The grind to unlock cards is horrible

[Catgirl (male)]

Nothing kills my motivation to use a faction as seriously as knowing that half of the card pool and artifact pool isn't even in the game. It would be one thing if the cards unlocked quickly over the course of a couple of runs, but I cannot fathom the logic behind making it so that actually having everything in the game is a *reward* rather than an expectation.

The people who need the dopamine drip of constantly leveling up and unlocking stuff are objectively wrong in every single possible interpretation of this situation. I have 30 hours in the game and still have most of the factions nowhere near rank 10. That is insane. Please, please add an option to instantly unlock each clan's pool of options.

Originally posted by Catgirl (male):

Originally posted by Wintersend:

Have you considered that the purpose of it is to not overwhelm players with options right from the get go

Yeah, I'm calling major, super ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on "can't overwhelm players because they're too stupid to read."

I have seen this used to justify everything from CORE, CHARACTER-DEFINING ABILITIES in Darkest Dungeon 2 only existing after a whole bunch of runs, to Space Marine 2 having that PLUS linear upgrades that literally do nothing but add +10% damage to your weapons, meaning there is no gameplay effect to the grind except to gate you from the higher difficulties until you've done your part to bolster their player count.

Deep Rock Galactic is even worse about this, and don't get me started on how MMORPGs make you play 150+ hours with nothing but three buttons that all do the same thing. At least those two have the excuse that they're live service games and therefore keeping you in their player count with the dopamine drip is life or death for the genre. Space Marine 2, Darkest Dungeon 2, and every single Slay the Spire ever made have no such excuse.

[Cadmus]

I have literally played for what 7 hours? All clans unlocked, and all are above rank 5. What grind?

[Catgirl (male)]

Originally posted by Cadmus:

I have literally played for what 7 hours? All clans unlocked, and all are above rank 5. What grind?

http://imgur.com/a/cEDLcwA

[Wintersend]

Have you considered that the purpose of it is to not overwhelm players with options right from the get go and instead slowly introduce the more complex cards and mechanics as well as encouraging trying out new builds when you see the card that makes a build work?

[Catgirl (male)]

Originally posted by Wintersend:

Have you considered that the purpose of it is to not overwhelm players with options right from the get go

Yeah, I'm calling major, super ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on "can't overwhelm players because they're too stupid to read."

I have seen this used to justify everything from CORE, CHARACTER-DEFINING ABILITIES in Darkest Dungeon 2 only existing after a whole bunch of runs, to Space Marine 2 having linear upgrades that literally do nothing but add +10% damage to your weapons, meaning there is no gameplay effect to the grind except to gate you from the higher difficulties until you've done your part to bolster their player count.

Deep Rock Galactic is even worse about this, and don't get me started on how MMORPGs make you play 150+ hours with nothing but three buttons that all do the same thing. At least those two have the excuse that they're live service games and therefore keeping you in their player count with the dopamine drip is life or death for the genre. Space Marine 2, Darkest Dungeon 2, and every single Slay the Spire ever made have no such excuse.

[workworkwork]

Originally posted by Catgirl (male):

The people who need the dopamine drip of constantly leveling up and unlocking stuff are objectively wrong in every single possible interpretation of this situation.

Naturally, the folks who get their dopamine hits from winning runs with what the RNG gods decide to bequeath to them are a superior species.

There's no guarantee the best cards are available in a run, so I work with what's given.

[Violent Rainbow]

I think it's fun earning new cards and artefacts as you progress

[n13e86]

It is indeed fun to get something out of your attempts.
The cards you actually need, are unlocked after the first run or two.
Plus, it helps when you unlock something other than "yet another difficulty level".
You mistake "having everything unlocked" for "having everything in the game". You start with everything in the game. The game begins right away.
You don't NEED those rewards. But they are a nice reminder that you have something to look forward to.

[アンジェル]

Originally posted by Catgirl (male):

The grind to unlock cards is horrible
Nothing kills my motivation to use a faction as seriously as knowing that half of the card pool and artifact pool isn't even in the game. It would be one thing if the cards unlocked quickly over the course of a couple of runs, but I cannot fathom the logic behind making it so that actually having everything in the game is a *reward* rather than an expectation.

The people who need the dopamine drip of constantly leveling up and unlocking stuff are objectively wrong in every single possible interpretation of this situation. I have 30 hours in the game and still have most of the factions nowhere near rank 10. That is insane. Please, please add an option to instantly unlock each clan's pool of options.

You just keep playing within the "one-more-turn"-effect. Or do you prefer buying them with real money?

[Izunyami]

I do think the level up could be faster. If it was just five clans, it'd be fine. But having ten clans at this rate? And the sub clan gets a lower share of the experience?

[Cacheelma]

You "unlock" cards so that they can be "randomly" found during your next playthroughs; just like Slay the Spire. You NEVER get anything you unlock right away unless you count the alternate heroes or new clans.

[n13e86]

Originally posted by Izunyami:

I do think the level up could be faster. If it was just five clans, it'd be fine. But having ten clans at this rate? And the sub clan gets a lower share of the experience?

The speed with which you level up also depends on how well you did in the run.
And, Dimensional Challenges contribute to level up (while having fixed clan choices), so it would make sense to do those.

[siepu]

Originally posted by Izunyami:

I do think the level up could be faster. If it was just five clans, it'd be fine. But having ten clans at this rate? And the sub clan gets a lower share of the experience?

Yeah, when I got the reveal that now I also have 5 factions from the first game, instead of being excited, all I could think about was 'damn, more grind'. Now I'm at a place, where to get to the end game my starting train units have to deal 8k damage. ♥♥♥♥ that.

I've played the first game for many hours, this game is not that complex, just let me play what and how I want to.

[Prometheus]

People are too stupid is an absolute justification. People in fact are too stupid. If you are wondering the context I am talking about the answer is: Yes.

[Wintersend]

It's not even a stupidity thing, its lack of information and information overload. The first time you play a faction your only indicator for what the faction is is the initial clan champion, their starter card, and whatever you get in the first pack and A1 cards. Having a limited pool allows for much tighter, more focused design where you are naturally shoved into one of the generally 3 main ways to play a clan, and usually the one that is the most straightforward and is least dependent on knowing what you are looking for.

Without that you can see the options for all 3 different ways the clan is supposed to play and they are all bad if you aren't focused and at least one of them is going to be highly synergy dependent. You don't know what a clan does until after you've played with it and the first unlocks then open up the other major ways to play and catch your eye to start thinking about how your run could have gone differently if you had those, and then once you are run through those, you get the next Champion. I do agree getting to 10 takes longer than it probably needs to but the unlocks do serve a purpose for onboarding into each Clan.


You flat out cannot know information you've never been given and can't be expected to make decisions based on that information.

[Felix Krowe]

Just have fun playing the game - unlocking new cards is only part of the fun. It's about the journey, not the destination.