Are Impressives even worth using in PvE?

[Brax]

I played a lot of this game a few years ago, got a pair of lvl 10 warbands under my belt and then promptly forgot everything about the game.
I recently picked it up again with a previously leveled chaos and mercenary warband, both at lvl 10. I don't remember what I was thinking at the time, what direction to take them. They both have lvl 10 impressives that are less than impressive.

They have the basic acceptable (added melee damage with daredevil/blood offering) build but I'm noticing when I pick an impressive for a PvE encounter, the AI bonuses just too strong. I'll have a well built impressive with 550 hit points and something like 250 damage with team buffs applied but the enemy has 750 hp and nearly as good damage. I know deadly encounters are supposed to be DEADLY but the last few games have left me wondering if I should even bother with an impressive instead of two heroes.

The sheer amount of of imbalance with a level 10 warband is just an instant death sentence for at least two of my guys no matter how well the warband's synergy is built.

And like I said, when I built these warbands I had a strategy in mind but picking it up years later I have no idea, I'm just passing time looking to hire a level 7 to my liking.

[Darth Cannabis]

I would agree with looking for some level 7 hires (particularly in cult case due to also seeing all mutations), to replace them with more newly designed or better synergy with your warband.

Much like you, I had an old ogre on my mercenary band, and to give you an idea of how old this ogre was and just how "not knowing what I was thinking at the time" this was, he had veteran. Much happier after re-placing with a new hire, and he is much more acceptable for replacing two guys. Perfectly worth using in my mind, provided it has its distinct purpose (whether that be soloing, tying up daemons/impressives, or more preferably just slaughtering everything else to where enemy routs with that impressive left holding its ♥♥♥♥).

Plus let's face, it large part of the love of PVE in general is the experimentation and design of various warbands. There is a reason I designed a Khorne, Tzeentch, and Nurgle themed cult bands in addition to my original cultists, as well as two new undead bands, one necro themed no vampire band and a vampire specific no zombie band (this one will eventually use darksouls among its henchmen), in addition to my original mixed undead band.

I mean if we are just passing time, I couldn't help but to mention thematic design choice.

[Brax]

Ayup. OK. Someone's gonna pay for my guys. Might as well be the PvE enemy. I appreciate your candor. Still not really sure how some things fit together. Like I'm pretty sure I need to start over from scratch for synergy when my best unit is a single mutant with all the right mutations (claw foot, wyrdstone horns, thousand eyes) for archery but i ended up buying a bunch of dumb non-archery upgrades. I don't know what I was doing when I played this game but I did it WRONG. Maybe I should just delete everyone from start

[Darth Cannabis]

I would say to ask two major questions, about the warbands themselves first.

First is, what is it that this warband lacks? A counter for a specific thing needed, or something you just want to be able to do your warband can't.

If that doesn't give you the perspective, the second question, is what is it about the warband that is so distinct, that an impressive also centered around that would be the overpowered icing on a delicious case of destruction?

Either of those, is a good start point to dwell on for design inspiration on an impressive.

[Brax]

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

I would say to ask two major questions, about the warbands themselves first.

First is, what is it that this warband lacks? A counter for a specific thing needed, or something you just want to be able to do your warband can't.

If that doesn't give you the perspective, the second question, is what is it about the warband that is so distinct, that an impressive also centered around that would be the overpowered icing on a delicious case of destruction?

Either of those, is a good start point to dwell on for design inspiration on an impressive.

In both warbands I just threw together some stats i would like. I know I can do better, I have done better.

I'm still not sure an impressive unit is worth two heroes in a straight 1 to 1 replacement. In fact I'm pretty sure they aren't

Edited: The more I dwell on it the more I think, at least chaos and mercenary have much better options than ogre and chaos spawn. I don't think either should be in the final warband.

And yes, a big part of that decision is that when you queue for PvE you face a mirror reflection of your band.

[Darth Cannabis]

That last point, I would definitely say is 8 out of 10 times that things go wrong for cult band (with 1 out of 10 being Tzeentch just having his laughs), it is a loose enemy chaos spawn that just gets loose and goes on its own spree (regardless of why). I use them fairly often, but there are definitely times I just won't feel like that risk either.

Ogres on the other hand, are nothing to fear, and its entirely a matter of whether 2 of the mercenary heroes are better. If its replacing 2 champions, or a warlock and champion probably not. If its replacing a couple young bloods, it may be. (not that young bloods are bad, its just I feel they are the weakest of the merc heroes.) It may even depend on whether or not one has access to smuggler and wolfpriest or not. I use it rather sparingly, usually one in reserves that I bring out just for a change of pace or for certain missions.

Basically my most used and least used impressives in a nut shell. Maiden would also be in running for being used pretty often, but sisters are generally my least played. Executioner, Horror, and Rat Ogre, are all somewhat moderately used, due to various abilities or synergies with other warband members (a suggested one is death idol necromancer with crypt horror and vampires to really emphasize the terror and fear).

[Brax]

Originally posted by Darth Cannabis:

If its replacing a couple young bloods, it may be.

I can't imagine a worse scenario than running a pair of youngbloods - even one of them is too many - when it is so much cheaper to just promote a marksman with LGT at the very beginning
Im still talking about the whole situation - maybe a rat ogre is good for a few fights before it becomes useless but it doesnt seem like any other impressive unit is worth using in pve

[dv]

The AI can get lucky and place its impressive in the perfect location by accident. Then it kills half your warband. It happens.

The safest defence against enemy impressives is to not use an impressive yourself. If you use an impressive, I suggest you field two units that are able to tank the enemy impressive forever.

PvE with lvl 10 units is mainly about looting. 5 of 6 Impressives cannot loot. Go figure.

[Darth Cannabis]

Originally posted by dv:

The AI can get lucky and place its impressive in the perfect location by accident. Then it kills half your warband. It happens.

The safest defence against enemy impressives is to not use an impressive yourself. If you use an impressive, I suggest you field two units that are able to tank the enemy impressive forever.

PvE with lvl 10 units is mainly about looting. 5 of 6 Impressives cannot loot. Go figure.

I would also point out that since none of the impressives use ranged weapons (with the exception of Maiden spellcasting which has its own downside). Therefore in theory, one solid melee resist unit, is all you need to tie up an enemy impressive while yours slaughters the rest of enemy warband.

[dv]

MR tank is one option. The other is a good dodge tank if the AI impressive has only three attacks.

[brynjar]

A high lvl leader and high lvl impressive works well if the rest of your warband is low lvl. The enemy will then spawn an agerage lvld team making your impressive, impressive. Slaugther the enemy with a good leader and one or two heroes, while the runts collect warp stones