Mordheim: City of the Damned

Mordheim: City of the Damned

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SlaineMor May 19, 2017 @ 3:31pm
Best Order Henchmen
Sorry if this is a repeat but I'm thinking long-term WB development...
We've just been commenting on a Sister's band with Merc Marksmen...
So what is the best starting group to get the most flexible/synergistic warband do ya think?
Look at Mercs.. they can get a Warrior Priest (wiith heavy Rep investment) Have an Arcane Spellcaster - possibly highest single target magic damage in the game... but they can only use Sister's Nivoce (good dodge - crap WS)
The Sisters can pull in a Warrior Priest, they have Sisters (which I think are the best tanky henchmen (on order) and can pull in Marksmen - best ranged henchmen (as we've seen)
Witch Hunters can get Marksmen also - and Novices... (but can pull in a Sister Superior - which doesn't really fill a specific role)

So Does Sister's have the best Rep development for most effective units? (only lacking the Arcane Spellcaster)?
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Paranoia May 19, 2017 @ 3:43pm 
Originally posted by SlaineMor:
So Does Sister's have the best Rep development for most effective units? (only lacking the Arcane Spellcaster)?

Well, since Sisters have three of their own Casters, plus Wolf Priest if DLC, I really do not think they much want more Casters anyway.
And Mercenaries get Flagellants too.

I would answer that Mercenaries have the most versatility.
Last edited by Paranoia; May 19, 2017 @ 3:44pm
SlaineMor May 19, 2017 @ 4:49pm 
The most or the best Paranoia? as you say the Sisters can field an array of spellcaster now albeit all divine with WP and Wolf Priest) but I ask only because I have a low opion of the Flagellants I suspect!

I know on the Chaos side I think the Warpguards are the uber hanchmen, including LGT - which most/all have access to via rep.

So easier question... who is a better tanky hanchmen - the Sister or the Merc Warrior?
Last edited by SlaineMor; May 19, 2017 @ 4:53pm
Paranoia May 19, 2017 @ 5:17pm 
Originally posted by SlaineMor:
The most or the best Paranoia? as you say the Sisters can field an array of spellcaster now albeit all divine with WP and Wolf Priest) but I ask only because I have a low opion of the Flagellants I suspect!

Well, it really depends on what one wants to accomplish. Sisters are the Order Warband that can perform execution by stoning (Comets on the enemies all day long) and Buffing assuming Wolf- and/or Warrior Priest added to the mix. For Debuffing, for example, Mercenaries are better.

Originally posted by SlaineMor:
So easier question... who is a better tanky hanchmen - the Sister or the Merc Warrior?

I'd say Sisters, assuming Warrior Priests included for Extra Armour Absorption and Dodge. Dodge Novice in Heavy Armour actually works with the Warrior Priest Buff Spells.
Without one, it really becomes hard to say, since Mercs have +AA Stance, but Sisters have Healing.

It is largely dependant on the support, really.
Without any support of any kind, I say Warriors.
SlaineMor May 19, 2017 @ 6:34pm 
Fully understood sir! So lets look at ther rest of the WB.. Impressives - The Ogre, Maiden and Executionor...
Sorry Paranoia I'm not trying to be a tool! just looking for something to optimise a time investment.
Paranoia May 19, 2017 @ 7:21pm 
Originally posted by SlaineMor:
Fully understood sir! So lets look at ther rest of the WB.. Impressives - The Ogre, Maiden and Executionor...
Sorry Paranoia I'm not trying to be a tool! just looking for something to optimise a time investment.

No problem at all. It is not like I dislike discussing and advicing.
As for the Impressives:
I never really liked Maiden.

1) Her Spells are mainly Support Spells, which does not work since she is the thing to support.

2) She needs heavy investment in the aforementioned casting area lest she backfires horribly, and even then is no better at it than anyone, and less good at it than Matriarch (see her Passive). Which is kinda damning since one can take two Purifiers instead of her.

3) She also needs heavy investment into Armour Proficient and/or K:Mordheim or she's not getting anywhere in a timely manner unless catapulted by Sister Superior.

4) (2) and (3) together with the need to cover for her non-Large drawbacks, mainly lack of Crit- and Stun Resistance, means that once she has been compensated for those there is very little left to customize her with. Even if she were to ignore her Spells entirely, the only real way to use her is the infamous Cheerleading Squad using Second Wind and Battleplan while she Delays for about ten to fifteen attacks a round. She is good at that role, admittedly, but the whole Warband then revolves around her.


Ogre is my second least favourite, but the unlocking of Warrior Priest makes him much more viable since he turns into good Bruiser (Burst + Tanky) with healing and extra Armour Absorption.


Executioner, on the other hand, I like very much. He is, relatively speaking, a Glass Cannon (though very good Sidestepper), even more than Maiden is, but he murders absolutely everything when Built and equiped correctly. Compared to Maiden, he wastes no potential on Casting and has less weaknesses to cover due that and having default average Movement, and just walks up to enemies and murders all of them. Throw in the Area Buff Pyre and he is my favourite Impressive.

So, ranking, Executioner (1), Ogre (5) and Maiden (6).
Though that is obviously my evaluation, personal mileage may vary.
Last edited by Paranoia; May 19, 2017 @ 7:22pm
Karond May 19, 2017 @ 11:15pm 
When choosing an order warband, you can practically ignore some units in the evaluation because they're shared. These are warpriest, sister superior, youngblood, novice, marksman and flaggelant.

This leaves us with this choice:

Mercs: captain, champion, warlock, ogre, warrior

Sisters: Matriarch, purifier, augur, maiden, sister

Witch hunters: Captain, witch hunter, knight, executioner, zealot.

-------

So what's the best henchmen option? Well, it certainly isn't witch hunters. The zealot is a bit mediocre, especially as a tank, while the warrior and sister are about even. Warrior wins out on a bit more offensive potential and access to ranged, but the sister has an easier time with morale. Sisters can be pushed to 69% melee resistance, the warrior 70%. For PvP, the passive of the warrior is a bit more useful, so I think it's a slight edge to the mercs.

That said, sisters vs mercs is also about the other choices. Warlock and purifier are about even, and while the captain is uncomfortable for an opponent lacking parry bypass, the matriarch is the best leader in the game. Augur is the worst hero in the game, while champion is arguably one of the best melee heroes. Once again, I think the mercs win here slightly. But what about witch hunters? The captain and knight are decent melee choices, but the knight is just slightly below the champion in power I feel (others may disagree), while the witch hunter captain is about equal to the mercenary captain, even mimicking his ability but with dodge instead of parry. The witch hunter is a mediocre hero, suffering a bit like the youngblood in the morale department, but it's not too bad. They're a better choice than the sisters for a melee warband, but lack the versatility the others have.

As for the impressive, eh, order isn't on top there. Executioner is the easiest to kill, maiden is predictable and her magic is barely worth using, and the ogre is generic. Order warbands do pretty well in PvP without an impressive because of their hero strength, so impressives isn't a choice that decided the choice very much in my opinion. They can all be decent, but there is the obvious combo of warpriest + maiden/ogre for lots of armor, while the executioner requires a warband built around his abilities.

All in all, mercs win slightly I feel. It's not just me though, look around. The level 10 tournaments mordheim has had have always been fielding more merc warbands than any other warband in the game, and it's even more skewed within order.

For example, look at the current level 10 tournament. There you'll find no skaven, 2 undead, 3 possessed, 2 sister, 2 witch hunters and 6 mercenaries players. People are on to something.
SlaineMor May 20, 2017 @ 12:46am 
Thanks for the summation Karond - all you said makes alot of sense! The latter part of your statement set a small fire off: no Skaven in R10 tourney! which is quite shocking considering how offensive the rats can be! So I think I'll do a Skaven WB to r10 for next tourney :)

I do need an Order WB though - and from what I've seen from the vets, I thin kI'll develop it from the Mercs!
Last edited by SlaineMor; May 20, 2017 @ 12:48am
Karond May 20, 2017 @ 1:02am 
Originally posted by SlaineMor:
Thanks for the summation Karond - all you said makes alot of sense! The latter part of your statement set a small fire off: no Skaven in R10 tourney! which is quite shocking considering how offensive the rats can be! So I think I'll do a Skaven WB to r10 for next tourney :)

It highlights the hypocrisy of many of our mordheim players. The topic of ranking the warbands against each other comes up every now and then, and a lot of people will state that Skaven is the best warband out there. However, when it comes to picking a powerful PvP warband for a tournament, none of these players ever choose to play as the skaven. The skaven warbands that have showed up in the past, have been eliminated right away. Movement aside, it looks as if its indeed the 6th ranked warband out there.
Paranoia May 20, 2017 @ 2:21am 
Originally posted by SlaineMor:
Thanks for the summation Karond - all you said makes alot of sense! The latter part of your statement set a small fire off: no Skaven in R10 tourney! which is quite shocking considering how offensive the rats can be! So I think I'll do a Skaven WB to r10 for next tourney :)

Originally posted by Karond:
It highlights the hypocrisy of many of our mordheim players. The topic of ranking the warbands against each other comes up every now and then, and a lot of people will state that Skaven is the best warband out there.

To be fair, I didn't take Skaven because I used them in the last Tourney, as did a lot of people then. And the only reason I used Mercs was because that was the Warband I had ready. :b

But, yes, I agree with Karond, Mercenaries win ever so slightly. Mainly because I think Warrior Priest works better in Mercenaries than in Witch Hunters, funny enough. Without Warrior Priest in the picture, Mercenaries would have a noticeable hole in their roster types.
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Date Posted: May 19, 2017 @ 3:31pm
Posts: 9