Deadly and Brutal Missions.

[VoiceGS]

Hey.

I've seen some youtubers doing a lot of Brutal or Deadly missions. Is there something you need to prepare well in advance for? Like have some good skills. Make sure you Warband is deverse enough to handle every situation?

At the moment I'm playing a Witch Hunter Warband and I originally had my Captain as ranged but he ended up getting that injury where he can't use range weapons anymore. It wasn't so bad as he was only level one when it happened so now I have speced him out as a 2h, Strong Attack Side Stepping powerhouse. I have a smuggler who just learned Sniper Shot, A Templar Knight who is a excellent tank. Wolf Priest of Ulric has just learned Winter's Chill and I'm thinking of getting him a melee attack that may be debuffs something.

My henchmen are most Flagellants. Where my Zealot is also a tank.

But, I'm not really confident on my abilities to do a Brutal or Deadly mission. I can do hard no issues. (Well I usually loose one or three troops.)

Is there any tips you can give me that could help me prepare well for these missions and also on a side note. I'm new to this game. I have played for about a week now. But, this Warband has been so far a successful one.

Thanks.

Voice

[Paranoia]

Brutal and Deadly can be done any time. I do them Mission 2 onward, since Mission 1 is Normals only.
But they do require one to know what they're doing, or one gets brutally sodomised.

Funny enough, Brutal and Deadly are actually easier in early and late game, since midgame the enemy gets stuff but one doesn't yet have their Builds ready to kick a**e.

[Reaver79]

Just be aware that upon reaching WB rank 5 you can be subject to ambushes and ambushing the enemy on brutal/deadly, and also upon attaining a rank 5 (or is it 6) warrior you run the risk of deamons on those difficulties.
Both can drastically change a fight from beeing a walkover to going all to hell..
Ambushed by a fast WB will mean you likely gets locked down (damn them skavens) and might even lose a warrior or 2 before you get to take any actions (worst case scenario). Ambushing is actually worse unless you have a high mobillity, as your spread out around the enemy and they will rush to 1 side and engage 1 group.
Also a poorly placed daemon (especially plauge bearer & Daemonettes) tend to be devastating imo. If you run into them its usually best to pull back and let them come to you and fight them without enemy joining in, as they are quick to take advantage of the situation.

[Prince Kaine]

Advice 1, trim down your WR as much as possible.
Advice 2, if you've never done some wait until you can have your warband in purple gear, especially if it's not maxxed out, because the equipment is the most cost efficient thing in Mordheim AND the last thing the AI invest on when generating the enemy band.
Advice 3, start with controlled grouped deployements (Scavengers, Rival in the ruins and Walk in the fog)
Advice 4, do it when you have good tanks. In PvE tanking is probably the most important as long as you are not very good.

For example if you go in deadly with 6/8 units with just maxxed AG, sidestep on everybody, purple shirts and purple weapons you should trample the AI without any issue, because you come in with the best offensive tools and the most versatile defense, when in front the AI will spread points and will have some defenseless units.

It is also easier done with psy immune/resilient warbands (witchhunters are amongst those so no issue for this), because you will not be punished as hard if you end up outnumbered at the start due to some bad rolls/positioning.


Honestly, if you loose peopleregularly in hard/normal you should probably wait a bit.

[Rodfather]

If you are taking 3 OOA on Hard you are prob not ready for Brutal (an extra 15% hp and dmg buff compared to Hard). I would wait until you have mastered the map knowledge before you try. After 25 Brutal missions I avg just under 1 OOA per match which is prob the same as Hard but I will take alot more general dmg to my troops. The main diff being I can get hit for 3 OOA which happened twice, once being an ambush where I lost a guy before I got to act. As well, I may have had up to 10 Demons/Chaos Ogres spawn but only in one scenario did I get attacked first - that Bloodletter did not really like my Smuggler. Wrydstone wise I prob average 30 more pounds which is not that good (50 pounds higher maxim), but sometimes the fights are so intense I cant scavenge as much (compared to looting the whole map on Hard). Experience wise, I should also doing better but I have only done the optional objectives maybe 3-4 times on Brutal compared to Hard where I have a decent shot. That is an important point to consider as the optional objective is worth 3 xp and decisive victory is worth another xp so you may in fact get more xp doing Hard missions vs Brutal. I think, ultimately, if you are looting the whole map on Hard and doing the optional objective, then it may be time to step to Brutal.

[The Punchmaster]

Originally posted by Rodfather:

If you are taking 3 OOA on Hard you are prob not ready for Brutal (an extra 15% hp and dmg buff compared to Hard). I would wait until you have mastered the map knowledge before you try. After 25 Brutal missions I avg just under 1 OOA per match which is prob the same as Hard but I will take alot more general dmg to my troops. The main diff being I can get hit for 3 OOA which happened twice, once being an ambush where I lost a guy before I got to act. As well, I may have had up to 10 Demons/Chaos Ogres spawn but only in one scenario did I get attacked first - that Bloodletter did not really like my Smuggler. Wrydstone wise I prob average 30 more pounds which is not that good (50 pounds higher maxim), but sometimes the fights are so intense I cant scavenge as much (compared to looting the whole map on Hard). Experience wise, I should also doing better but I have only done the optional objectives maybe 3-4 times on Brutal compared to Hard where I have a decent shot. That is an important point to consider as the optional objective is worth 3 xp and decisive victory is worth another xp so you may in fact get more xp doing Hard missions vs Brutal. I think, ultimately, if you are looting the whole map on Hard and doing the optional objective, then it may be time to step to Brutal.

I admit to being new, but I so rarely seem to be able to do optional objectives. I did warpstone rush once when a bunch of it spawned right next to me. I did 1 bounty mission (otherwise they're always never around me), and I did one capture their relic, but only because our carts legit spawed on the same street within eye sight from each other so my Vamp leader did it in 1 turn.

Each map basically seems to go I move slowly and scavenge, and then an enemy appears, and then another, and it becomes a flood, and then eventually there is a route. I never get a chance to loot after that.

Should I just have a runner dreg who's job it is to not fight go around looting while they're fighting? It just feels weird to have them all not in combat to prevent as many OOA's as possible.

Warband is a new necro, globadier, hunchback, 2 zombies, thrall, vamp, and the rest ghouls.

Amusing side note is that my Zombie has more WR than anyone else in the party. He's a beast.

[Paranoia]

Originally posted by The Punchmaster:

dreg

Dregg is kinda slow for a Collector. I personally have everyone on very opportunistic looting duty. Some use fast Characters with K:Mordheim and/or SP generating Skills.
Thrall would work as a collector better.

With your current setup, I recommend the opportuunistic looting route.

[The Punchmaster]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

Originally posted by The Punchmaster:

dreg

Dregg is kinda slow for a Collector. I personally have everyone on very opportunistic looting duty. Some use fast Characters with K:Mordheim and/or SP generating Skills.
Thrall would work as a collector better.

With your current setup, I recommend the opportuunistic looting route.

Ah I assume by OLD you mean just move as one (as I try to do as UD), and loot as we come across stuff?

I've been using ghouls because they have high initiative (except for my beast zombie and sometimes thrall) and move like 5 spaces, which is basically as high as anything else. My dreg (or hunchback I've been calling him) sticks to behind my zombie/vampires.

I made a mistake and put dreg instead of ghoul. What I've been using are ghouls to run and grab stuff mostly.

[Paranoia]

Originally posted by The Punchmaster:

Ah I assume by OLD you mean just move as one (as I try to do as UD), and loot as we come across stuff?

A bit of that. And breaking out of fights the others can handle to loot more stuff.

For example, with my Mercs I have two Marksmen running around looting when others fight fights they can handle.

[Your Mom's Oshi]

My opinion on this is that if you can do 12 Normal/Hard missions in a row with less than 3 OOAs then you should be adding the higher difficulties to the mix.

[Rodfather]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

Originally posted by The Punchmaster:

dreg

Dregg is kinda slow for a Collector. I personally have everyone on very opportunistic looting duty. Some use fast Characters with K:Mordheim and/or SP generating Skills.
Thrall would work as a collector better.

With your current setup, I recommend the opportuunistic looting route.

Yeah the Vampire Thrall is good for looting, even though mine cant carry much, they are first units that I have had ever that can go loot, deposit stone in cart, and still get into the main melee just a bit late.

[VoiceGS]

Hey.

Thank you all for the comments. Sorry I'm just now replying back as I was at work from Saturday till now.

Well. The highest level soldier I have is my 2h leader and he is either 5 or 6 at the moment. Can't really remember. Sadly I lost some good flagellant henchmen and a nice zealot tank so now I'm trying to catch up and level them.

Also my best Flagellant got knocked out and the matriach stole his two blue weapons and before I could get them back she was killed via a overwatch and then they immediately routed and couldn't get them back.

So I think I will wait till I have purple gear before I try them out.

Voice

[Red Bat]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

Funny enough, Brutal and Deadly are actually easier in early and late game, since midgame the enemy gets stuff but one doesn't yet have their Builds ready to kick a**e.

Not always. Your first match vs Sisters of Sigmar could easily have them ALL have heavy armor, which usually means 4-5 more hits before scoring a kill on Deadly. Without some sort of preparations like Warp Poison, a good defensive setup on high ground, or stacked buffs; you could easily lose like 2-3 characters in one turn while you barely manage to take one of them to half health.

Originally posted by Reaver79:

Just be aware that upon reaching WB rank 5 you can be subject to ambushes and ambushing the enemy on brutal/deadly, and also upon attaining a rank 5 (or is it 6) warrior you run the risk of deamons on those difficulties.
Both can drastically change a fight from beeing a walkover to going all to hell..
Ambushed by a fast WB will mean you likely gets locked down (damn them skavens) and might even lose a warrior or 2 before you get to take any actions (worst case scenario). Ambushing is actually worse unless you have a high mobillity, as your spread out around the enemy and they will rush to 1 side and engage 1 group.
Also a poorly placed daemon (especially plauge bearer & Daemonettes) tend to be devastating imo. If you run into them its usually best to pull back and let them come to you and fight them without enemy joining in, as they are quick to take advantage of the situation.

I think the daemon appearances are actually triggered by having an individual character at a certain rank, rather than Warband level. Also I think they only spawn on Brutal and Deadly.

Originally posted by The Punchmaster:

Should I just have a runner dreg who's job it is to not fight go around looting while they're fighting? It just feels weird to have them all not in combat to prevent as many OOA's as possible.

I usually send a wounded character running around collecting as I don't want them falling out of action. Otherwise it depends on which warband I am. You REALLY don't want to split up the Sisters of Sigmar unless you absolutely have to, and the Human Mercenaries tend to prioritize getting their marksmen into good positions over collection, but the Skaven almost seem built around splitting up and collecting wyrdstone, while the undead lose almost nothing by risking a zombie to collect a few wyrdstone shards and clusters. I usually complete the bonus objectives about half the time as Skaven, and almost never as Human Mercs or Sisters.

[Talithmara]

Clarification on Daemon Spawning:

I read somewhere - and believe I may have once encountered this myself - that it's based on the rank of everyone on the battlefield, not just player characters. So if you have a team of all rank 4-5 characters but they're rather high ranking for their level (Blue/Purple gear across the board, skills trained, etc) the enemy could potentially field a rank 7 with lesser gear (Decently likely; if the enemy was decked out in good gear, that would basically be a handout to players who could get a kill.) This would make it possible for a daemon to spawn when your rank is too low for it.

[Your Mom's Oshi]

Originally posted by Ranylyn:

Clarification on Daemon Spawning:

I read somewhere - and believe I may have once encountered this myself - that it's based on the rank of everyone on the battlefield, not just player characters. So if you have a team of all rank 4-5 characters but they're rather high ranking for their level (Blue/Purple gear across the board, skills trained, etc) the enemy could potentially field a rank 7 with lesser gear (Decently likely; if the enemy was decked out in good gear, that would basically be a handout to players who could get a kill.) This would make it possible for a daemon to spawn when your rank is too low for it.

This is true and is a great way to get some extra experience for a lower level leader/impressive.

[Prince Kaine]

Originally posted by Ranylyn:

Clarification on Daemon Spawning:

I read somewhere - and believe I may have once encountered this myself - that it's based on the rank of everyone on the battlefield, not just player characters. So if you have a team of all rank 4-5 characters but they're rather high ranking for their level (Blue/Purple gear across the board, skills trained, etc) the enemy could potentially field a rank 7 with lesser gear (Decently likely; if the enemy was decked out in good gear, that would basically be a handout to players who could get a kill.) This would make it possible for a daemon to spawn when your rank is too low for it.

It is true, I've tested it quite extensively 4 or 5 months ago while a lot of players were complaining abvout a 'bug' making daemons appear while they had no characters 6 or above.
If you want to reproduce it bring an all lvl 5 warband fully trained and fully geared in purple, that's the way I managed to spawn daemons without a lvl 6 character.