Impressive Impressions: Wow, Mercenary Ogre - but what about the Maiden?

[Lampros]

I have so far been reluctant to play with Impressives, because they1) are aesthetically unpleasant; and 2) seemed not worth 2 Hero slot, given all the negatives he brings to the table (unable to enter buildings or use certain paths, unable to loot, etc.). But I test leveled the free Rank 7 Mercenary Ogre to Rank 10, and my view has done a 180 degree turn. I am now a true believer, and I am stunned at his efficiency. Offensively he is an absolute juggernaut, seemingly scoring a Critical Hit every other swing (and he bangs out 5 normal dual wield swings or 3 Vital Strike swings plus 1 normal swing, since I gave him Adrenaline Rush [Basic]); and defensively he is almost never hit unless he is being hit with counter-attacks, since he has a whopping 130 Dodge and Sidestep (Master). He is basically a dedicated damage dealer and a tank rolled into one body. And unlike alternative Mercenary Heroes I could have fielded, he has a massive health pool (520), he is fast (Knowledge: Mordheim [Master]), and he usually acts first before any others (89 Initiative). He is so awesome that I do not even feel I am missing the LGT Marksman I dropped in favor who used to be the #1 damage dealer in virtually every battle. Heck, I like him even more than my Champions!

So I am looking to use Impressives a lot more in my other warbands, too; but I am not sure if I will enjoy either the Executioner or the Maiden as much. In particular, I am worried about how I ought to build the Maiden to do what I want Impressives to do - to be fast, act early, and do both damage and tank. In fact, I think it's virtually impossible to have a Maiden that can have Initiative that hovers around 90 due to both her heavy armor and relatively lower Alertness ceiling; and as for defense, other than heavy armor, what is there for her to rely on? She cannot really be built into a Dodge tank - unlike the Ogre or the Executioner. Should I just go a shield/1H and make her a Melee Resistance tank/damage dealer hybrid?

[Paranoia]

İlk olarak Lampros tarafından gönderildi:

And, yes, no spells on her! ;)

Frankly, the whole Spell selection on her is too supporty in nature to be of much use at all.
Which is why I only train the healing, rock lobbing and extra damage on her for the few occasions they would be relevant at all.

[3rd Dementor]

İlk olarak Lampros tarafından gönderildi:

In fact, I think it's virtually impossible to have a Maiden that can have Initiative that hovers around 90 due to both her heavy armor and relatively lower Alertness ceiling; and as for defense, other than heavy armor, what is there for her to rely on? She cannot really be built into a Dodge tank

You're right about the initiative, but I beg to differ about the Maiden's potential as a dodge tank. As unintuitive as it may be, if you max her agility and throw in Avoid Mastery, you're already at 95%. Of course, we want to go a little higher than that, and to that end you can throw in a +4 Agility rune or, as demonstrated in the following build, Prayer of Swiftness:

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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

Getting Mastery on Prayer of Swiftness might not be worth it, since if you leave it at basic you can select 2 mastered skills.

Built this way, the Maiden can dodge for days while still packing a decent punch. And unlike most of her fellow impressives, she can pick stuff up, walk through doors, climb and jump down, laugh at ranged units, and perhaps most importantly: she ain't ugly.

That said, simply having to use skill points on Prayer of Swiftness and Avoid is a disadvantage in itself, that folks like the Executioner don't have. No denying that, but just saying the Maiden can in fact be built for dodge.

[FCauldron]

İlk olarak Lampros tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak FCauldron tarafından gönderildi:

Both absolutely need Resilent master and maiden also absolutely need armour proficiency.
Both can be build for crit and both for dodge "tanking" on top of 40 MR at least, so for me are kind of similar, maiden being tankier (armour) but also slower and with lower initiative sadly.
On an additional note do not make her a caster, just ignore that part.

The huge knock on Maiden is that she needs that Armor Proficiency (Master) on top of Resilience (Master). And the Ogre does not need either. I did, however, work out a Maiden with dual Flails that is relatively fast on the Initiative race. Are flails bad on her due to the reduction of Critical Hit chance?

And, yes, no spells on her! ;)

It depends on playstile, I like all my characters to move close in the initiative, that way a henchemen can attack before the maiden and the enemy won't dodge or Parry damage dealers attacks but the hench ones, waste their counter attacks (but that is not a big deal with this girl) etc...
Her base crit Chance is 27, +10 fatality +20 vital strike, it goes to 57 which is not the best in game but quite good IMO, and you could always mix flail and sigmarite hammer to get your desired initiative if needed, those are two of the best weapons in game much better than axe and sword IMO... comparing the available weapons for Executioner and Maiden.

[Lampros]

İlk olarak 3rd Dementor tarafından gönderildi:

You're right about the initiative, but I beg to differ about the Maiden's potential as a dodge tank. As unintuitive as it may be, if you max her agility and throw in Avoid Mastery, you're already at 95%. Of course, we want to go a little higher than that, and to that end you can throw in a +4 Agility rune or, as demonstrated in the following build, Prayer of Swiftness:

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#eyJwIjoibWFpZGVuX29mX3NpZ21hciIsImEiOnsicyI6OCwidCI6MCwiYWciOjgsImwiOjQsImkiOjcsImFsIjo2LCJ3Ijo0LCJiIjowLCJhYyI6OH0sImUiOnsiaCI6eyJuIjoiaGVsbWV0IiwidiI6Im1hc3RlcndvcmsifSwiYiI6eyJuIjoiaGVhdnkiLCJ2IjoibWFzdGVyd29yayJ9LCJtIjp7Im4iOiJzaWdtYXJpdGVfd2FyaGFtbWVyIiwidiI6Im1hc3RlcndvcmsifSwibyI6eyJuIjoic2lnbWFyaXRlX3dhcmhhbW1lciIsInYiOiJtYXN0ZXJ3b3JrIn19LCJzayI6W3sibiI6InNpZ21hcnNfY2hvc2VuIiwidCI6MCwidiI6MH0seyJuIjoiYXJtb3VyX3Byb2ZpY2llbnQiLCJ0IjowLCJ2IjoxfSx7Im4iOiJhdm9pZCIsInQiOjAsInYiOjF9LHsibiI6ImZhdGFsaXR5IiwidCI6MCwidiI6MX0seyJuIjoicHJheWVyX29mX3N3aWZ0bmVzcyIsInQiOjEsInYiOjF9LHsibiI6InNpZGVzdGVwIiwidCI6MSwidiI6MX1dLCJzcCI6W3sibiI6InNpbmZ1bF9zcGVlY2giLCJ2IjowfV0sIm0iOltdLCJpIjpbXSwiYiI6W119

Getting Mastery on Prayer of Swiftness might not be worth it, since if you leave it at basic you can select 2 mastered skills.

Built this way, the Maiden can dodge for days while still packing a decent punch. And unlike most of her fellow impressives, she can pick stuff up, walk through doors, climb and jump down, laugh at ranged units, and perhaps most importantly: she ain't ugly.

6 Toughness is just not a reasonable number for me on any unit, let alone an Impressive. But I suppose I can juggle the stats a bit and come up with which I am more comfortable...

[Lampros]

İlk olarak FCauldron tarafından gönderildi:

It depends on playstile, I like all my characters to move close in the initiative, that way a henchemen can attack before the maiden and the enemy won't dodge or Parry damage dealers attacks but the hench ones, waste their counter attacks (but that is not a big deal with this girl) etc...
Her base crit Chance is 27, +10 fatality +20 vital strike, it goes to 57 which is not the best in game but quite good IMO, and you could always mix flail and sigmarite hammer to get your desired initiative if needed, those are two of the best weapons in game much better than axe and sword IMO... comparing the available weapons for Executioner and Maiden.

I like my tanks or tankish characters to move fast in the Initiative tree, since the AI tends to attack the unit it sees first...

[FCauldron]

This may have been piled by the comments, so here it is again.

This is the Maiden build I have used. Armour of agility, helmet of dodge and plenty of room for books on what you may want.

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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

[Lampros]

İlk olarak FCauldron tarafından gönderildi:

This may have been piled by the comments, so here it is again.

This is the Maiden build I have used. Armour of agility, helmet of dodge and plenty of room for books on what you may want.

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#eyJwIjoibWFpZGVuX29mX3NpZ21hciIsImEiOnsicyI6MCwidCI6OSwiYWciOjcsImwiOjQsImkiOjcsImFsIjo2LCJ3Ijo2LCJiIjowLCJhYyI6Nn0sImUiOnsiaCI6eyJuIjoiaGVsbWV0IiwidiI6Im1hc3RlcndvcmsifSwiYiI6eyJuIjoiaGVhdnkiLCJ2IjoibWFzdGVyd29yayJ9LCJtIjp7Im4iOiJzaWdtYXJpdGVfd2FyaGFtbWVyIiwidiI6Im1hc3RlcndvcmsifSwibyI6eyJuIjoic2lnbWFyaXRlX3dhcmhhbW1lciIsInYiOiJtYXN0ZXJ3b3JrIn19LCJzayI6W3sibiI6InNpZ21hcnNfY2hvc2VuIiwidCI6MCwidiI6MH0seyJuIjoicmVzaWxpZW50IiwidCI6MCwidiI6MX0seyJuIjoiYXZvaWQiLCJ0IjowLCJ2IjoxfSx7Im4iOiJhcm1vdXJfcHJvZmljaWVudCIsInQiOjAsInYiOjF9LHsibiI6ImZhdGFsaXR5IiwidCI6MCwidiI6MX0seyJuIjoic2lkZXN0ZXAiLCJ0IjoxLCJ2IjoxfSx7Im4iOiJ2aXRhbF9zdHJpa2UiLCJ0IjoxLCJ2IjoxfSx7Im4iOiJwcmF5ZXJfb2Zfc3dpZnRuZXNzIiwidCI6MSwidiI6MH1dLCJzcCI6W3sibiI6InNpbmZ1bF9zcGVlY2giLCJ2IjowfV0sIm0iOltdLCJpIjpbXSwiYiI6W119

Yeah, this looks closer to what I want. But the problem is that once I substitute the Sigmarite hammers with flails to get the Initiative, then I am not sure if she justifies 2 slots in terms of damage. 12 Strength and far lower Critical Hit chance than other Impressives...

I just think the Mercenary Ogre and the Executioner are far superior options. If she could even get light armor, then I would have judged her far more useful...

[FCauldron]

You could use the books for more crit or more strength, even ditch prayer for insult as she is in heavy armour.
And she can be very useful, as she can loot and walk everywhere, but of course it depends on style.
I find odd that the devs invested time and resources to make every impressive unique or be played with his/her flavor and style and in general we try to force almost the same build on them, lol. You know make the ogre a dodger with books, etc...