.

Optimal order of attack is hard to say without knowing the situation on the ground, but here are a few rules I typically follow:

1) Morale damage. Try to kill off the Leader and Heroes as quickly as possible to maximise the loss to enemy morale.
2) Breakable enemies don't need to be mobbed by your best men. Put two henchmen on an enemy zealot or priest and leave your best men free to kill more urgent targets.
3) Unbreakable targets must be selected and killed based on damage output. If one of your rats is going to go down in two turns of combat, make sure his opponent doesn't get two turns worth of attacks! Generally, I find it's best to pick off the Fanatics first, then pile 4+ rats onto the Templar.

On the skills front, Witch Hunters generally have light / no armour (priests and templars are the exception here; in my experience they often have heavy armour) so plan skill use accordingly. Skills focused on bypassing armour resistance aren't necessarily going to be as useful, so you might be best focusing on raw damage instead. That said, it might be worth keeping one anti-armour guy back in case someone trots up in a shiny suit of Dwarf made full plate.

Oh, and one last piece of advice: be VERY careful about bringing an Impressive! The Rat Ogre is possibly the worst Impressive of the lot due to Stupidity, while your opponents have access to some truly formidable units. The Executioner is very strong and best engaged at range... or ideally, not engaged at all.

If you absolutely have to drop him, remember that Impressives are Unbreakable, have lots of health and generally have high strength to boot. You'll want lots of Rats with high damage to drop him. You'll almost certainly need the Rat Ogre helping, so you MUST have a character with Guidance to keep Stupidity at bay (the sorcerer has this as standard I believe). If in doubt, throw a rat at him to keep him busy while you take out his smaller, squishier friends, then mob the brute.

Smurfferdid Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:18pm 
Originally posted by Boink:
Templar Knight is probably the worst thing you ever face especially starting a low level warband. He is just too OP especially if he is carrying a 2 handed weapon. It pretty much guarantees one of your Skaven henchies will drop in 1-2 turns.

Absolutely. That guy has had my number more than once, he always seems to be the target for any "marked for death" optionals too, just to add insult to literal injury.
Castor Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:24pm 
If you are truly outnumbered in a skirmish then you need to take screenshots and post them in the bug forum. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that this does not happen and certainly should not.
Smurfferdid Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:46pm 
Originally posted by Castor:
If you are truly outnumbered in a skirmish then you need to take screenshots and post them in the bug forum. I think I speak for everyone here when I say that this does not happen and certainly should not.

The next time it happens I'll be sure to snap a couple. I was just about to start playing again.

Watch though, now that I've mentioned it everything will go back to normal.
Last edited by Smurfferdid; Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:46pm
Smurfferdid Aug 14, 2016 @ 3:48pm 
Originally posted by Jasan Quinn:
Okay, I've not played low level Skaven vs Witchhunters (I've only done it with a mostly Rank 10 band) but here are a few pointers:

This is all really handy, thank you. I guess I've just gotta try and bite some bullets until I manage to get some ranks... all those handy abilities being out of my reach and such.
Jasan Quinn Aug 14, 2016 @ 4:40pm 
Trust me, they get worse at high level. I've just had a WH mirror where a dagger + shield + heavy + helm Templar was using Overpower to stunlock my guys while their Fanatics got auto-hits on me. Lost a Zealot and a Priest and almost lost my Captain as well (thankfully I had burned a bag of dice before the match and they all returned with nought worst than an open wound).

On first impressions I took WH to be "Sigmarite Chaos", and I stand by that assessment; I see an enemy WH Captain coming toward me and I gleefully cheer at the huge chunk of morale damage I'm about to inflict, but the Henchmen are a pain and the Heroes either bog me down in brutal slogging matches or tear bloody wounds in my flank.

So, based on playing Rank 7 - 10 Warbands of Sisters, Skaven and Witch Hunters, here's my impression of the AI's false servants of the Order.

(I realise this is written from a WH perspective and you're Skaven, but it should still apply. Also, stop stealing our books!)

WITCH HUNTER CAPTAIN - At worst, an all-rounder melee thug who can cause you pain. At best, an inconsequential oaf who will stand around firing bolts at pidgeons for desecrating the local statues to Imperial heroes. This man should be helped to the presence of Sigmar quickly, to save himself further embarassment.

KNIGHT TEMPLAR - A dangerous foe indeed! Fearless, and typically found in two varieties; the rich noble adorned in full plate and equipped for the duel, or the "rural" land owner who has merely his weapons and the clothes on his back. Fear both, for they are capable warriors. If armed with great weapons, expect considerable injury to be suffered; these foes must be dispatched swiftly, or else kept occupied until their allies have given up the fight.

WITCH HUNTER - These misguided servants of a false order suffer the same delusions of adequacy as their superiors. Rejoice at their presence, for they are wearing out boot leather that would better serve a more talented warrior! Dispatch quickly to demoralise the enemy, gain numerical advantage or remove their (obviously heretical) trinkets. Under no circumstances should they be treated as an actual threat.

PRIEST OF SIGMAR - Alas! How even the purest of souls can be lost in this Damned place! The Priests of Sigmar are much like their Knight Templar brethren; when heavily armed they will endure many blows, and even lightly armed are dangerous. Based on our experience studying these lost priests, the robed warriors are of less concern and should be assailed quickly. Armoured priests, however, can bog down our warriors in prolonged duels and give the initiative to the enemy! Take careful note of the (corrupted) prayers they utter; if there are hints these incantations may be giving the foe undue advantage, prioritise the Priest's elimination. Otherwise, you may find it wise to focus on other matters.
A key distinction between the Knight and the Priest is, of course, that the Priest has some measure of self preservation. You would be wise to exploit this.

FANATICS - Always be cautious around a man who is truly unafraid to die. Almost always armed with their signature flails, or perhaps large blunt instruments, Fanatics will not relent in their efforts to pummel your agents into a bloody pulp! Thankfully, these deranged idiots have not the foresight to don armour, and so it is often the case that two stout, strong men (or perhaps a few useful idiots of your own) will quickly remove them from the equation. In my humble opinion, these loud, unpredictable men should be laid down to rest as quickly as is humanly possible! Only when more lucid men present a more immediate threat, or a more strategically valuable target, should the Fanatic be passed up.
Addendum: The younger, less skilled breed of escaped asylum resident may only have the endurance for one solid swing every few minutes. In this case, it is perhaps wise to arrange a temporary minder, and simply let the fool wail on a faithful man's shield as his more dangerous allies are sent to judgement.

ZEALOT - In simple terms, a Zealot is a Knight Templar without the raw fighting skill, unbreakable resolve or quality of equipment. As such, they're typically more a nuisance than a threat. Dangerous in groups or supporting their betters, but inconsequential alone. Once more, general rules apply; armoured zealots seek to pin your men down, lighter foes will typically seek to cause maximum harm. Their greatest threat is arguably the greater initiative and freedom to act they give to their comrades. Generally speaking, these may be left as the last men to dispatch; there is often a heretic more worthy of judgement close by.
uddhava Aug 14, 2016 @ 4:48pm 
What also helps is to avoid higher difficulty missions if thats a thing that happens. So stick to normal and maybe hard but avoid Brutals and Deadlies!
two globadiers as ranged early on with warpguards meat shields is pretty good and once you get the sorcerer just put leadership on the sucker make him leader and put only buff spell to use on the Ogre Rat
Castor Aug 14, 2016 @ 5:39pm 
Flagellant not Fanatic
Glean Aug 14, 2016 @ 8:53pm 
I havn't had the out numbered thing happen. But dealing with the WH at low lvls can be a pain. I usually go one of two ways early. Either I'm taking a couple of warpguards who are there to die...just stick them on the tk and cap and leave them while the rest of you pick off the squishy's. Or, preferably, using the movement to pick the band apart. Instead of a brawl, where the WH's shine, I'll move around until I catch sight of them. Then try and judge if I have a free round on the closest. Jump him with a couple of rats, but just take 1 round of shots and disengage before the rest get there. If they are to clumped I just run around and pick stuff up till they get spred out enuff to do it again. With the hurt rats I swich to stars and try to keep um up and doing damage, switching back to the mace if I am desp or if i see a weak one.

Just make sure there is room to disengage, and don't get carried away with the ambush stance so no rat gets stuck charging into the mob. Sometimes a rat will get crit, or swamped or whatever. Thats fine, he'll be replaced. Just make sure it's not your hero or leader. Eventually the henchi's will be strong and usefull but at early lvls I don't get attached. :D Low lvls you just need to kill a few of um to get the rout, so I just try to take my time and pick off the straglers.

Lastly, use as many maces as possible early. The + to hit is huge when your low rank.
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Date Posted: Aug 14, 2016 @ 2:25pm
Posts: 23