A frustrating start

[Ohio9]

I gotta say I'm about to give up on this game. I want to like it. I love the Warhammer franchise and I like tactical turn based RPGs.

And yet this one is making me want to tear my hair out. The hard difficulty and perma-save for everything completely eliminates the ability to explore and take risks. Basically any time I send anyone just a few dozen yards out on their own, they get cut off and slaughtered.

So every level is just me finding the most defensible position possible close to the starting area and then having my whole team stack up there to wipe out the enemies as they come. That's it. Just find a nearby "safe space" and wait for the enemies to come to me. The risks are just too high for anything else. One loss can easily kill a campaign early on.

But even that doesn't always work because there are routinely missions where you have to start with your team spread out. This is game's AI basically saying "Well we've talked it over, and we've decided that you are going to lose this level." I had to delete a well-going campaign because of a level where I all my guys spread out facing an enemy that was all grouped together. Even an attempt to run away to a rally point didn't work. The enemy chased me down before we could get there.

Finally, why is there such a pathetic selecion of troops? Just two different henchmen types at the start of the game? Really? Warhammer has literally dozens of different character classes, and they start me off with 2? "Shadow of the Horned Rat" had a better variety of troop types, and that game came out in the 1990s!

This isn't just a rant. Like I said, I want to like this game, and I'm really looking for some way to salvage it. Is this just an example of "early game hell"? Do things get better after a while? I am doing something wrong in playstyle. I'd really like to know a way to make this fun.

[Paranoia]

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

Out of curiosity, what kind of troops do you get access to as the Mercenaries when you reach rank 5?

By Rank 5:
Rank 2: Warlock;
Rank 4: Champion (typically used as a tank);
Rank 5 Ogre (Impressive, goes on the slot above two of the Hero Slots, replacing two Heroes).

And then there's the Secondary Faction reward unlocks, but those take quite a while longer.

[kriscardiac]

The Ogre impressive iirc.
And maybe the Champion if you haven't already.

Edit : 'Ninja'd by Paranoia' would be an achievement if it wasn't so common.

[Ohio9]

That's it? Just a few new classes from a franchise that has dozens upon dozens? No one else feels insanely cheated by this?

[Paranoia]

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

That's it? Just a few new classes from a franchise that has dozens up dozens? No one else feels insanely cheated by this?

Mordheim as a game was limited by the setting. There simply are very few Character types that could plausibly be there.
Besides, considering the customization in Builds is more important than Character type, about a dozen different (once everything is unlocked) is more than enough to do whatever one wants to do. Obviously sans Faction-specific roles.

[kriscardiac]

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

That's it? Just a few new classes from a franchise that has dozens upon dozens? No one else feels insanely cheated by this?

Not personally.

Given the possible variations on builds there's more than enough choice for me.

PS when you get an ogre, DO NOT take him along with your higher levelled toons.

[uddhava]

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

That's it? Just a few new classes from a franchise that has dozens upon dozens? No one else feels insanely cheated by this?

Again, its the original that sets the limit. It was skirmish game based on small gangs, so while the TT did have an extra henchmen in general the hero options are on par with the TT. It also plays in a much earlier timeframe than say Total Warhammer, so a lot of things didnt exist yet.

[Ohio9]

Автор сообщения: Paranoia

Mordheim as a game was limited by the setting. There simply are very few Character types that could plausibly be there.

How so? I get that in a city environment there would be a few warhammer units that would be impractical, such as mounted knights or cannons. But even without those, there should still be dozens of different types of foot infantry available.

I got this right after I put around 300 hours in "Warhammer Total War", a game in which each faction has about 20-30 different troop types. The variation among units has always struck me as Warhammer's greatest asset. It's astounding not to see them use that here.

[Paranoia]

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

How so? ...dozens of different types of foot infantry...

Because armies have no interest in the city, it has been left to scavengers and a disgraced religious order. Mercenaries simply do not have those kinds of troops.
And, as said above, this was hundreds of years before the current Warhammer time. Many of the things didn't exist yet at all.

[kriscardiac]

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

Автор сообщения: Paranoia

Mordheim as a game was limited by the setting. There simply are very few Character types that could plausibly be there.

How so? I get that in a city environment there would be a few warhammer units that would be impractical, such as mounted knights or cannons. But even without those, there should still be dozens of different types of foot infantry available.

I feel a Warlord moment coming.....

Watch the opening story when you start the game...


The whole city has been damned. It got nuked by a wyrdstone comet. It's full of daemons.

Tbh I just look at it as 'Reasons'.

[Ohio9]

Автор сообщения: Paranoia

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

How so? ...dozens of different types of foot infantry...

Because armies have no interest in the city, it has been left to scavengers and a disgraced religious order. Mercenaries simply do not have those kinds of troops.
And, as said above, this was hundreds of years before the current Warhammer time. Many of the things didn't exist yet at all.

Okay so let's assume roughly half the Warhammer units didn't exist when Mordheim takes place. That would still leave tons available. Way more then what is in this game.

And yeah I get the people going into the city aren't in the army, but I still don't see any reason why that should be so limiting as to character classes. There could still be a lot troops types available. And if the original Table top game was this badly limited, then they should have made the necessary changes for the video game.

Автор сообщения: kriscardiac

[

Tbh I just look at it as 'Reasons'.

Sadly it appears that's the explanation for many things in this game.

[Paranoia]

Besides, when looking at something like Empire army roster, there's a lot of exact the same dude but with different weapon.
Well, guess what? One can change the weapon in Mordheim, so a Warrior is Halberdier, Swordsman and Spearman.

[Ohio9]

Автор сообщения: Paranoia

Besides, when looking at something like Empire army roster, there's a lot of exact the same dude but with different weapon.
Well, guess what? One can change the weapon in Mordheim, so a Warrior is Halberdier, Swordsman and Spearman.

True, but I'd still prefer the specific classes over generic blank slates. Particularly when it so hard to make them look different from each other.

[uddhava]

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

Автор сообщения: kriscardiac

[

Tbh I just look at it as 'Reasons'.

Sadly it appears that's the explanation for many things in this game.

If you replace 'Reasons' with 'original table top rules' then yeah, thats the reason behind most things in the game. I dunno, I dont find it that difficult honestly. The Warhammer universe is not just Warhammer Fantasy Battle, just like 40k isnt only Speeshmarines. But if you look at Space Hulk, there is only terminators and Genestealers, because that is what the orginal Space Hulk boardgame was about. Even tho in 40k there is Imperial Guard, Eldar, Tau, Orks, etc. etc.
I guess its more noticeable if you're not too familiar with the TT game.s

[Ohio9]

Автор сообщения: uddhava

Автор сообщения: Ohio9

Sadly it appears that's the explanation for many things in this game.

If you replace 'Reasons' with 'original table top rules' then yeah, thats the reason behind most things in the game. I dunno, I dont find it that difficult honestly. The Warhammer universe is not just Warhammer Fantasy Battle, just like 40k isnt only Speeshmarines. But if you look at Space Hulk, there is only terminators and Genestealers, because that is what the orginal Space Hulk boardgame was about. Even tho in 40k there is Imperial Guard, Eldar, Tau, Orks, etc. etc.
I guess its more noticeable if you're not too familiar with the TT game.s

I've never messed with Warhammer 40K Something about Orcs and Goblins in a sci-fi environment doesn't feel right. Anywhere outside of medieval fantasy setting just feels off.

And yeah, I know Warhammer isn't all about massive army battles. I bought Mordhiem expecting it to involve combat with small squads, not armies. But still expected it to have its massive selection of different unit types. That's always been the most appealing thing of the franchise to me (especially its use of gunpowder weapons), and what sets it apart from other similarly themed franchises like Lord of the Rings. I never thought I'd find a game that didn't take advantage of this.

[kriscardiac]

'Reasons' is how I look at it. That's not an explanation.
There is a lore-based explanation somewhere. It just doesn't interest me very much.
I enjoy the game the way it is.
Edit: more customization would have been nice.