Best weapon for an Assassin Adept crit build?

[Shaengar]

After thinking about this for some time i came to the conclusion that maybe the dagger is the most optimal choice?

At level 10 it lets me attack three times using vital strike which is just so much better than using fighting claws or dual wield Sword and dagger and only getting to attack twice with vital strike. Makes better use of Fatality too this way.
It also gains the benefit of the 10% crit chance from AosD compared to a sword, which would also be a logical choice.

Sure the damage will be negligible but the point of the build is to stun enemies, not to do damage. Also the dodge and parry bypass is really nice for making sure to actually get these attacks to hit.

Any thoughts on the optimal crit build for the Assassin Adept?

[kriscardiac]

I have no thoughts, sorry.

But...

I'm going to try to predict what others might say...

KP: Daggers, ad.rush and swarm mastery, "but Eshin leader is better"
Para+Darth: Words, many. Maybe including daggers of venom.
Slav: Short bow (and how to make it work)
Reav: Order (and take a ROgre).

(No offence intended)

[Shaengar]

So... ok. :) I am completely new to this forum and don't know much about the history here. Just wanted to have a discussion about how to equip my Skaven leader in the most effective way.
Lets see how it works out.

[Kittenpaw]

My first question would be: why do you want to stun targets? There are easier ways to do this, namely Headshot. I would have a higher initiative PWG or Nightrunner Headshot the Adept’s victim. Stunned targets don’t dodge or parry and they have +20% chance to Crit. Fatality + Swarm Mastery is +20 more Crit and Mastery Vital Strike 20 more for +60% Crit Chance. Combine that with base unit Crit chance and a sword of havoc and it should be 80+% Crit chance.

[Kittenpaw]

Mordheim: City of the Damned Character Planner Quick Summary
============================================================

Unit profile: Assassin Adept

Attributes:
===========
Strength: 3
Toughness: 12
Agility: 10
Leadership: 12
Intelligence: 9
Alertness: 15
Weapon Skill: 7
Ballistic Skill: 15
Accuracy: 15

Skills:
=======
Defense Breach Basic, Knowledge: Mordheim Basic, Quick Reload Mastery, Head Shot Mastery, Exhaustion Mastery, Adrenaline Rush Mastery, Sharpshooter Mastery

Books:
==========
Tome of Abilities, Book of Training: Ballistic Skill, Martial Grimore

Equipment:
==========
Shuriken of Misfortune (masterwork)

Kris is right, I cannot stand the Adept since if you make him a melee Crit build he has no survivability. So I designed this Headshot Ranged passive Crit build. Each hit adds +8% Crit chance, Headshot Stun adds +20%. Obviously Headshot first then fire away.

[Shaengar]

Well honestly I am more of a casual gamer and not exactly the best at creating the best builds possible. Just startet playing with a Skaven Warband recently again and went for crit/dodge on my Adept since it struck me as most fitting for his statline. He ist almost lvl 8 now so I guess it is too late to switch builds.

The idea was to use his high initiative to quickly stun a target with a crit at the start of the turn, then disengage to get to another enemy and hopefully stun him too so that the Black Skaven can finish the job later.

It works decently so far. Obviously I am missing a few skillpoints for masteries still but I hope it has the potential to do well though I can see that maybe a ranged build would be better for stunning. I might develope my PWG do do this.

But lets assume my Leader will be melee crit + dodge with Sidestep, Avoid, Fatality, Swarm, Vital Strike and Art of Silent death. Am I correct that a single handed dagger works best for this skill composition?

[kriscardiac]

Really depends on what quality of weapon and enchantments you have access to.

[Shaengar]

Luckily I already got the master formular of havoc. Getting a master quality Dagger or any other weapon is only a matter of time now so availability is not a concern for me.

[Kittenpaw]

Well, Daggers do very little damage, but if you already took Art of Death and Vital Strike then Dagger is probably best, otherwise it is wasted skill points.

[Paranoia]

Assassin Adept
3, 12, 10, 15, 6, 9, 7, 15 (BoBS and Martial Grimoire), 15
(6 Mentals unused)

Skills:
Defense Breach Basic, Sharpshooter Mastery, Resilient Basic
Adrenaline Rush Mastery, Exhaustion Mastery, Knee Shot Mastery, Head Shot Mastery

Books:
==========
Book of Training: Ballistic Skill, Martial Grimore, Tome of Abilities

Equipment:
==========
Helmet (masterwork), Light Armour (masterwork), Shuriken (masterwork)


Gameplan: Either:
1: Headshot. If Stunned: Knee Shot and a normal (Aimed) Shot, and go for the kill the next round; or
2: Head Shot. If Stunned, try and Knee Shot another and the Stunned, one normal /Aimed) Shot, go for the kill next round. Or:
3: Head Shot three times if multiple targets or the primary target refuses to get Stunned. Or:
4: Six Shots at the same target, you'll have +20% to Crit for the last one.


This one is pretty much out of the left field. Tries to be both the Stunner and Critter at once, since Adept has the stats to go for it.
However, you may also try to have someone else do the Stunning and/or Kneeing/Staggering, if anyone, in which case:


Adept 2:
3, 12, 10, 15, 9, 6, 15, 4, 15

Skills:
Defense Breach, Art of Silent Death Mastery, Swarm Mastery, Fatality Mastery, K: Mordheim
Exhaustion Mastery, Sidestep, Adrenaline Rush

Equipment:
==========
Pendant (masterwork), Light Armour (masterwork), Fighting Claws (masterwork)


Never ever b e there to be hit back. And preferrably hit people someone else already Stunned.


But, if you want an Adept that can actually be in combat and not die horribly:

Assassin Adept 3:

10 (Physical Grimoire), 9, 9, 8, 6, 6, 16, 4, 14
(All Mentals unused)

Defense Breach, Art of Silent Death, Swarm Mastery, Fatality Mastery, Flash Parry Mastery
Adrenaline Rush, Exhaustion, Web of Steel Mastery Vital Strike

Books:
==========
Physical Grimore, Tome of Abilities

Equipment:
==========
Dagger (masterwork), Shield (masterwork), secondary Fighting Claws, or the other way around.


And then just swing at the enemy someone else is in contact with. Avoid enemies who ignore Parry.


I would not try Poisons when trying to Crit. Kinda counterproductive, the enemy is not supposed to live long enough for the Poisons to matter. :b

[Paranoia]

Those three are something I cooked up within ten minutes or so. Not necessarily very good, since they are acting in a void since I know not the rest of the Warband composition.

[kingts]

Para : I would not try Poisons when trying to Crit. Kinda counterproductive, the enemy is not supposed to live long enough for the Poisons to matter. :b

I have to agree here with Para, if you want a critical build then poison may waste skill slots and you have plenty of other heroes and minions that can do that.

Remember you have two ways to go with critical builds, damage or percentage chance. The idea to me when using critical builds is to not necesarily do critical damage, since early and mid you are dealing with resistance and evasion chances, but getting them in bad defensive options. To then pummel in critical mastery and massive damage with repeating OP.

The best quality to me about the Skaven is their ability to hit and run, pounce in swarming groups and crush you with percise attacks you cannot defend against. You can't defend everything.

What does he do best, first he has one ability covered. Defense Breach.
You have to decide which weapon best fits your critical build.
U have three choices
Halbeard-Critical damage, Double or Single Swords, or weeping blades though it has no critical bonuses, you can add critical skills and just have the mst poison ability on top of it. Never hurts to do poison without adding anything more to it.
Poisoned: Attacks apply a debuff that deals 24 - 36 damage on target's next turn. Stackable.
NOt awful

So what skills then to choose
Several Crit ways you can go.
Sword-I like the single sword, high dodge rate and u can add an enchantment to increase this percentage or other fun enchantments that either paralize his OP or regain yours. He would come in late when the enemy is engaged by someone else. with Fatality, Vital Strike another critical skill, Para's builds are ok. Swarm is a great skaven skill or underdog another. I usually go Sidestep Mst, and Intimidate Mst is a good one as well if you have the int high enough. Exhaustion, Frenzy and Adrenaline are great additions to do more attacks, but timing is key. They can backfire on the squishy skavs because he lacks high toughness. You would have to build that up so that the penalty wounds do not hurt you, or bring a healing Goblie and your leader is pratically a killing machine with no negative loss of damage since Goblie can heal at peak level 3-4 times 90/120 if he regains OP. That counters those skills negative effects.

The Halbeard is great too to doing massive damage but less OP usage. However it slows you down.

Lastly, the last option weeping blades many do with critical skill additions.

I have two leaders, one similar to Para's Shooting, Switching, Swarming killer. He can go up high shoot you to death and then swoop down and join the swarm. A very versatile leader and I have a sword single user as well.

Alot of ways to go with the assassin, but it also matters what your doing with the rest of your group too, build them incorrectly and it undermines other members.

Think Team concept, not how do I fix one. Test your builds here

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/

This way you avoid the wrong skill addition because well I had to pick something, or why did I add skill points to that follow. Not sure how you play skaven as a team concept, but you could be doing that wrong which exposes your leader and heroes to mistakes and confrontations you do not want to do.
Think team

[Kittenpaw]

Mordheim: City of the Damned Character Planner Quick Summary
============================================================

Unit profile: Assassin Adept

Attributes:
===========
Strength: 3
Toughness: 12
Agility: 10
Leadership: 12
Intelligence: 9
Alertness: 15
Weapon Skill: 16
Ballistic Skill: 4
Accuracy: 14

Skills:
=======
Defense Breach Basic, Shield Specialist Mastery, Defensive Stance Mastery, Awareness Mastery, Resilient Basic, Swarm Mastery, Vital Strike Mastery

Books:
==========
Tome of Abilities

Equipment:
==========
Sword (masterwork), Shield (masterwork)

This is a mid-level Crit build with actual survivability. Crit enemy units take an Open Wounds, reducing hit chance by 10%. It would synergize well with this Defensive Adept. Melee Resist is 97% with Shield of Shielding and Chest of Weaponskill. Use a Physical Tome for +3 AGI and 100 Melee Resist. Opponent hit chance should be sub 10% most of the time, probably closer to 1%. You would be looking at around 50% Crit chance as well, 70% against a stunned unit. Combine with Wither for even more defense and Crit chance.

[SlaineMor]

this all makes me sad.... we should really be able to use the dirty ninja fighting claws to better effect! it's totally Skaven! helps them with movement/climbing etc... should be more effective for crits too!

[Kittenpaw]

The Assassin Adept is just pure ♥♥♥♥. He needed much better Physical starting stats to be viable. Maybe 6 STR, 5 TOUGH and 7 AGI. Think he also gets maybe 12 physical stat increase as well, which combined with his awful starting physical stats is not enough. He either has no HP, No Damage or No Survivability. Typically only gets 1 out of those 3 anyways.

[kingts]

Originally posted by Kittenpaw:

The Assassin Adept is just pure ♥♥♥♥. He needed much better Physical starting stats to be viable. Maybe 6 STR, 5 TOUGH and 7 AGI. Think he also gets maybe 12 physical stat increase as well, which combined with his awful starting physical stats is not enough. He either has no HP, No Damage or No Survivability. Typically only gets 1 out of those 3 anyways.

All how you use him Kit, he's better as stalker and not really a charge alone and kill everything in sight type, but god help ya if your in a multi fight, because when he comes, he is deep trouble.
Have to build him right...as we discussed above, but the Skaven are about team destruction, not individual overwheming power. All about timing with him.