Hand Shot v. Crippling Shot?

[Lampros]

I am trying to figure out what is the best way to debuff AI Impressives. I am running max only 1 ranged hero, so I can only Master one of these (I could Master two, but that's a lot of resources). So which one would you choose?

[Much Monkey Business]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

just make sure you use a wolf priest to add hit chance for righteous furry because it has a 20 percent chance extra to miss or use maces with it

Got it.

Also, would you give the Basic version to all henchmen as well? If they all stack, then no reason not to?

Edit: Never mind. Henchmen with -20 percent hit chance would hit too rarely to make it worthwhile...

maces , rune that increases hit chance, combat focus should cover all of it and you should get bonus

especially with increased hit chance and damage from ulrics gift spell from the wolf priest very doable

add some insults to lower their melee resist

use weak spot and quick incision for futher debuff and bypass once you land one hit it should be alot easier for the next.

you can use one combat focus with your hits to start of the debuffs

[Silverquick]

Personally I'd prefer Head Shot...

The real problem with it... and why it doesn't get used or put into action is that you NEED it at Mastery level...

-30% to hit in this game is too much... and it requires 15 Accuracy for Mastery... if you make Accuracy your Primary Focus... your Ballistic Skill (ie...what controls your actual accuracy to hit).... suffers.

So you really can't get use out of this skill as much as you'd like to. I took it at basic level... but never really used it because the accuracy was so low on it... It felt like a waste to try it unless I had a near automatic hit chance.

[uddhava]

Originally posted by Silverquick:

Personally I'd prefer Head Shot...

The real problem with it... and why it doesn't get used or put into action is that you NEED it at Mastery level...

-30% to hit in this game is too much... and it requires 15 Accuracy for Mastery... if you make Accuracy your Primary Focus... your Ballistic Skill (ie...what controls your actual accuracy to hit).... suffers.

So you really can't get use out of this skill as much as you'd like to. I took it at basic level... but never really used it because the accuracy was so low on it... It felt like a waste to try it unless I had a near automatic hit chance.

Yeah it only suits heroes because of the investment in Acc and BS and mastery skill level. A legolas archer could do it tho. The lack of BS could be compensated with a rune and raised by scoring some hits before using headshot. That being said, I never use it either. The question is also: do I need to stun or kill? Sometimes focusing on the latter is just more efficient than first accomplishing the former.

[wendigo211]

I've used Head Shot with an LGT Bow Marksman, however I found a Vital Shot/Sniper Shot Hunting Rifle Marksman hero performed consistently better.

I find Overpower works better than Vital Strike, but for some reason it just isn't the same with ranged weapons. Probably because there's no ranged equivalent to Combat Focus and Insult.

Edit: Against Impressives I'd probably opt for Knee Shot. It's situational, but being able to get an extra round of attacks against one before it can act again can be huge.

[Greybush]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

I find Overpower works better than Vital Strike, but for some reason it just isn't the same with ranged weapons. Probably because there's no ranged equivalent to Combat Focus and Insult.

Exploit Positioning. -10-20% Range res.
Only annoying thing is that it can't be used while in combat and only has 15m range, so having a melee use it to set up the shot can be impractical, and getting that close with a ranged unit is risky.

[Kernest]

If playing Witch Hunters, Hand Shot might be the better choice, especially against Impressives, since you can then throw in Snow King's Decree and Trial by Pain and watch them kill themselves whilst flailing at empty space.

[Much Monkey Business]

Originally posted by Kernest:

If playing Witch Hunters, Hand Shot might be the better choice, especially against Impressives, since you can then throw in Snow King's Decree and Trial by Pain and watch them kill themselves whilst flailing at empty space.

also stack wolf priests winters chill Single 20 percent spell for further hit chance debuff and also a damage debuff

EDIT: also use deny the heretic AOE 15 percent with all that and the AI will almost never hit if it does it hit for less damage

use the wolf priests spell Wild pack AOE you cause fear and are 30 percent harder to hit
might need 2 wolf priests to pull this off but great synergy with the right skills and spells

add a prayer of absolution AOE with that to add armour 10 percent , dodge and parry 20 percent to decrease further damage done and increase chance negating their damage while trial of pain and snow kings decree drains their hit points

[Much Monkey Business]

Originally posted by Greybush:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

I find Overpower works better than Vital Strike, but for some reason it just isn't the same with ranged weapons. Probably because there's no ranged equivalent to Combat Focus and Insult.

Exploit Positioning. -10-20% Range res.
Only annoying thing is that it can't be used while in combat and only has 15m range, so having a melee use it to set up the shot can be impractical, and getting that close with a ranged unit is risky.

exploit positioning is alittle tricky to use but you can use it with pistols or crossbow pistols effectivly with the right skills like exhaustion or adrenaline rush you still can get enough attacks off and becomes of course more effective with more then one range unit

or you can use with a caster who shouldnt be in close combat usually anyway as it takes intelligence to master I think

[Greybush]

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

Originally posted by Greybush:

Exploit Positioning. -10-20% Range res.
Only annoying thing is that it can't be used while in combat and only has 15m range, so having a melee use it to set up the shot can be impractical, and getting that close with a ranged unit is risky.

exploit positioning is alittle tricky to use but you can use it with pistols or crossbow pistols effectivly with the right skills like exhaustion or adrenaline rush you still can get enough attacks off and becomes of course more effective with more then one range unit

or you can use with a caster who shouldnt be in close combat usually anyway as it takes intelligence to master I think

Yeah, the disadvantage of it's limited range and unavailability in combat makes effective use tricky.
You can have it on a melee unit, but that would require him using it before entering combat (so either limited movement left or limited defensive stance).
Short range weapons like Crossbow Pistols are an option, but you'd still need to get a lot closer than their max range to use it, and movement would be even more limited due to needing to reload.
A caster like Warrior Priest could use it somewhat effectively, since he's also a decent melee unit and could hold out in combat for a while, but casters like Warlock would be riskier.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

EDIT: also use deny the heretic AOE 15 percent with all that and the AI will almost never hit if it does it hit for less damage

Problem here is that DtH also removes OP, meaning the enemy would be able to hit less and thus take less damage.

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

use the wolf priests spell Wild pack AOE you cause fear and are 30 percent harder to hit
might need 2 wolf priests to pull this off but great synergy with the right skills and spells

I don't like Wild Pack, at least if using the Wolf-Priest with Witch Hunters, because they have so much better spells available to them.

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

add a prayer of absolution AOE with that to add armour 10 percent , dodge and parry 20 percent to decrease further damage done and increase chance negating their damage while trial of pain and snow kings decree drains their hit points

Armour of Righteousness is simply a better spell in most cases and assuming that you take it, Healing Hand and DtH, you'd need mastered Divine Study and a Tome of Magic to afford mastering PoA, but wouldn't get to master Immaculate Flesh.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Kernest:

If playing Witch Hunters, Hand Shot might be the better choice, especially against Impressives, since you can then throw in Snow King's Decree and Trial by Pain and watch them kill themselves whilst flailing at empty space.

Yeah, I am leaning toward Hand Shot as the go-to debuff. I am also leaning toward Knee Shot over Crippling Shot as secondary debuff - since I can more easily use it with Staggering Blow for stacking synergy.

Originally posted by Kernest:

I don't like Wild Pack, at least if using the Wolf-Priest with Witch Hunters, because they have so much better spells available to them.

Elaborate, please?

[Much Monkey Business]

Originally posted by Kernest:

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

EDIT: also use deny the heretic AOE 15 percent with all that and the AI will almost never hit if it does it hit for less damage

Problem here is that DtH also removes OP, meaning the enemy would be able to hit less and thus take less damage.

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

use the wolf priests spell Wild pack AOE you cause fear and are 30 percent harder to hit
might need 2 wolf priests to pull this off but great synergy with the right skills and spells

I don't like Wild Pack, at least if using the Wolf-Priest with Witch Hunters, because they have so much better spells available to them.

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

add a prayer of absolution AOE with that to add armour 10 percent , dodge and parry 20 percent to decrease further damage done and increase chance negating their damage while trial of pain and snow kings decree drains their hit points

Armour of Righteousness is simply a better spell in most cases and assuming that you take it, Healing Hand and DtH, you'd need mastered Divine Study and a Tome of Magic to afford mastering PoA, but wouldn't get to master Immaculate Flesh.

well using deny the heretic would still stack well with the spells I listed and it only removes 1 offensive point which an average would be worth a counter attack or maybe 1 less two handed attack which would be fine by me and probably any other player as they could still use the synergy to not get hit and deal damage while making the enemy damage themselves

using wild pack is amazing with the right synergy as it makes you much harder to be hit while causing fear as a bonus and on top of that its AOE where armour of rightesnous is for anticipating a hit and gives you fear aswell but is only single.

paryer of absolution is way better to me then armour of righteousness as prayer of absolution is AOE and the other spell is single along with the fact that the prayer spell adds a decent amount of dodge and parry while still adding armour .basically it can deny the enemy from even landing a hit and still add enough armour if it does while armour of righteousness just gives armour and fear when some units are immune to fear.

Now there is no reason why you couldnt use two warrior priests and 2 wolf priests to use a large amount of spells and skills to add to your warbands synergy which sometimes I do

and yes for casters I always go for less wrath and curse chance max to cast 1 or 2 spells with out risk

you dont even need to max imaculate flesh becuase you can pray at your cart and you get enough posion resist from toughness late and mid game ........

[Much Monkey Business]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Kernest:

If playing Witch Hunters, Hand Shot might be the better choice, especially against Impressives, since you can then throw in Snow King's Decree and Trial by Pain and watch them kill themselves whilst flailing at empty space.

Yeah, I am leaning toward Hand Shot as the go-to debuff. I am also leaning toward Knee Shot over Crippling Shot as secondary debuff - since I can more easily use it with Staggering Blow for stacking synergy.

Originally posted by Kernest:

I don't like Wild Pack, at least if using the Wolf-Priest with Witch Hunters, because they have so much better spells available to them.

Elaborate, please?

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

Originally posted by Kernest:

Problem here is that DtH also removes OP, meaning the enemy would be able to hit less and thus take less damage.


I don't like Wild Pack, at least if using the Wolf-Priest with Witch Hunters, because they have so much better spells available to them.



Armour of Righteousness is simply a better spell in most cases and assuming that you take it, Healing Hand and DtH, you'd need mastered Divine Study and a Tome of Magic to afford mastering PoA, but wouldn't get to master Immaculate Flesh.

well using deny the heretic would still stack well with the spells I listed and it only removes 1 offensive point which an average would be worth a counter attack or maybe 1 less two handed attack which would be fine by me and probably any other player as they could still use the synergy to not get hit and deal damage while making the enemy damage themselves

using wild pack is amazing with the right synergy as it makes you much harder to be hit while causing fear as a bonus and on top of t hat its AOE where armour of rightesnous is for anticipating a hit and gives you fear aswell but is only single.

paryer of absolution is way better to me then armour of righteousness as prayer of absolution is AOE and the other spell is single along with the fact that the prayer spell adds a decent amount of dodge and parry while still adding armour .basically it can deny the enemy from even landing a hit and still add enough armour if it does while armour of righteousness just gives armour and fear when some units are immune to fear.

Now there is no reason why you couldnt use two warrior priests and 2 wolf priests to use a large amount of spells and skills to add to your warbands synergy which sometimes I do

and yes for casters I always go for less wrath and curse chance max to cast 1 or 2 spells with out risk

you dont even need to max imaculate flesh becuase you can pray at your cart and you get enough posion resist from toughness late and mid game ........

at least thats my logic

[Kernest]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Elaborate, please?

Witch Hunters already have plenty of mental immunity, so you'd basically want it for causing fear, and even so, it only lasts 1 turn, so you'd need to constantly have enough people in 5 meter range to make it worth casting.

But more importantly, as a Wolf Priest, you want the good spells, like Blessing of Ulric, Snow King's Decree, mastering Ulric's Gift, and personally I like Howl of the Wolf as well. There are just too many good spells to waste spell point of Wild Pack, especially if playing Witch Hunters.

[Kernest]

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

well using deny the heretic would still stack well with the spells I listed and it only removes 1 offensive point which an average would be worth a counter attack or maybe 1 less two handed attack which would be fine by me and probably any other player as they could still use the synergy to not get hit and deal damage while making the enemy damage themselves

Mastered DtH removes 2 OP, while the basic version only gives 5% hit chance penalty. If your goal is to use Snow King's Decree and Trial by Pain, you don't want to remove a 2-handed attack nor even a 1-handed one, as that's either 1/4th or 1/3rd of the damage they would have taken from SKD and TbP.

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

using wild pack is amazing with the right synergy as it makes you much harder to be hit while causing fear as a bonus and on top of that its AOE where armour of rightesnous is for anticipating a hit and gives you fear aswell but is only single.

Wild Pack only makes you harder to hit BY causing fear, if they resist fear, they receive no malus whatsoever. Also, Armour of Righteousness lasts 2 turns, as opposed to 1 turn for both Prayer of Absolution and Wild Pack.

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

paryer of absolution is way better to me then armour of righteousness as prayer of absolution is AOE and the other spell is single along with the fact that the prayer spell adds a decent amount of dodge and parry while still adding armour .basically it can deny the enemy from even landing a hit and still add enough armour if it does while armour of righteousness just gives armour and fear when some units are immune to fear.

PoA is only 1 turn, and is AoE that doesn't affect the caster, which IMO makes it much worse than AoR.

Originally posted by Much Monkey Business:

you dont even need to max imaculate flesh becuase you can pray at your cart and you get enough posion resist from toughness late and mid game ........

You'd master it to remove any existing wyrdstone effects, though it's worth noting that the 13 Toughness the Warrior Priest ends up with (in my builds) only nets you 49% poison resist, which is not a lot nor is it enough, and Templar Knights and Wolf Priests don't have that much more Toughness either.