Do any heroes with "Born Leader" make better leaders than the default one?

[Dahoota]

As the title says. My vampire just died not long after hitting lvl 10, I'm wondering if I bother grinding another vamp up or promote my Necromancer. The vampire is obviously central to Undead warbands, but it could be very cool to have a spell casting leader. Also at higher levels the vamp's terror means much less.

I feel like Merc captains are better than Champions, as their base skill is much stronger. Not sure about the other warbands.

Possessed could make for powerful leaders too I suspect.

Thoughts?

[Rodfather]

I'm glad you posted this because I was wondering about the Merc captain vs Champion NBL as well.

[wds_ncs]

I think for Skaven if you want to run with a Roger, a Sorcerer leader might edge out an Adept so that your configuration would be something like Casting Soc/Roger/Babysitter Soc/(Runner/BS Glass Cannon). An Adept could fill one of the roles mentioned (not Casting, obv) but would likely be worse than one of the heroes.

[Prince Kaine]

If you want the best leader for each warband, mine go like this:
Sister keep the matriarch, unless you have warrior priest access.
Mercs can change for champ, but captain is better for me, then go warrior priest
Witchhunters go warrior priest.
Skavens go eshin sorcerer.
Cult stick to magister.
Undead switch to necro.

[Your Mom's Oshi]

I'm with Kaine. Magic users make the best leaders since they offer more utility. Can't go wrong with any of the choices for marcs though.

[uddhava]

Originally posted by erc:

I'm with Kaine. Magic users make the best leaders since they offer more utility. Can't go wrong with any of the choices for marcs though.

Yeah its actually strange that the warlock is not the secondary leader since the champ is quite similar to the captain

[Talithmara]

Originally posted by uddhava:

Originally posted by erc:

I'm with Kaine. Magic users make the best leaders since they offer more utility. Can't go wrong with any of the choices for marcs though.

Yeah its actually strange that the warlock is not the secondary leader since the champ is quite similar to the captain

This is probably since the Born Leader unit is ALWAYS the 3rd hero type, which can lead to bizzare situations (Cultists led by a Possessed, Vampire Thralls led by a Human Necromancer, etc.)

To be fair, the Mercenary Champion leader does have one great use: While the Captain is more about the parry, the Champion becomes harder to hit after landing a few hits. If you combine this with an MR-Boosting stance, the Champion is ideal for going toe to toe with Impressives/ Cultists/ Daemons that the Captain would have had a heck of a time with.

I personally run a Champion as my Backup Leader if the captain is wounded, so I don't need to level up a new captain. I really like it. I have them both built as melee units, so the lower ballistic skill cap on the Champion is not a problem, and it really holds it's own without being dependant on Web of Steel, making it a valuable member to rally my forces around as it holds the front line. Sure, the Hero version can do this, too, but again, it's my backup leader so I don't need to train a new captain.

[Prince Kaine]

Originally posted by uddhava:

Originally posted by erc:

I'm with Kaine. Magic users make the best leaders since they offer more utility. Can't go wrong with any of the choices for marcs though.

Yeah its actually strange that the warlock is not the secondary leader since the champ is quite similar to the captain

Agreed, it's one of the main balancing mistake they made.

[uddhava]

Originally posted by Ranylyn:

Originally posted by uddhava:

Yeah its actually strange that the warlock is not the secondary leader since the champ is quite similar to the captain

This is probably since the Born Leader unit is ALWAYS the 3rd hero type, which can lead to bizzare situations (Cultists led by a Possessed, Vampire Thralls led by a Human Necromancer, etc.)

Thats my point tho :). They shouldve made the warlock the third unlockable so you can choose between a melee/shooter on the one hand and more magic on the other.

Also, the champion doenst have to ne the leader to go toe for toe with deamons. He can do that fine as a hero unit. Better even since he doesnt have to spend points on born leader.

[Talithmara]

I personally just have my Born Leader champion as the backup leader, myself. It does work better as a hero, but since you can level one up without benching a reliable leader to level a new leader up, I found it to be convenient as a backup.

[Dahoota]

I'm not as experienced as most people in this thread it seems, but for me the Merc Captain is a hands down winner.

With web of steel, a shield and a parry chance of 150%+ he's pretty much untouchable AND pumps 2x as much damage with the free retaliations. Of course the obvious downside is attacks that can't be parried.

I think people are right in that spell casters are better leaders - they also get their Intelligence cap raised too.

Do any of the shared hirelings have the option of Born Leader?

I assume it was done for balance reasons, but I wish the candidates for the skill weren't so restricted.

[Prince Kaine]

Originally posted by Dahoota:

Do any of the shared hirelings have the option of Born Leader?

Destruction side, the necromancer, order side, the warrior priest.

[Mikey]

I much prefer having a Sorcerer leader for my Skaven, but I can't say if it's statwise stricly better or not (I usually don't run with a Rat Ogre any more, though that's how I came to use a Sorcerer as leader initially).

[Karond]

Originally posted by uddhava:

Also, the champion doenst have to ne the leader to go toe for toe with deamons. He can do that fine as a hero unit. Better even since he doesnt have to spend points on born leader.

Born leader gives you all the points you would have on a normal leader, unlike lad's got talent. All you really lose is a passive slot.

I like the champion leader, he's powerful, versatile, a natural crit machine with good defensive and offensive stats. I believe he's stronger than the captain, and he seems to be a more popular leader choice in tournaments for mercenaries too which indicates this.

The warrior priest is a good leader as well, fitting into any order warband, but often replacing the witch hunter captain. The captain isn't bad, but the warrior priest usually gets to use his passive, and his fantastic support spells bring a lot to the table. He's good because he frees up another slot for a good hero, rather than sticking with a decent but not great leader.

The Eshin sorcerer is also a good secondary leader, very versatile, support, damage, order material all in one. Since the assassin is lacking a bit, he makes a natural first choice for skaven warbands.

The necromancer is decent as a leader, but I think the vampire is just straight out better. Terror is a factor that people love to downplay, but it's pretty good, and he can be an intimidating warrior to face.

The augur and possessed are best avoided as leaders. The possessed has its own case of being useful when your hero composition doesn't need weapons of destruction, such as double necromancers and double doomweavers, and the augur can become a rather good tank if need be, but neither bring enough mechanical power to the table like the magister and the matriarch do in the vast majority of warbands.