Manticore

[Gorwe]

I just saw its HP.

WHY A DAMAGE SPONGE? It presents next to no danger! Just get 2 Warrior Priests(Sigmar's Haven faction)!

What an epic fail of game design! There should've been bombs around or ballistae or something! 2250 HP, you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kidding? 2250 HP with tickle damage, oh just for the love of...!

[Reaver79]

1000 is with 3 times order for about 200 a hit. Your also quite wrong about the pills. A possessed starts at 9 OP then DD for 3. Puts you at 6, 3 for blood offering and 3 for another attack. Your leader does WoD introspect and adrenaline rush for a total of 14 OP makeing it another 3 attacks and a buff.

[Reaver79]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1315498198

[Reaver79]

Shows stats and dmg effects on him, theres a gift of savergy on him but its like i hit a cap around that point, as they are usually in the same area without.

[Paranoia]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Did it have 2250 Health? If so, how did you kill it in two turns lol?

Weapons of Destruction spammed + Whatever the +Damage Area Spell Merga has +5 Great Axe (ignores most of the Manticore´s natural Armour Absorption) Dark Souls + 2 Tank Doomies + 2 Globadiers shooting.

And, indeed, it was two turns unless one counts the turn in between as the Manticore jumps around.


There is a reason why on Witch Hunters I am under the delusion that the Manticore had 10k+ Wounds, otherwise it´d have been too easy. My Executioner barbequed that one.

[Reaver79]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

My Executioner barbequed that one.

Nom nom! BBQ Manticore :P

[uddhava]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

1000 is with 3 times order for about 200 a hit. Your also quite wrong about the pills. A possessed starts at 9 OP then DD for 3. Puts you at 6, 3 for blood offering and 3 for another attack. Your leader does WoD introspect and adrenaline rush for a total of 14 OP makeing it another 3 attacks and a buff.

Sure, but we we're talking without Order right?
Nevertheless, definately a lot of damage.

[Reaver79]

Yes with order.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

1000 is with 3 times order for about 200 a hit. Your also quite wrong about the pills. A possessed starts at 9 OP then DD for 3. Puts you at 6, 3 for blood offering and 3 for another attack. Your leader does WoD introspect and adrenaline rush for a total of 14 OP makeing it another 3 attacks and a buff.

Wow, you sure do put a lot of thought into this, don't you? I'm just happy that I can do story + up to Brutal missions. I don't see any reason as to why pick Deadly ones.

And I'm much more of a sucker for flavor and my personal delights. And as long as it works(it works just ifne), why would I chase this crap?

[Reaver79]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

I don't see any reason as to why pick Deadly ones.

For the challenge.. A game is only fun if it.
A: Has an amazing story. (Final fantasy 7 comes to mind).
B: Challenges me in either mind or skill.
C: A longer progression. (MMO's for instance).
D: Good pvp. (sadly pvp in a game like this does little for me, but in MMO's theres been a few that where quite entertaining).
This is of course from my perspective.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Reaver79:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

I don't see any reason as to why pick Deadly ones.

For the challenge.. A game is only fun if it.
A: Has an amazing story. (Final fantasy 7 comes to mind).
B: Challenges me in either mind or skill.
C: A longer progression. (MMO's for instance).
D: Good pvp. (sadly pvp in a game like this does little for me, but in MMO's theres been a few that where quite entertaining).
This is of course from my perspective.

Fair enough. I'm just content with fun little romp in Warhammer Fantasy. And given how different the factions are(ok...Witch Hunters and Mercs aren't that different ; WHs are simply better at everything imo), this is enough for me.

Granted, I don't really have a Warhammer Fantasy game to call my own(Vermintide is the closest, but it lacks some finesse and customization of Mordheim), so there's that. I'd really love to play a Warhammer Fantasy based RPG. Even if it isn't as endless as Vermintide / Mordheim are. And certainly not as time wasterly.

Don't get me wrong. I love both Vermintide and Mordheim. It's just that I'd love to have something really juicy.

[uddhava]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

WHs are simply better at everything imo

As a Merc player, I'm curious :). Obviously I don't agree. A few examples: Mercs are much better at ranged. The MM is the undefeated Ranged henchmen of all bands I'd say, simply due to its incredibly strong passive. Warriors surpass Flaggelants in almost every respect, only lacking psy immunity. Champions and Knight are on par I'd say, both make really good tanks, the Knight has the added bonus of being immune to psy but the downside is he can't retreat, which can be deadly (for him). Youngbloods are bad units imo, so the WH wins there. The captains are rather similar, both are good at what they do (parry/dodge tanking) allthough the merc captain wins out for me due to his free counters.

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Don't get me wrong. I love both Vermintide and Mordheim. It's just that I'd love to have something really juicy.

I find Total Warhammer very juicy.

[Reaver79]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

WHs are simply better at everything imo), this is enough for me.

From everything i picked up on the board here, Merc's are if im not mistaken the best faction over all.
And as to playing either faction i dig the look of the WH, the WHC, and the WP. Where as for merc's i love the look of the champ, the Cap, and the WL, and i gotta say the Ogre (while i dont like him) is way better than the executioner in looks.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by uddhava:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

WHs are simply better at everything imo

As a Merc player, I'm curious :). Obviously I don't agree. A few examples: Mercs are much better at ranged. The MM is the undefeated Ranged henchmen of all bands I'd say, simply due to its incredibly strong passive. Warriors surpass Flaggelants in almost every respect, only lacking psy immunity. Champions and Knight are on par I'd say, both make really good tanks, the Knight has the added bonus of being immune to psy but the downside is he can't retreat, which can be deadly (for him). Youngbloods are bad units imo, so the WH wins there. The captains are rather similar, both are good at what they do (parry/dodge tanking) allthough the merc captain wins out for me due to his free counters.

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Don't get me wrong. I love both Vermintide and Mordheim. It's just that I'd love to have something really juicy.

I find Total Warhammer very juicy.

Well, WH Henchmen do suck, no doubt about that!

I was more implying about the impact of "Trial by Pain" and Warrior Priest overall. Both help IMMENSELY vs AI. Enemy got into a melee with a Knight? Good -> Trial -> Arrows / Bullets. Actually quite insane DPS. Imo:

Both Captains are fairly different units. Merc is more of a Parry Tank in melee and Burst Ranged while WH Cap is more of a Dodge Tank in melee and Sustained / Debuff Ranged. They're both fine in their own ways.

Knights are about as good as Champions. They don't have Adaptable, so that's a big minus. But then again, they don't have to worry about any checks. Both are just perfect.

Youngbloods suck something extreme. Why would I take him over any other Hero? Including LGT upgraded Henchies. No reason. Witch Hunter is very good though, both in Ranged and in Melee DPS roles.

Warlocks are...nice(I guess), but are simply outdone by Warrior Priests. The impact of properly developed WP can't be overstated. While Locks are good enough, they're nowhere near WPs.

Ogre is fair enough, but Exec is much better. The point is that Exec isn't "Large" so it opens a world of possibilities. While he isn't as silly as Maiden(tank, healer, Impressive, all on one unit ), it's still one hell of an Impressive.

In short:

M.Cap = WH.Cap
Champ = Knight
Lock < Priest
Young << WH
Ogre ~ < Exec
War > Flagellant
Mark > Zealot

Ok, maybe WHs are not THAT better, but they do employ similar tactics(tank n spank) just more efficiently. The biggest selling point of Mercs are ultra reliable Henchmen.

As for Total Warhammer...it is very good indeed. Just too detached for my liking. I prefer things like Vermintide or Mordheim or Dragon Age: Origins. Try to find the common thing between them.

Originally posted by Reaver79:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

WHs are simply better at everything imo), this is enough for me.

From everything i picked up on the board here, Merc's are if im not mistaken the best faction over all.
And as to playing either faction i dig the look of the WH, the WHC, and the WP. Where as for merc's i love the look of the champ, the Cap, and the WL, and i gotta say the Ogre (while i dont like him) is way better than the executioner in looks.

I don't care about WP's bald look at all. But his function...oh his function!

As for other I like(looks):

Mercs: Captain, Champion, Marksman

Hunters: Captain, Hunter, Knight(though he needs more head customization lol)

Chaos: Marauder, Possessed(I really don't like Coneheads ; they feel kinda out of place if cool)

Skaven: <whatever>

Sisters: <whatever>

Undead: Vampires, obviously. Everything else is...meh(which is fitting for V.Counts when you better think about it)

[Reaver79]

Theres no doubt that the WP is one of the better casters, strong spells and hits like a hammer.. (What do you know, good chance he has one)

[uddhava]

Actually, WP's utitliy not even lies in his healing ability. It is good, but its always better to do damage. Healing is mostly beneficial when using things like exhaustion and adrenaline rush: you heal up the damage that you lost by using those skills before the actual battle begings. But the WP"s other spells are much better. Things like Deny the heretic etc.
The warlock really only has one good spell: lightning bolt. But talking about DPS! its 50-65 damage per hit. If properly built he can either reliably throw out three every turn (with hit chance 95% if you use concentration and exhausation to give him the pills for it) or four every turn (with ad rush for the extra pills). Thats between 150-180 to 200-240 damage per turn. From a distance, ignoring cover, while being unreachable. Damage that is rarely if ever negated because who invests in magic resistance? Too difficult for too little gain. Meanwhile, your WP is healing at most 160 damage from those attacks. And thats the thing: you can't outheal the damage that you receive allthough vs the AI thats a different story since the AI will rarely use lignting bolt or comets in a sustained manner.
But overall, yeah the WP is very good, his (de)buffs are very strong. But in terms of raw damage the Warlock outdoes him easily. And the real kicker is, the WP is usable by mercs after an endless grind, but the warlock isnt vice versa. The Mercs can have both, the WH's can't.

On a unit by unit basis I'd say:
M.Cap = WH.Cap (agreed)
Champ = Knight (agreed)
Lock < Priest (no, I'd either say equal or warlock is better)
Young << WH (indeed, YB is very bad, allthough WH have terrible LD)
Ogre ~ < Exec (indeed, Executioners are also quite easy to kill. Of all the Imps he's in the lower category in terms of scariness)
War > Flagellant (I'd say a lot better than the flagellant, you actually make him defensible, one of the best, if not the best henchman in the game. Also makes for a good Overpower hero)
Mark > Zealot (way way better. Also makes for a good hero choice).