Rat Ogre Builds

[zantesuken]

Have a high level rat ogre avaible for hire. Any builds avaible? Didn't find any useful guide on him so far, just vague advice like, "go for daredevil and black hunger" etc.
I play mostly with a minimum team of 4.

thanks

[Paranoia]

A bit more context required:

Does he have a babysitter with Guidance or not? Without, he needs an anti-stupidity headgear, which might affect how one Builds him.

[zantesuken]

yes he has. sorc, globadier and assasin leader

[zantesuken]

sorc is a buffer, assassin a dodge tank and globadier a ranged/healer

[Paranoia]

Alright. I am not exactly an accomplished Rat Ogre Builder, but here´s one (Sorcerer has Sorcerer´s Curse Mastery to remove enemy Dodge):

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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

If one wants to hit more reliably, one can use Martial Grimoire and put a few more points into Weapon Skill. If one also reduces Accuracy for more Weapon Skill, Fatality is no longer as good, and can be traded for other stuff.

So, turn in order:
1: Daredevil,
2: Black Hunger,
3: (if enough SP) Introspection
4: (if enough SP and not active) Frenzy (more important than the previous step)
5: hit stuff
6: Addrenaline Rush
7: Hit stuff more.

Sorcerer Guides him and Curses the enemies. Globadier heals him when the Skills take their toll.

As said, not an expertly built one. Just a quick proof of example. For example, ridding myself of Fatality entirely, K:Mordheim and Resilient would also work. Also, trading off some damage, Introspection for Exhaustion Mastery allows muuch more mobility.
So, another example:

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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

[zantesuken]

Thank you a lot :)

one question though , can you use introspection after frenzy? it says something about not beeing able to use non combat actions.

[Prince Kaine]

Here is how I see things.
1st bringing a dedicated support on a 4 men squad is a mistake. It impairs damages wayyy too much, and will not save your ass if your killing machine goes down.
2nd small squads are all about mobility and killing potential. You need to engage 1st, kill 1st, and make sure your troops do not get tangled in extended fights. A classical 4 men mission will be decided within 2, 3 max battle turn, meaning the healing is a liability, when instead of giving 90 HP to a guy in 1 turn you can deal 150 to 200 damages to an enemy unit.
For those reasons I won't take a RO with your squad as it is now.

After that for the build itself, taking into consideration what I said previously, I'd go for something like this:

Unit profile: Rat Ogre

Attributes:
===========
Strength: 20
Toughness: 20
Agility: 8
Leadership: 15
Intelligence: 9
Alertness: 17
Weapon Skill: 19
Ballistic Skill: 3
Accuracy: 17

Skills:
=======
Fear Basic, Daredevil Mastery, Black Hunger Mastery, Adrenaline Rush Mastery, Knowledge: Mordheim Basic, Frenzy Mastery, Hardy Mastery, Strider Mastery, Nimble Basic

Books:
==========
Tome of Abilities, Martial Grimore, Book of Training: Weapon Skill

Equipment:
==========
Amulet (masterwork), Clothing (masterwork), Bracers (masterwork)

For the runes lucidity on the pendant (no more stupidity test) weapon skill on the armour (you cannot afford those attacks to miss) and armour penetration on the bracers (to deal with armour, a stat that WILL bother you).

I'd pair him with another DPS (the leader probably), also built as a glass canon with high mobility and high crit, and 2 warpguards in heavy armour specialized in MR and HP. The warpguards open the path and engage, the DPS come in and clean up. For this to work you need of course to be very good with your positioning AND be very carefull never to overextend with the DPS (ideally they should be 30 to 40 meters away from your scouts). If you prefer to run 4 heroes I'd go with a 3rd DPS (black skaven built for armour piercing this time) and a tank mutant ultra specialized in MR.

Edit: With this build your RO will hit a guy in heavy armour for 200+ damages, and kill everything but an impressive with 1 or 2 attacks.

[Paranoia]

Originally posted by zantesuken:

one question though , can you use introspection after frenzy? it says something about not beeing able to use non combat actions.

Those two were supposed to be the other way around. Don´t know how that one happened. Editing, I guess.

[Paranoia]

Though that does not work unless within Charge range, due to the fact that SP runs out.

Also, Leader having Order Mastery and fully discounted allows the Rat Ogre to kill even more stuff.

The second example is a better one.

[zantesuken]

thank you all :)

[miniaaar]

Black Hunger Mastery + Daredevil Mastery + Frenzy mastery is a bit overkill for my taste. I prefer to replace M.Frenzy by M.Exhaustion which allows much more movement when needed.

I also don't take M. Adrenaline rush because I have a sorcerer leader with M.Order who's bringing the additional attacks, but for a 4men team, I agree that a support character isn't what you want. As Kaine said, Rat Ogre / Damage Dealing Leader / 2 tanks is probably the most efficient.

Other than that, Daredevil, Black Hunger and Hardy are the usual skills to take for any respectable Rat Ogre.

I do not believe Weak Spot is necessary to negate dodge. Indeed, Black Hunger provides 40% bypass, so does 20 Acc. 80% is enough to bypass all non-dodge specialist, and for those, just don't use Daredevil but charge instead. They are most likely in cloth and thus will be destroyed without Daredevil anyway.
In larger teams, you have your sorcerer with Sorcerer's curse for a 110% dodge bypass, or even 125% with basic wither.

If you want your Rat Ogre to destroy units on his own, M.Insult is also a skill to consider in my opinion.
Basically, something like this[www.pyrospace.co.uk] is a good base to work with.

[Icanem]

Awesome threat, I will take some ideas. Thanks guys!