The Dilation Tree actively punishes the player???

[shinami]

It is a major setback to lose 5% of your purchased amount on the first three Dilation upgrades. How did this even make it into the game? It actively discourages the player from experimenting with the dilation tree to make progression. Every failed attempt to progress or find a better tree setup becomes wasted time that can only be fixed by WAITING for your lost upgrade purchases to eventually recover alongside your DP income. This also turns every failed attempt to progress into an exercise of frustration. Whoever thought it was a good idea to punish the player with the loss of progression for every reset of the Dilation Tree does not know what fun is.

[Kyouko Tsukino]

Do you need to reset the dilation tree at all? It looks like something you would only want to do if you think you will gain a lot more benefits from distributing your dilation tree points in a different way.

[shinami]

Originally posted by Kyouko Tsukino:

Do you need to reset the dilation tree at all? It looks like something you would only want to do if you think you will gain a lot more benefits from distributing your dilation tree points in a different way.

Yes, you do. You start from a center perk that splits into three lanes; Top, middle, and bottom. The top lane provides a buff to dilation upgrade #1, increased DP from eternities, reducing the supernova reqs, and buffing the bottom perks. The middle lane buffs dilation upgrade #2, gives eternities per second, powers up all Supernova bonuses, and buffs the middle lane. The bottom lane buffs dilation upgrade #3, increases lab levels based on unused AP, increases DP based on supernova count, and buffs the top perks.

Each perk can be leveled up five times. Each perk and subsequent levels cost 1 point each. Your goal is trying to find the ideal distribution of points for maximizing either the number of supernovas you can do, getting more AP for lab levels, acquiring more RP, buffing supernova bonuses, buffing a Dilation perk, or raising your DP gains. The cost of points scales stupid hard. It starts out around 1e30 and very quickly becomes something you rarely purchase. I threw in the towel with the next point costing 1e240 DP while I was stuck at at 16 points, 1e220 DP, supernova 120, 1e2400 EP, and well over 10k AP.

[Kyouko Tsukino]

Ah, it's a munchkin thing.

Nevermind then, nothing to see here, I'm moving along.

[roboticaust]

Def need to reset them often early on. I'd say around the time you get 2 points (in other words, enough to start branching paths) you will start to feel things grind to a crawl unless you figure out how to manage resets with them. I can definitely see this being less of a thing later on, but early on... 100% need to.

Editing in a hint. One branch is a power build up, one branch is a supernova push, and one branch is a supportive to the other two

[fractalgem]

> Every failed attempt to progress or find a better tree setup becomes wasted time that can only be fixed by WAITING for your lost upgrade purchases to eventually recover alongside your DP

if you are munchkining things...

This means you are doing it poorly. If you have to WAIT for dp to recover you should just try a different combo that focues entirely on maxing out DP income...

or swap to entirely focusing on passive eternities and wait for THOSE to pile up. That's the only time you should be doing a long wait as you get into the tree.

then, When you switch back to focusing on DP gain you should be able to spam click "MAX" until you have what you need.

(TLDR version: The only major waiting you should be doing is when everything is in the middle path on passive eternity gain. Don't try to do everything at once or your build will suffer)

[shinami]

Originally posted by fractalgem:

if you are munchkining things...

This means you are doing it poorly. If you have to WAIT for dp to recover you should just try a different combo that focues entirely on maxing out DP income...

or swap to entirely focusing on passive eternities and wait for THOSE to pile up. That's the only time you should be doing a long wait as you get into the tree.

then, When you switch back to focusing on DP gain you should be able to spam click "MAX" until you have what you need.

(TLDR version: The only major waiting you should be doing is when everything is in the middle path on passive eternity gain. Don't try to do everything at once or your build will suffer)

Try reading my post where I explained how the feature works. You'll see I tried doing exactly what you recommended; focusing on maximizing each individual aspect of eternity via focused perk choices with each tree reset.

That said, I'm not going to waste my time bashing my head against an unintuitive wall that punishes me every time I fail to guess the right way forward. The loss of progression just feels bad to the point it killed my motivation to even play the game. That ought to mean something considering the very nature of how prestige systems reset player progression.

[fractalgem]

nearly everything BUT the top three upgrades is untouched. ergo, everything else is your actual progression. AP, the bottom 6 upgrades, and tree points, THOSE become your progression.

it's nowhere near as much a blow as that first eternity feels like.

[shinami]

Originally posted by fractalgem:

nearly everything BUT the top three upgrades is untouched. ergo, everything else is your actual progression. AP, the bottom 6 upgrades, and tree points, THOSE become your progression.

it's nowhere near as much a blow as that first eternity feels like.

Do you even have the Dilation Tree unlocked? The top three upgrades drastically reduce the score needed for supernovas. Every supernova raises the multipliers to your lab and eternity bonuses. Your eternity bonuses scale off how many eternities you've done and act as a multiplier to EVERYTHING ELSE.

[fractalgem]

Originally posted by shinami:

Originally posted by fractalgem:

nearly everything BUT the top three upgrades is untouched. ergo, everything else is your actual progression. AP, the bottom 6 upgrades, and tree points, THOSE become your progression.

it's nowhere near as much a blow as that first eternity feels like.

Do you even have the Dilation Tree unlocked? The top three upgrades drastically reduce the score needed for supernovas. Every supernova raises the multipliers to your lab and eternity bonuses. Your eternity bonuses scale off how many eternities you've done and act as a multiplier to EVERYTHING ELSE.

by bottom 6 upgrades untouched I meant the regular dilation upgrades, not the tree upgrades.

Reshufflying the tree doesn't touch those, it doesn't touch your eternitites, it doesn't touch your animal points, it ONLY touches the top three regular dilation upgrades, and it doesn't even delete them completely, letting you DO the shuffle between DP focused builds and AP/supernova focused builds.

[shinami]

Originally posted by fractalgem:

by bottom 6 upgrades untouched I meant the regular dilation upgrades, not the tree upgrades.

Reshufflying the tree doesn't touch those, it doesn't touch your eternitites, it doesn't touch your animal points, it ONLY touches the top three regular dilation upgrades, and it doesn't even delete them completely, letting you DO the shuffle between DP focused builds and AP/supernova focused builds.

I'm well aware of what is affected by resetting the tree. I thought you were saying the top row of perks in Dilation Tree were not necessary for progression when they very much are required. That said, I still stand by my argument that losing ANY form of progression for resetting the Dilation Tree is terrible design and should be removed from the game. The partial loss of your purchased upgrades becomes especially noticeable when you have well over 1,000 purchased upgrades which I did before giving up.

[Thanatos]

I agree that losing progression to reset the dilation tree is terrible design. If it has to have a penalty it should be on a timer if anything, like you can only reset it once an hour or whatever.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

Uh oh. This sounds a bit like Antimatter Dimensions' time studies tree. Where eventually you have to follow a hyper-specific meta to get anywhere, and/or do math. Which ceases to be an idle game for me at that point, and is where I get filtered. I hope not.

(Side note: And I don't know what "munchkining" is, but if it means "someone who doesn't meta-game and tries to just intuitively puzzle things out for themselves, and doesn't want to have to do actual math of follow an exacting tedious step by step guide to play an idle game." that's me lol.)

[Elementus]

It takes less than 10 minutes to get back the upgrades you lose on respecing your dilation tree.

[shinami]

Originally posted by Elementus:

It takes less than 10 minutes to get back the upgrades you lose on respecing your dilation tree.

Do you even know what point I was at before quitting the game?

[Elementus]

Originally posted by shinami:

Originally posted by Elementus:

It takes less than 10 minutes to get back the upgrades you lose on respecing your dilation tree.

Do you even know what point I was at before quitting the game?

Yes, you said you're at dilation tree. And like I said repecing only loses you about 10 mins of progress.