Hulk did not need nerfed.

[Mayo]

Starting off, the Devs are obviously balancing more for competitive and not for casual players. Some small changes here and there, the biggest buffs to Captain America (Deserved) but you know who didn't need nerfed? The Hulk.

I don't know who is in the loop, but I'm going to say this: In high level competitive play, Hulk is primarily used for being able to dive ontop of enemies either WITH support, or trying to peel enemies into overextending. The ONLY reason he is played so much at high level is because of his TEAM UPS. NOT BECAUSE OF HIS KIT.

With Hela and Hawkeye supremacy in the game being banned 24/7, it left Hulk/Doctor Strange and Iron man to dominate lobbies. Iron man by himself is okay, but with the extra gamma boost? Insane damage. Doctor Strange having no negative side now and boosted damage on one of his abilities? Sign me up.

Hulk isn't the best tank, he isn't the worst. But I don't like that they're nerfing a character who is EXTREMELY weak to any form of CC and has excruciatingly long cooldowns. Go and play Hulk, and you won't realize how long you're actively waiting for your cooldowns to come back before you can dive in again- you are a sitting duck. Watching high level play, its the same thing. The only difference is that you have more opportunities because EVERYONES skill is better at those levels. But in more casual play? He is hot garbage without his team to go in with him or even heal him.

His nerf for season 1, while small, is still not deserved in the slightest. Not to mention seasonal bonuses only lasting for the SEASON, meaning HE'LL LOSE 150 HP AT THE END OF SEASON 1. SO WILL VENOM!

I already feel like I'm getting nuked down by everyone, even playing safe. I'm not the best at the game, I'm only diamond 3 before I just stopped playing competitive. Been mostly playing Hulk with 22 hours logged on him as my most played.

This kind of balancing... It'll end up burning them alive. Game is fun don't get me wrong, but man. I don't know what kind of statistics they're looking at to be nerfing HULK over the small nerfs for Hela and Hawkeye. This is ridiculous.

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door Dragontoast:

I think I see where they are coming from with the nerf.
As a healer if I have an aggressive hulk just us 2 can basically lock down enemy spawn rooms on capture maps as he can use his shield to almost guarantee he never dies.

That being said, Hulk is absolute beans without support.
If they made Banner an actual character and gave dying as Banner transforms you to Hulk(if you have charge) I would love it. There is so much cool stuff to do with Bruce(Bannertech is insane) and what they chose was and is a joke.

Hulk is ONLY good with support, which I kinda get. Without support, Hulk is actually very squishy. His biggest positive is his mobility. He is very weak to CC and getting locked down and relies a lot on being able to get in, and get out- usually with team support. I sort of understand the nerf to be honest, I still don't think it addresses some other problems. It isn't hard to break his shield and then just spam stun him, especially with good team work.

The only problem when facing against him is that if your team isnt with you as a support, you have to rely a LOT on your own stuns or mobility. It really just shows good team work vs. bad- if you have good team work, Hulk isn't really an issue. If you have bad team work, Hulk can stomp teams he normally shouldn't. Similar to Captain America, if I'm honest- just Cap has slightly less damage.

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door some kind of bird:

Origineel geplaatst door Kitt 🌟 Stargazer:

How precisely do you balance around casual, who is filled with people who all have different opinions on how each character should be "balanced" exactly? What casual players want is literally all over the place in that regard...

The thing is, more competitive players will generally direct characters in order to best understand them. Since fully understanding what they can give you a competitive edge when actually trying to win. It also helps them provide actual facts on what could be a problem that needs to be address, something casual players almost can never provide.

You just mostly need to be worried about personal bias after that. But most of Casual players suggestions will be Bias as well, on top of being ignorant...

I personally feel like the eSports scene and the constant balancing patches that surrounded it is one of the things that categorically ruined Overwatch for me and made me stop playing it. If you develop a game around a small subset of people who optimize the fun out of everything, and dont actually represent the average player even slightly, I don't think you should be surprised if everyone thinks it sucks ass at the end of its life.

Competitive ruined Overwatch and made it boring, and a lot of high competitive players with self awareness even know it. Its why I want to be adamant that Marvel Rivals doesn't go the same path.

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door astator:

OP is right. IronMan team up with Hulk is the problem.

thank you

[HaveHimExecutedASAP]

Nerfing hulk makes no sense whens hes already permabanned cause of his team-up. Hulk could be dogwater and people would still run it for the team-up

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door HaveHimExecutedASAP:

Nerfing hulk makes no sense whens hes already permabanned cause of his team-up. Hulk could be dogwater and people would still run it for the team-up

Exactly the problem. Hulk isn't even a good tank without good team work, and so they say "Hulk must be the problem!" and they don't look at the team up at all. You'll see Hela, Hulk, Hawkeye- and usually Luna all banned. Hulk by himself isnt that good... so suddenly his team ups make him that broken? People run Doctor Strange with Magneto or even Groot more than they run Strange and Hulk, I tell ya...

[Gamefreak]

I think he needed nerfed but I also think Iron Man gamma unibeam should have been dropped by 25-30 damage. No clue why that wasn't changed. Also, Hulk is really good right now and is banned at high ratings. Not sure why you guys think he's not that great lol. He has an AoE team shield that blocks a ton of important abilities and he can completely remove someone from the fight for a few seconds with him being the only one that can unsleep them. His mobility makes him hard to lockdown if you don't run Peni.

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door Gamefreak:

I think he needed nerfed but I also think Iron Man gamma unibeam should have been dropped by 25-30 damage. No clue why that wasn't changed.

If you remove Hulk's team-ups from the game he becomes mediocre and rarely played. Even with a team its rather easy to get rushed down/stunned. I don't think he needs a buff OR a nerf. He's either perfectly fine where he is, or he needs a rework because his kit just doesn't fit the character tbh. But that last part is just my personal opinion.

I question why Hulk needs nerfed constantly. Low cooldowns? Nope, his cooldowns are already very long... His health? No, as a melee exclusive he pretty much jumps in and gets shot to hell... His ultimate? You mean the one that can also be spammed down, and even CC'd during?

He is only good at capitalizing on another team's lack of teamwork. That's it. You literally play him like this: You jump in, shield, punch a little, the MOMENT that shield breaks- unless your team is with you, you jump TF out. Because if you don't, you get nuked down so fast. Its not like Captain America where you have really really good mobility... Hulk's mobility is okay, but he is still overall slower. Any interupt to him at all makes you have to recharge his jump, and every second counts when playing him. His greatest weakness in the game... it really is team work. No heals? He can barely do anything. Enemy team focuses him down the moment he jumps? He gets melted, even with heals.

Anyone who says he needed a nerf... I genuinely want you to try playing Hulk constantly in casual and in competitive and notice how often you get stunned or shot down. Also note how long you're having to wait for your cooldowns to actually play the game. Because believe me, it gets boring waiting 13 seconds any time you want to go in with his bubble. And to hope to dear GOD that your team is with you.

[Shuyin178]

Origineel geplaatst door Mayo:

Origineel geplaatst door Shuyin178:

Hulk was nerfed because of his team-up ability being too strong, so they had to weaken him to open up other team-ups a little more. On top of that, while it looks like a small nerf it does a lot. Not only is the gamma shield weaker, it also means the shields on allies are weaker, and it also means you generate less energy for your ultimate to charge so it takes a little longer to get it.
Dr. Strange was nerfed because he was strong even without Hulk.
Iron Man was not nerfed because Iron Man on his own is weak, but with the team-up he's ridiculously good at melting targets.

Captain America did need the buffs because he always looked like a bot running around randomly.

Hela and Hawkeye got decent nerfs. Hela got a survivability nerf losing some HP and Hawkeye got damage consistency nerf to his passive so he isn't killing across the map. Both getting -5% damage from their season buff so they will both hit weaker no matter what.

Also you're wrong about the season bonus stuff too. The same characters from Season 0 have retained their season buffs, Hawkeye and Hela's got nerfed but they were the only ones. Nobody else's season buff was touched, so Hulk and Venom keep their extra HP.

You need to investigate all of the information before you blindly speak about things you are wrong about.

Then nerf the team up, not Hulk by himself. Also seasonal bonuses from Season 0 are staying into Season 1. Because Season 0 was not a typical season, it was basically their test period. I said eventually they'd lose their bonus HP after SEASON 1 was over.

Hela got a -25 health reduction, and a 5% seasonal damage nerf. (From 20%) Her problem wasn't her survivability, its her damage. I will say that Hawkeye was more changed than nerfed, in that they want to reduce the range his passive ability procs, ontop of a 10 damage nerf when that passive is at its MAXIMUM.

Hela's may be substantial, we'll see. 5% can be a lot. Hawkeye? It means he has to be slightly closer to be viable, but will still do roughly the same damage. I don't count Hela's little -25 HP nerf to be proper, because again- survivability wasn't her problem, her damage was. Also note in my post I said Cap got buffed, which I then put {Deserved} because I dont think anyone here complained about him getting buffed... a majority of the community knew he needed buffed.

Point being: I know what I'm talking about, I can clarify what doesn't seem clear, and know they shouldnt have nerfed Hulk when he gets NO VALUE from his team ups. They only buff other characters, so nerfing him is just idiotic from the dev team and I will die on that hill.

I also noted in some of my responses that quite a few changes are actually decent in the patch notes. Some are smaller, some change how an ability works, and overall is okay. Hulk got dragged into the nerfing corner because of his team ups alone. Doctor Strange nerfs? Kinda deserved, was incredibly strong. Thor's ultimate got buffed- majorly deserved. I made points about all of this in my responses to other people, which I don't blame you for not reading since it wasn't in the original text, I get it.

If you think Hela losing 25 HP will not impact her, you're going to be surprised when the season starts.
If you think Hawkeye's passive range nerf will not effect him, you're going to be surprised when the season starts.

As for Hulk, he did deserve it. His team-up is the strongest offensive one in the game currently (we'll see how that changes), but he also deserved it because of his play pattern. The ability to put a barrier onto all of your nearby allies that not only protects them from damage but also from crowd control effects (which is massive). Reducing his shield was deserved. Anyone that knows how to play the character knows how powerful his Gamma Shield is. You've been saying in the comments "Hulk is not good", when he actually is pretty powerful in the right hands, just not your hands apparently.

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door Shuyin178:

Origineel geplaatst door Mayo:

Then nerf the team up, not Hulk by himself. Also seasonal bonuses from Season 0 are staying into Season 1. Because Season 0 was not a typical season, it was basically their test period. I said eventually they'd lose their bonus HP after SEASON 1 was over.

Hela got a -25 health reduction, and a 5% seasonal damage nerf. (From 20%) Her problem wasn't her survivability, its her damage. I will say that Hawkeye was more changed than nerfed, in that they want to reduce the range his passive ability procs, ontop of a 10 damage nerf when that passive is at its MAXIMUM.

Hela's may be substantial, we'll see. 5% can be a lot. Hawkeye? It means he has to be slightly closer to be viable, but will still do roughly the same damage. I don't count Hela's little -25 HP nerf to be proper, because again- survivability wasn't her problem, her damage was. Also note in my post I said Cap got buffed, which I then put {Deserved} because I dont think anyone here complained about him getting buffed... a majority of the community knew he needed buffed.

Point being: I know what I'm talking about, I can clarify what doesn't seem clear, and know they shouldnt have nerfed Hulk when he gets NO VALUE from his team ups. They only buff other characters, so nerfing him is just idiotic from the dev team and I will die on that hill.

I also noted in some of my responses that quite a few changes are actually decent in the patch notes. Some are smaller, some change how an ability works, and overall is okay. Hulk got dragged into the nerfing corner because of his team ups alone. Doctor Strange nerfs? Kinda deserved, was incredibly strong. Thor's ultimate got buffed- majorly deserved. I made points about all of this in my responses to other people, which I don't blame you for not reading since it wasn't in the original text, I get it.

If you think Hela losing 25 HP will not impact her, you're going to be surprised when the season starts.
If you think Hawkeye's passive range nerf will not effect him, you're going to be surprised when the season starts.

As for Hulk, he did deserve it. His team-up is the strongest offensive one in the game currently (we'll see how that changes), but he also deserved it because of his play pattern. The ability to put a barrier onto all of your nearby allies that not only protects them from damage but also from crowd control effects (which is massive). Reducing his shield was deserved. Anyone that knows how to play the character knows how powerful his Gamma Shield is. You've been saying in the comments "Hulk is not good", when he actually is pretty powerful in the right hands, just not your hands apparently.

I will say the Hela and Hawkeye changes may or may not be significant, I want to see how it plays more before really calling them completely dogwater. Hulk though? You point it out yourself... His team ups are the problem. His barrier really isn't. Can it deny ultimates? Of course. So can a lot of other abilities that have far less impact. At the cost of how "good" they are, they also only have 100 HP compared to his personal one of 250. You have to constantly pick between either using it for yourself, or using it for your team. When you use it for the team, you are actively sacrificing your ability to dive in to be defensive- and then back to a long cooldown. If I wanted to defend more often, I'd just play Strange, Magneto, or even Groot. His shield is his ONE GOOD ABILITY. His stun requires a lot of teamwork to use in a team effort, or it just outright disables someone only for him (In many cases they may already be close to death) and his clap is his one ranged utility in a game full of people who can out-shoot you.

I'm aware of how good he CAN be. I also see how BAD he can be. You don't need to try and insult how I play based on how situational his entire kit is. He is not overly strong. His nerf to his shield is only for HIS shield, not even the AoE version of it. If you want point out his positives, go for it.
Anyone who knows Hulk knows his Bubble is his bread and butter, the one thing that makes him decent. They just nerfed a character who already has a difficult time performing well EVEN UNDER BETTER HANDS. Not to mention, again, most of his "usefulness" comes from his team ups. You don't nerf his survivability over a team up ability, you nerf the team up ability directly, which they didn't.

I am not the best. I never said I was, I stated in my first post I'm only diamond 3 before I stopped doing competitive last year. It doesn't give you the right to start belittling my opinion over it.

[Shamalamadingdang]

Jeff is the real elephant in the room. Everyone is pissed/happy/confused etc. because all of these buffs and nerfs are coming. Fine, I get it. However, if the integrity of the game is so important that we need to carefully tweak health, damage, movement speed, etc. then we have to do something about the little meme character who can team wipe. Either we have a game that must be carefully balanced to ensure that those who have the best team work and skills come out on top....or we have Jeff. You can't have both. Ban Jeff from competitive or give him a totally different ult.

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door Shamalamadingdang:

Jeff is the real elephant in the room. Everyone is pissed/happy/confused etc. because all of these buffs and nerfs are coming. Fine, I get it. However, if the integrity of the game is so important that we need to carefully tweak health, damage, movement speed, etc. then we have to do something about the little meme character who can team wipe. Either we have a game that must be carefully balanced to ensure that those who have the best team work and skills come out on top....or we have Jeff. You can't have both. Ban Jeff from competitive or give him a totally different ult.

Jeff is a strange one to me. He has a lot of survivability, but his healing is actually a bit mediocre. His ultimate was a bit too big and that's getting remedied a bit...

To be honest, the only part of Jeff that makes him frustrating is the fact that when he ults: You have NO idea where he is until its too late. If he was simply diving under the water like normal, it'd be a bit more fair. The only indicator you get for his ult is a loud sound- and then have to frantically separate before everyone gets eaten, because he is invincible and invisible during the cast time.

Jeff otherwise I think is fairly fine...Maybe making it so he can't just go underwater when he has everyone in his mouth? That also makes it a bit annoying. Constantly regenerating health, small hitbox while stopping everyone from playing the game- friend and foe alike.

His heal is pretty cool and passes through people, as well as not having the worst damage, but could maybe be tweaked. It's hard to say how I'd really want to change him for certain because he actually has a lot of survivability, just confusing in other departments.

[AvidExpert]

What rank are you OP?

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door Jincel #1:

What rank are you OP?

Currently diamond 3, as of December 22nd or so. Went on vacation and didn't want to grind more, I haven't played a ton of comp since.

[KaZudra]

Honestly his nerf will be minimal to anyone below diamond.

[Mayo]

Origineel geplaatst door KaZudra:

Honestly his nerf will be minimal to anyone below diamond.

I think its a little more substantial even if people wont notice at a certain point. It means the shield may die faster and leave you a lot more vulnerable. Depends how people play him, there is a lot of variety to that.