Impressive Impressions: Wow, Mercenary Ogre - but what about the Maiden?

[Lampros]

I have so far been reluctant to play with Impressives, because they1) are aesthetically unpleasant; and 2) seemed not worth 2 Hero slot, given all the negatives he brings to the table (unable to enter buildings or use certain paths, unable to loot, etc.). But I test leveled the free Rank 7 Mercenary Ogre to Rank 10, and my view has done a 180 degree turn. I am now a true believer, and I am stunned at his efficiency. Offensively he is an absolute juggernaut, seemingly scoring a Critical Hit every other swing (and he bangs out 5 normal dual wield swings or 3 Vital Strike swings plus 1 normal swing, since I gave him Adrenaline Rush [Basic]); and defensively he is almost never hit unless he is being hit with counter-attacks, since he has a whopping 130 Dodge and Sidestep (Master). He is basically a dedicated damage dealer and a tank rolled into one body. And unlike alternative Mercenary Heroes I could have fielded, he has a massive health pool (520), he is fast (Knowledge: Mordheim [Master]), and he usually acts first before any others (89 Initiative). He is so awesome that I do not even feel I am missing the LGT Marksman I dropped in favor who used to be the #1 damage dealer in virtually every battle. Heck, I like him even more than my Champions!

So I am looking to use Impressives a lot more in my other warbands, too; but I am not sure if I will enjoy either the Executioner or the Maiden as much. In particular, I am worried about how I ought to build the Maiden to do what I want Impressives to do - to be fast, act early, and do both damage and tank. In fact, I think it's virtually impossible to have a Maiden that can have Initiative that hovers around 90 due to both her heavy armor and relatively lower Alertness ceiling; and as for defense, other than heavy armor, what is there for her to rely on? She cannot really be built into a Dodge tank - unlike the Ogre or the Executioner. Should I just go a shield/1H and make her a Melee Resistance tank/damage dealer hybrid?

[Lampros]

By the way, this was the build I used. I gave the Ogre the +4 Agility armor Rune, so he had 130 Dodge. It may have been an overkill, but you know survival is the first priority for me:

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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%3D%3D

[Paranoia]

Yeah, I never liked Maiden much. Once I got to the point where I think she is adequate there wasn't much left to customize with.

Executioner, on the other hand, is hilarious. Something akin to my Build to be edited in.

[BlackDev]

Havn't played much other warbands besides mercenaries (a while ago) and just recently my undead one. Never felt the need to go without that ogre for the mercenaries. He is truly amazing and saved my day several times. I do not quite remember the build for him but he was a dodge tank too. Never reached his maximal level though.

For the undead, I can field other good units and not feel weaker by not bringing the crypt horror. But on the same time, I can field the crypt horror with just two other heroes and do not miss anything either.

For comparison, thats my current crypt horror build:
http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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%3D%3D

Quite similar to the ogre and if I find a skill book for him, he'll learn prowl too. That said he is also not already on his maximal level but on a good way there.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by BlackDev:

Havn't played much other warbands besides mercenaries (a while ago) and just recently my undead one. Never felt the need to go without that ogre for the mercenaries. He is truly amazing and saved my day several times. I do not quite remember the build for him but he was a dodge tank too. Never reached his maximal level though.

For the undead, I can field other good units and not feel weaker by not bringing the crypt horror. But on the same time, I can field the crypt horror with just two other heroes and do not miss anything either.

For comparison, thats my current crypt horror build:
http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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%3D%3D

Quite similar to the ogre and if I find a skill book for him, he'll learn prowl too. That said he is also not already on his maximal level but on a good way there.

The only thing I found strange was: Do you really need 61 percent Critical Hit Resistance? ;)

[Paranoia]

This is not quite what I used, but somewhat close enough:

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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%3D%3D

Put +4 Accuracy to Cloth, and Crit Runes of choise and go eat everything alive.
Myself used two Wolfies to stack Buffs with.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

This is not quite what I used, but somewhat close enough:

http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#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%3D%3D

Put +4 Accuracy to Cloth, and Crit Runes of choise and go eat everything alive.
Myself used two Wolfies to stack Buffs with.

Yup. You have a higher risk threshhold: I would never use cloth on a melee; and I think Adrenaline Rush (Master) is too much! ;)

[Ohio9]

To me the biggest problem is that impressives don't come till rank 5. By then, having a rank 0 impressive is a setback since the rival warband's impressive will be ranked higher. Your only other option is to get one as a hired sword. But this is also an issue because they are insanely expensive, even low ranking ones.

That, in combination with losing a slot for 3 heroes, is why I still haven't gotten one yet even midway through a rank 8 warband. I do plan to get one when it is feasible, but that still might not be for a long time.

It seems like the whole impressive feature was not implemented well in this game. You should be able to get them earlier on, so their rank is not disproportionately below that of your warband, and you shouldn't have to lose any hero slots to get them. They should just have their own slot for which you can only use them.

[BlackDev]

To me the biggest problem is that impressives don't come till rank 5

Never actually had much problems with my first level 0 impressives for mercenaries and undead when I got them asap.

The only thing I found strange was: Do you really need 61 percent Critical Hit Resistance? ;)

I spend so much money on that big ugly monstrosity, I don't want him to suffer from such ♥♥♥♥

[Paranoia]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Yup. You have a higher risk threshhold: I would never use cloth on a melee; and I think Adrenaline Rush (Master) is too much! ;)

Cloth is kinda relevant when one creates a Dodge Tank. It is not like anything lives long enough in contact with the Executioner for the Armour Absorption to really matter.
As for Addrenaline Rush, Warrior Priest exists for a reason. :b

...
The Build I posted couldn't be exactly that, considering I also had Force of Will... Well, close enough.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Ohio9:

It seems like the whole impressive feature was not implemented well in this game.

For once I will agree with you without any reservations.

Originally posted by BlackDev:

I spend so much money on that big ugly monstrosity, I don't want him to suffer from such ♥♥♥♥

Is this guy designed to PvP? Because not even daemonettes have Critical Hit Rate that high, I think! ;)

Originally posted by Paranoia:

Cloth is kinda relevant when one creates a Dodge Tank. It is not like anything lives long enough in contact with the Executioner for the Armour Absorption to really matter.

But you don't need cloth with Impressives to reach 125 percent or so Dodge you need to consistently have 95 percent Dodge in practice...

[Paranoia]

Originally posted by Lampros:

But you don't need cloth with Impressives to reach 125 percent or so Dodge you need to consistently have 95 percent Dodge in practice...

You do not get many Dual Daggers, Extra Arms nor Spears against you, I gather?

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Paranoia:

You do not get many Dual Daggers, Extra Arms nor Spears against you, I gather?

Not on a regular basis v. the AI....

[FCauldron]

Originally posted by Lampros:

So I am looking to use Impressives a lot more in my other warbands, too; but I am not sure if I will enjoy either the Executioner or the Maiden as much. In particular, I am worried about how I ought to build the Maiden to do what I want Impressives to do - to be fast, act early, and do both damage and tank. In fact, I think it's virtually impossible to have a Maiden that can have Initiative that hovers around 90 due to both her heavy armor and relatively lower Alertness ceiling; and as for defense, other than heavy armor, what is there for her to rely on? She cannot really be built into a Dodge tank - unlike the Ogre or the Executioner. Should I just go a shield/1H and make her a Melee Resistance tank/damage dealer hybrid?

Both absolutely need Resilent master and maiden also absolutely need armour proficiency.
Both can be build for crit and both for dodge "tanking" on top of 40 MR at least, so for me are kind of similar, maiden being tankier (armour) but also slower and with lower initiative sadly.
On an additional note do not make her a caster, just ignore that part.

Edit:
This is the Maiden build I have used.
http://www.pyrospace.co.uk/mordheim/#eyJwIjoibWFpZGVuX29mX3NpZ21hciIsImEiOnsicyI6MCwidCI6OSwiYWciOjcsImwiOjQsImkiOjcsImFsIjo2LCJ3Ijo2LCJiIjowLCJhYyI6Nn0sImUiOnsiaCI6eyJuIjoiaGVsbWV0IiwidiI6Im1hc3RlcndvcmsifSwiYiI6eyJuIjoiaGVhdnkiLCJ2IjoibWFzdGVyd29yayJ9LCJtIjp7Im4iOiJzaWdtYXJpdGVfd2FyaGFtbWVyIiwidiI6Im1hc3RlcndvcmsifSwibyI6eyJuIjoic2lnbWFyaXRlX3dhcmhhbW1lciIsInYiOiJtYXN0ZXJ3b3JrIn19LCJzayI6W3sibiI6InNpZ21hcnNfY2hvc2VuIiwidCI6MCwidiI6MH0seyJuIjoicmVzaWxpZW50IiwidCI6MCwidiI6MX0seyJuIjoiYXZvaWQiLCJ0IjowLCJ2IjoxfSx7Im4iOiJhcm1vdXJfcHJvZmljaWVudCIsInQiOjAsInYiOjF9LHsibiI6ImZhdGFsaXR5IiwidCI6MCwidiI6MX0seyJuIjoic2lkZXN0ZXAiLCJ0IjoxLCJ2IjoxfSx7Im4iOiJ2aXRhbF9zdHJpa2UiLCJ0IjoxLCJ2IjoxfSx7Im4iOiJwcmF5ZXJfb2Zfc3dpZnRuZXNzIiwidCI6MSwidiI6MH1dLCJzcCI6W3sibiI6InNpbmZ1bF9zcGVlY2giLCJ2IjowfV0sIm0iOltdLCJpIjpbXSwiYiI6W119

[Stardustfire]

The Executioner is the most brutal thing in the lot of the 6 avaible big guys. he can climb and use doorways normal like the maidden, only looting is denied to him. but with him doing all this hacking and massacring of the heretics in one row at the frontline, the other WB members have enove time to wipe up behind him and do the looting part. for me the Executioner is the most fun and best WB integreated imp. specialy his special that is an AE buff blends perfect in.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by FCauldron:

Both absolutely need Resilent master and maiden also absolutely need armour proficiency.
Both can be build for crit and both for dodge "tanking" on top of 40 MR at least, so for me are kind of similar, maiden being tankier (armour) but also slower and with lower initiative sadly.
On an additional note do not make her a caster, just ignore that part.

The huge knock on Maiden is that she needs that Armor Proficiency (Master) on top of Resilience (Master). And the Ogre does not need either. I did, however, work out a Maiden with dual Flails that is relatively fast on the Initiative race. Are flails bad on her due to the reduction of Critical Hit chance?

And, yes, no spells on her! ;)