A drawback of Born Leader?

[Maelstrom]

I have used this to promote a mercenary Champion to leader, but now the game seems unwilling to let me have more than one active Hero Champion in my band. Is this because, for the purposes of warband composition/limitation, my new leader will always be considered a Champion first and foremost?
Does this mean it is always better to have a ´natural born' Leader coming through?
In fact, since I am also running into similar difficulties with Lad's Got Talent promotees, is there a simple clear chart anywhere setting out all the restrictions on who you can have in your band & how promotions etc affect these rules??

[Paranoia]

Lad´sed and Borned Henchmen and Heroes count towards their type limits.

So, for example, you can indeed only ever have two Champions at a time.
But, on the other hand, you could have four Lad´sed Warriors at the same time if you wanted.

As for if it is worth it: depends if you have better use for the replacement than the default.
For example, Skaven Sorcerer is oftenmot thought clearly superior to Assassin Adept, whereas a Possessed is a crappy replacement for a Magister. And the rest are somewhere in between these two extremes. And depends on the rest of the Warband composition, obviously.

[Karond]

Born leader is quite good.

You do lose a passive slot, but you don't lose any skillpoints, and you get +10 more attribute points than a normal leader. Compare that to for example the LGT, which lose 6 skillpoints on the promotion as well as the passive slot.

Some options are, of course, better than others.

The matriarch is the best leader in the game, so the Augur won't usurp her.
The sorcerer leader is generally better than an assassin, since the latter is difficult to make much out of.
The champion leader is pretty good, but the captain isn't that bad to begin with either.
The warrior priest leader is also pretty good, just like the witch hunter captain.
Necromancers can be good leaders, yet you do lose out on the vampire which is a fantastic leader in his own right.
Finally, there is a case for possessed leaders, but the more you bring to the table, especially in the form of heroes or impressives, the more superior the magister will be.

[Bloodscape]

Wait, what?

Unless I am misunderstanding/wording on planner is wrong, born leader technically loses 2 skill points (gains 4 for mastery while losing 6 for taking basic/mastery). This is for 5 warband types while cult have a disparity of 24 for possessed instead of 30, losing 8 skill points but with 3 mutations (technically the same as the other warbands).

[Paranoia]

Originally posted by Bloodscape:

Wait, what?

Unless I am misunderstanding/wording on planner is wrong, born leader technically loses 2 skill points (gains 4 for mastery while losing 6 for taking basic/mastery).

Except, as by my comment above, Born Leader has the same feature Lad´s has: it only takes +2 Skill Points to Master.

[Bloodscape]

Ahh, good to know... first time appearing in this thread though. I will make a note on the wikia.

[Reaver79]

Most have good options for born leader, i'd never do it with Cult tho. You simply loose too much by forgoing the magisters support.

[Kittenpaw]

Same with the Sisters and the Augur.

Although the Warrior Priest can be a nice Born Leader for Mercenaries or Sisters.

He is probably ideal for Mercenaries in fact.

[Maelstrom]

Karond wrote >> you do lose a passive slot<<
I think I understand what you mean; but just tor my own clarity, why do you call it a "passive slot"?

[kriscardiac]

Skills are either Active (left hand side) or Passive (right hand side).
Active need to be paid for in blue or red pills, passives do not.

[Kittenpaw]

Because you can only train 5 ‘passive skills’ as opposed to 5 ‘Active Skills’ which are used in game as actions.

Or, left side vs right side on the skill screen.

[Bloodscape]

For example, the skills Swift Counter, Flash Parry, Shield Specialist, Knowledge: Mordheim and Armour Proficiency are all passive skill that can go well with a parry/melee resist/armour tank. However if it is a Born Leader, all 5 cant be had at the same time because Born Leader takes a slot leaving only the option of 4 to be obtained.

Same thing with a starting skill that is a passive one. Combined with a starting passive and Born Leader only 3 passive skills are left.

[Reaver79]

Yea to the newer players it might not sound that bad, but the loss of a passive slot can be quite bad.

[Reaver79]

Originally posted by Kittenpaw:

Same with the Sisters and the Augur.

Although the Warrior Priest can be a nice Born Leader for Mercenaries or Sisters.

He is probably ideal for Mercenaries in fact.

Fair enough on the Augur.
And yea the WP is pretty damn awesome no matter how you turn it.

[Bloodscape]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

And yea the WP is pretty damn awesome no matter how you turn it.

If only we could turn the WP to the chaos gods and unhinge the balance forever

[Reaver79]

Meh he would not work with my idol of change. ;)