Pyreborn are bad?

[Cindeerella]

That’s my feeling, the only cov 10 titan run I did was Pyreborn-Underlegion with Lady Gilda and harvest path and spore-shooting guys (I don’t need explain how). And so far here what it feels for me, since I kinda used clan a lot in different combos:

1) Pyreborn heroes are trash. Because they take 3 space slots, meaning you almost can’t put anything else on that line, before you take +floor size after first boss. And that not saying that their progressions are very bad. On Fenix slay path is almost useless, very slow scaling which is unacceptable in high covenant; conjunction is s joke, giving only 2 gold eggs at lvl 3 (!), and that’s when you have only 2 battles left to cash in; pyregel is fine one, but have its own issues I’ll describe more later.

Lady Gilda is just atrocious. 3 space heroes are terrible but she has a path that makes her into 5 (!!!!!) space monster, makes it almost entirely impossible to play around her early game (unless yoy have ascending/descending spells; harvester path is hands down the best one, but funnily enough, Pyreborn has 0 way of really benefiting from it on themselves; And gold path is kinda weird, yeah you can have You can have over 500 attack body but so what? Clan has no way no make it better, no trample, no multishot, no real weapons/buffs to benefit it. So very sad.

2) Units. They feel terrible imo, they are among worst units in game. Yeah Zealot and Fire Breating Dragon are cool, but almost all other units are 100% worthles or reauire some tremendous builds that I can’t think about, and besides, you can’t put good units with heroes, because it would be filling 2+3 floor slots, meaning you completely filled it and can’t summon some 1-slot dummies for blocking hits. And since clan has no heal, no mitigation, no lifesteal, no regen, no damn armor scaling, meaning all hit counts.

3) Dragon hoard is pretty bad. Lik yeah, investment≠reward. that’s kinda cool if you got lucky with some good RNG (burnout dragon+ endless for example), but otherwise it’s pretty worthless thing.

4) Artifacts. I’ll say honestly, Pyreborn artifacts feels bad imo, especially in comparison to Underlegion artifacts.

5) In-clan synergies. They just don’t exist for me, I can’t see any two units/spells together as solid combo piece like in other clans.

What do you think? Please share some tips if you have. I really like dragons with their design, but playing it feels kinda awful!

[Izunyami]

Lord Fenix: Overlord is a path where you should build for a strong equipment and base him as your main DPS, Golden Crown should take advantage of the artifacts or cards that trigger cooldown reduction so you can spam his ability/egg gain (this makes him more of a support), Pyremanic is a pyregel support.
There's plenty of one and two space monsters all over to use with Fenix, and you shouldn't be thinking about any clan in pure isolation but how they might synergize with other clans.

I haven't touched Gilda much but she looks more-or-less the same as the Imp Mother champion. Her Gildmother path should have NOTHING to do with fighting, she's there to protect the egg so you can get run-economy, maybe pick off waves on the top floor. Bloat Matron would probably work really well with +space rooms and endless whelps to spam pyregel stacks. And Lady Avarice is also pure economy but more suitable for bottom/mid floor.

Pyreborn units don't need 1 slot dummies to take hits. All of the dragons have pretty solid HP stats and can take hits - couple with an ally clan's defensive options, and they can be pure tanks. My Pyreborn is only level 7 so I don't have every unit unlocked, but up to level 7, only one Pyreborn unit is size 3+ so your size criticism doesn't really apply. You can use almost every Pyreborn unit with 5/6 of the Pyreborn champion paths. Yeah, you can't get dummy hits but that's why you need to use the ally clan as support.

BTW Goldtooth is absolutely insane if you have a strong avarice build (Lady Gilda + Misers..) but Greed Dragon is one of the best units in the game. You don't need to cash in those gold eggs as the boost is usually not worth it after Cael. If you hit 8 eggs, Greed dragon becomes a 100/115 monster. If you can get 11 or 13 eggs, he becomes a 130/145 or 150/165 monster. On base stats.

A tip for Dragon Horde - Golden Touch with -1 cost and holdover or +10 magic power turns it into a really easy way to farm eggs off of weaker backlines. I can usually score 4 or 5 eggs in a battle off of it.

Other people might have better synergy combos, but try Pyreborn with Hellhorned (rage and armor support), Umbra (feed those dragons), Banished (valor), you could even try Lazarus for reanimation support on whelps to trigger a bunch of other effects (cooldown reduction artifact, Gilda Bloat Matron triggers, etc).

I will agree that their artifacts do feel underwhelming. The pyregel artifacts seem good, even if you're not running heavy on pyregel, and Golden Gloves giving all of your units Avarice 2 is nice, but the rest are uninspiring. The Dragon Horde has decent choices but yeah.

[Tricking Trapster]

I like them. They were my first clan to get to max level. There's several synergies with pyregel - Decay and Frostbite to name a few - Or they can support another clan by making oodles of money/artifacts with dragon hoard and avarice. In my experience they work best when combined with other clans - Either as meatshields for fragile ones (like luna coven backlines) or as pyregel stacking backline themselves. I've had successful runs with Gilda's egg path, having a lot of artifacts really helps out in certain combos.

Try stacking pyregel and then using a lot of 0 cost spells on them. Or stack pyregel and decay/frostbite. Maybe you have a faction that is very upgrade reliant, or you want to copy a lot of their cards with lifemother pyre - Make some money with avarice/dragon hoard. It may take a few tries for the game to give you a truly great setup but that goes for most clans.

[letir]

Heroes are more on support side, and they can use some external help to get better. Golden Crown Felix is good support for egg build if you alredy have some tools, and he can become better with Mind Cage. Treat them as way to your killer build, not main tools.

Pyreborn have plenty of strong units, money and egg dragon can be buffed to very high stats if you accumulate resources. Guy with 10 avarice is moneymaker. Pyregel on incant is strong in some incant build or with their staff which doing damage on incant.

Dragon hoard can be frustrating to get going if you didn't get any tools early, but it provide insane value if you manage to create engine. Even without cashing it, certain units/spells can use counter to become stronger.

Artifact wise, Pyreborn are pretty well set. Avarice 2 on everyone mean a lot of gold in unit-focused strat, pyregel-related items are good enough (especially pyregel on ascending), buff to dragons are okay.

And for units, having a bunch of strong independant choices help them blend with other clans better. You don't need a lot of synergy or tools to make their units work, which is definitly avantage compared to some other clan units.

[EagleWiz]

The heroes are some of the worst, not going to argue that, but they have some really good units, and the spells aren't bad either.

[Tricking Trapster]

It's almost as if they are greedy dragons that make their minions do all the work for them. Hmmmmm.

[Cadmus]

I had Avarice 10 on a Cultist (Cult of lamb crossover unit). Put dualism and quick on him, and kept his attack low, he naturally has 1 dmg and 5 Multiattack. Money maker there, best one easy.

As for Pyreborn. They were my first game clear. Holdover, dualism Valor 40 card. Mwah. Felix Overlord, unstoppable. Had him over 500 dmg. Trample Bird in the back and quick bird. Nothing came close, nothign ever left first floor.

[Jarges]

Originally posted by Cadmus:

I had Avarice 10 on a Cultist (Cult of lamb crossover unit). Put dualism and quick on him, and kept his attack low, he naturally has 1 dmg and 5 Multiattack. Money maker there, best one easy.

As for Pyreborn. They were my first game clear. Holdover, dualism Valor 40 card. Mwah. Felix Overlord, unstoppable. Had him over 500 dmg. Trample Bird in the back and quick bird. Nothing came close, nothign ever left first floor.

Over 500 dmg will not be able to clear first floor with trample on high covenant(which discussion is about), where enemies spawn with 600hp, 2-3 of them at the time.

[Gabriot]

I highly recommend learning the game before calling something bad. The fact you think dragon hoard is “pretty bad” kind of shows how green you are with the clan. You can literally earn like three times the artifacts as you can with other clans through very basic dragon hoard stacking, on top of a bunch of extra gold. Or alternatively you can just hold it if you have greed r
dragons and voila you can make an army of easy to play shadowsieges.

[PewSquare]

Yeah, this seems to be a huge writeup that just highlights that you don't exactly understand the clan, or card game as in depth. Economy is huge. Like really REALLY huge. Getting extra artifacts and gold is insanely good.
When it comes to golden egg path, in general you want more than 1 source. You want to try and cash in after every battle, not after every 3 battles. That alone gives you runs where you have 15 or more artifacts. And enough gold to buy out every shop you come across. And at that point you don't need your hero, your units completely take over.

When it comes to spells, pyreborn can have some silly explosive turns. A tiny bit of pyregel on a unit and then start doubling it... multiple times? Bosses will die before they even enter the floor.

[XartaX]

Because allied clans exist, they're good. Sure they'd be kinda bad if they were on their own, but all their tools have huge synergy with whoever they're paired with. More artifacts, more money, pyregel works with everything, etc. etc.

[gaarm987]

waxer reform/ with harvest pyregel path seems pretty good with lady fyra

[Cacheelma]

You know? When I first started playing MT1, I hated it. Very much. I couldn't win anything. Always failed near the end. Everything seemed bad. And I quit. I didn't care enough to post about it though, I just moved on and thought it's not for me.

Then recently I watched people play. And I learned. And I do what they did. And it's fun! I realized I simply didn't know how to play. I couldn't' evaluate things correctly. But once I learned, I do a lot better. And MT1 and MT2 are just fun.

My recommendation: Keep trying. Watch people play. Or move on and play something else. Not everybody likes every game. I, for one, can't deal with difficult games like Elden Ring or Dark Soul. And it's ok. Nothing's wrong with that.

[Tom (68inchPianist)]

pyregel is also really good with the multi-hit spells that pyreborn get; make it rain is cheap but costs a bit of gold (which you'll be swimming in as pyreborn) and will proc the pyregel bonus 4 times for each monster on a floor.

[Cindeerella]

Thanks everyone for replying, I partially can agree with most of your problems, but Pyreborn still have lots of issues imo.

Yeah sure I'm not the best player, but I've already done 8/18 combos for titan covenant 10 runs, so I guess I'm not completely wasted noob either.

Yes they can synergize with other clans very well, but why almost every other clan is completely self sufficient? I can get 13 hoard eggs per run, but that's only because of death-abusing shenanigans, you will never able to reliably get even 10 eggs with just pyreborn cards themselves on high covenants. Stacking pyregel can be atrrocious, Pyreborn have nothing that can benefit stacking, even through inacant. And 3 sized champions are totally not justifying it, at all, they're pretty underwhelming and only decent in few combinations, I think Pyreborn champions are the worst ones from all MT2 clan champions overall.

While yes, you can make some wild combos, I'm upset, becasue lots of other clans can pretty much carry run just themselves (Underlegion, Banished, Remnants, Coven, Lazarus those maybe the easiest ones), but Pyreborn just require other clans to fill their gaps, which is, maybe a fun thing, but makes runs with clans you hate (Umbra and Awoken for me personally) jsut plain painfest. You have half baked clan that can't carry stuff on itself and you also have to add stuff you hate to play.

So after playing more I still think that Pyreborn is a weaker clan. It's capable of doing strong thing, but it's much weaker than Stronger clans (which makes it weak in comparison)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3488833458
You can check my screenshot oof my runs if you want, I'm keeping track of it.

[XartaX]

I mean I'd rather take Fenix over Talos any day