Undead Guide

[Nemean Lion]

So, has anybody gotten around to writing up a guide for how to use this warband effectively yet?

I know the basics of the game but I've never been a mix-maxer, I don't know the ins and outs of what Skills are optimal or even good, frankly. I know Armor Proficiency and Shield Specialist are needed for tanks and Leader should have Insult at some point, but beyond that, Skills evade me.

I came back to Mordheim after a long hiatus and am liking the theme of the Undead warband, but...I'm not really use how to use them effectively. Zombies are supposed to be the meatshields, but they're too slow to be on the frontlines. Apparently having a Necro alleviates this, but I'm still struggling in my early warband levels. The Dreg...I see mixed opinions about building him ranged or melee. He has a higher Weapon Skill cap than Ballistics and frankly, I've always found ranged to be pretty lackluster (Even in my Merc warband, Hero Marksmen were...passable, at best).

If anybody has some helpful tips on how to build and level an Undead warband, I'd really appreciate your insight. Thank you :)

[Paranoia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkue9IA-DxE

This is the one I know, there may be more but I can't recall.

[Bubs]

I was thinking of making one, but really it's just a case of protecting characters more and not worrying about losing zombies. Basic Mordheim tactics slightly modified.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Nemean Lion:

If anybody has some helpful tips on how to build and level an Undead warband, I'd really appreciate your insight. Thank you :)

If you start at Warband Rank 0, then get 3 Ghouls instead of Zombies. Wait until you have a Necromancer with Basic level of Call of Vanhel spell, then switch over to using Zombies.

Idol of Death spell... then master all 3 spells. Keep your Zombies near your Necromancer. Zombies get Deathstench.

Ghouls go for Dodge...

The Dreg build as Damage Dealer of your choice, though i'd replace him with a Vampire Thrall asap. Vampire Thrall build as Melee Resist Tank to capitalize on Fear.

Vampire Leader build as Tank.

Crypt Horror is basically a Rat Ogre with either dual axe or 2handed axe.

I'd give all of them the Into the breach faction passive, to give more armor absorption bypass.


A Vampire Thrall as Scout/Runner.

[Nemean Lion]

Originally posted by Ishan451:

Originally posted by Nemean Lion:

If anybody has some helpful tips on how to build and level an Undead warband, I'd really appreciate your insight. Thank you :)

If you start at Warband Rank 0, then get 3 Ghouls instead of Zombies. Wait until you have a Necromancer with Basic level of Call of Vanhel spell, then switch over to using Zombies.

Idol of Death spell... then master all 3 spells. Keep your Zombies near your Necromancer.

Ghouls go for Dodge...

The Dreg build as Damage Dealer of your choice, though i'd replace him with a Vampire Thrall asap. Vampire Thrall build as Melee Resist Tank to capitalize on Fear.

Vampire Leader build as Tank.

Crypt Horror is basically a Rat Ogre with either dual axe or 2handed axe.

I like the sound of this. Do you build your Vampire and Thrall as Heavy/Shield Tanks or do you go the Cloth/Dodge Tank setup? Thematically, I like Heavy Armor, but that's hard to pull off until the mid-game when you can afford to get Armor Proficiency

[Machine Spirit]

Crypt Horror isnt just a rat ogre, it can go into buildings which makes a huge difference to strategy.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Nemean Lion:

Do you build your Vampire and Thrall as Heavy/Shield Tanks or do you go the Cloth/Dodge Tank setup?

I build mine as Heavy Armor... the Thralls went for Melee Resist, the Leader for Parry.

Originally posted by Machine Spirit:

Crypt Horror isnt just a rat ogre, it can go into buildings which makes a huge difference to strategy.

For build purposes its a Rat Ogre. (Although it would make a very amazing Melee Resist tank)

[Nemean Lion]

And here again I show my ignorance of anything beyond the basics...

Melee Resist vs Parry tank...I don't grasp the difference. I would imagine if you're running Heavy Armor and a shield, you're Parrying, 'cause there's no way you're dodging anything. Melee Resist I understand is...kinda like AC, higher Melee Resist lowers enemy chance to hit, but I wasn't aware there were entire builds around that. I just don't understand the difference between Melee Resist and Parry tanking, as I thought it was basically the same thing.

I thought the tank options were Heavy Armor/Shield/Parry or Cloth/Dodge. I don't understand the role of Light Armor in this game >_>

[Bubs]

Light armor doesn't slow you like heavy does. I use light armor for achers and non-tanking guys, or parry guys I don't want slow.

I don't pay attention to other's builds, so i'm unsure the details. You know the difference between parry and melee resist already. You have to find your own methods. I think it's just that armor, parry and melee resist often get combined, but there are ways to focus solely on one.

[Ishan451]

Originally posted by Nemean Lion:

I thought the tank options were Heavy Armor/Shield/Parry or Cloth/Dodge. I don't understand the role of Light Armor in this game >_>

The Tank options are Web of Steel (Parry), Sidestep (Dodge) and Defensive Stance (Melee Resist).

Problem is... Sidestep and Wall of Steel only work 2-3 times. Melee Resist works until your next action.

Pushing Melee Reist as Tanking option you need both agility + weapon skill of at least 30+ to work. Ideally you also want other things to reduce the enemy's to hit chance.. like say Fear.. or the Vent skill of the Globadier or the totem of the Doomweaver that reduces attack attributes.

Undead aren't the best Melee Resist tanks, but Thralls have a nice fear effect and with the Idol of the Necromancer you can force it to trigger more often. Which means you lower the enemies to hit chance with the Fear.. and lower it further with a high Melee Resist score.

There are pro's and con's to all 3 options.

Parry for example generates OP for counter attacks*... Dodge isn't bypassed by bracers weapons... Melee resist works more than 3 times. There is no real best... just what you prefer.


Edit:
* Derp.. i meant it lowers the OP cost of counter attack by 1.

[Effusion]

Originally posted by Nemean Lion:

And here again I show my ignorance of anything beyond the basics...

Melee Resist vs Parry tank...I don't grasp the difference. I would imagine if you're running Heavy Armor and a shield, you're Parrying, 'cause there's no way you're dodging anything. Melee Resist I understand is...kinda like AC, higher Melee Resist lowers enemy chance to hit, but I wasn't aware there were entire builds around that. I just don't understand the difference between Melee Resist and Parry tanking, as I thought it was basically the same thing.

I thought the tank options were Heavy Armor/Shield/Parry or Cloth/Dodge. I don't understand the role of Light Armor in this game >_>

The advantage of melee resist is that it always works no matter how many attacks your facing.
Parry works against 1-3 attacks depending on your stance and can be bypassed by armguards.
Dodge is harder to get around than parry but otherwise works the same.
Armor absorbsion reduces incoming damage by a %.

Light armor is great because it doesn't have the dodge or movement penalties of heavy armor, and the purple version has no spellcasting or climbing penalties.

[Game kNight Plays]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkue9IA-DxE

This is the one I know, there may be more but I can't recall.

Thanks Paranoia for linking :)

I'll add build suggestions to the video tonight, but the video gives a good idea of what their strengths are.

I've also posted a video of the Globadead warband build, I'm showing and telling how I intend on building the warband in that one, but have yet to do the builds on Pyros character builder :)

So far, that build seems to be VERY solid, even against other Undead warbands!

[Nemean Lion]

Hm. Well, first of all, I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions. It's all very educational for me! :)

So, for a brand new warband (with minimal Veteran Points, I don't know why they got wiped, I used to have a high-level Sisters warband...), should I try to get my Vampire into Heavy Armor ASAP or wait until I can afford to get Armor Proficiency mastered? The movement penalty sucks, but...Undead are already kind of slow, so maybe this will help keep them all together? If I forego Heavy Armor until I can afford the Skills, he's seems kinda squishy and I don't want to sink a lot of points investing in Dodge to keep him alive until Heavy Armor.

Sad how I know how to PLAY the game but barely Beginner level as far as character building T_T

[Ishan451]

I never use Heavy Armor until i have at the very least the first level of armor proficiency.

[Game kNight Plays]

Originally posted by Nemean Lion:

Hm. Well, first of all, I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions. It's all very educational for me! :)

So, for a brand new warband (with minimal Veteran Points, I don't know why they got wiped, I used to have a high-level Sisters warband...), should I try to get my Vampire into Heavy Armor ASAP or wait until I can afford to get Armor Proficiency mastered? The movement penalty sucks, but...Undead are already kind of slow, so maybe this will help keep them all together? If I forego Heavy Armor until I can afford the Skills, he's seems kinda squishy and I don't want to sink a lot of points investing in Dodge to keep him alive until Heavy Armor.

Sad how I know how to PLAY the game but barely Beginner level as far as character building T_T

Indeed - heavy armor on your vampire will reduce him to movement 5, which isn't bad - he will be at 6 when you get the Armor Proficency skill at normal rank which is perfectly fine. Utilize buildings, doors, carts and other obstructions to be able to ambush the enemy (my zombies with movement 4 ambushes all the time)

You WANT to keep him alive, as he is your best bet for high leadership for your warband and his impact is horrible ... keep him alive and heavy armor will help with that. You can build him as a twohanded charger, but I like to use the Thralls for that instead. At rank 4 they are hitting for massive 100-130 on charges...

My suggested builds are now up on the video :) Remember - they aren't final builds, and should ALWAYS be adapted to your playstyle and warband composition!

[Nemean Lion]

I just changed my Vampire over to a Mace/Shield/Heavy Armor setup, running a Globadier with WarplockPistols (never played Skaven, so I have no idea what to do with him), just got my Thrall which I intend to keep her Halberd for 2H Parry, and currently running 4 Ghouls since I've been told Zombies are garbage until I get a Necro to keep them...doing something, I don't know.