Is hotline miami 2 harder than the first game?

[gaurdianAQ]

I'm looking for opinions, do you feel that hotline miami 2 is harder than the first game? In the first game I generally averaged B's with the occasional A and C thrown into the mix...

But in hotline miami 2 I practically always get D's (with the few mission exceptions where I got A's)

Do you think this is just because the change in some of the level design forces me to play in different ways I'm not so good at? In the first one I pretty much always used the tony mask and just went around murdering everything with my fists, the first one also in most levels made heavy use of close quarter combat, hotline miami 2 seems to have a lot more open levels that make more use of windows and such forcing different tactics depending on the levels.

Thoughts?

[HawaiiMark]

HLM2 is definietly harder than the first one. And not just because of the wide open areas, the AI's reaction times are shorter, MORE FAT GUYS and enemies usually have guns, not melees.

The biggest factor is Dead Ahead tho.

[angstlicht]

Do you think this is just because the change in some of the level design forces me to play in different ways I'm not so good at?

baaaaascially.

melee is actually easier in hm2, its just not a viable option most of the time to use it and only it.

[PEPNKEK]

if someone says that hotline miami 2 is hard due to its level design only tell them the doctor recommends this

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/39746009032843444/32C3DF6A33B2D25A940D8C34F7EB0BFFFED4E5C8/

so says the guy who types walls of text.

but seriously tho guns are a more viable option this game not melee unless you like to bait enemies in which case go nuts.

[Valentine]

Actually, I think that Hotline Miami 1 is harder than Wrong Number. In WN, I'm presented with large, smoothly drawn out maps with a fantastically performing game. The soundtrack is electrifying and each level has its own *tune*. I thought that HLM2 was harder, but in reality once you know what you need to to on a level you can just plow through.

But, recently, I went back and tried a few levels of HLM1 and I was presented with these tight and conjointed maps. I was presented with EXTREMELY FAST twitch gameplay with admittedly less smooth response and such. The soundtrack was intense and heartpounding, and each level was the same kind of feel to it that gave off claustrophobic pressure. In HLM2 you can easily retreat and hide, guide and rethink, and just get one really good combo with the same weapon to seal the deal. In HLM1 you have to be quick, exposed, loud, flexible, and combo-chaining. You have to get executions and door-slams, and overall it may be more challenging.

TL;DR The way HLM1 feels and plays is more intense and harder than HLM2, but HLM2 just has level design that makes things near impossible rather than actual engine and gameplay to up the ante.

[angstlicht]

Originally posted by Hawkxton:

But, recently, I went back and tried a few levels of HLM1 and I was presented with these tight and conjointed maps. I was presented with EXTREMELY FAST twitch gameplay with admittedly less smooth response and such. The soundtrack was intense and heartpounding, and each level was the same kind of feel to it that gave off claustrophobic pressure. In HLM2 you can easily retreat and hide, guide and rethink, and just get one really good combo with the same weapon to seal the deal. In HLM1 you have to be quick, exposed, loud, flexible, and combo-chaining. You have to get executions and door-slams, and overall it may be more challenging.

what makes hm1 harder in some ways is the tag-your-it insta-melees and the really screwy enemy baiting, neither of which are good design.

that said, saying ANY HM1 level is like seriously challenging or forces you to play a certain way or change tactics or vary your playstyle is just a hilarious no. you can brute force the game easily because it accepts all answers. "claustrophobia" can't exist when you can melee away all your problems. all the tightness of the levels does is make it reaaaaally easy.

there are portions of hm1 that change it up, but these are completely gimmicky. the van with molotov cocktails, the biker fight, the panthers and katana lady. completely different from the usual gameplay and completely unnatural and none of the elements are ever really reused or established prior (like with the producer introducing fatties).

HM2 on the other hand toys with how you actually play the freakin game. combo-ing the first floor of demolition is just amazing and natural and nothing in hm1 stacks up to that kind of intensity.

[Riot Control]

I played the cracked version of hm2 ... and yes I got stuck in a level and it took 1 hr 4 me to finish it.

[soahk]

Hotline Miami 2 is definitely more diffucult than the first. Without a doubt. But its easily doable. Can be completed in 4-8 hours (from my experience)

but what really gets he is Hard mode. the additional enemies, windows, bodyguards ect makes the experience a lot harder and at some times. almost impossible.

Im only up to the end of Act 2. but the mission where you have to board the ship took me 70+ minutes to complete.

[HawaiiMark]

Originally posted by soahk:

Hotline Miami 2 is definitely more diffucult than the first. Without a doubt. But its easily doable. Can be completed in 4-8 hours (from my experience)

but what really gets he is Hard mode. the additional enemies, windows, bodyguards ect makes the experience a lot harder and at some times. almost impossible.

Im only up to the end of Act 2. but the mission where you have to board the ship took me 70+ minutes to complete.

Dead Ahead on Hard. I hear ya man.

[Xeno 115511]

short and simple answer, YES, a very big YES!

[Dosto]

Yes, it is, specially on hard mode.

[angstlicht]

Originally posted by Galil FRA:

On reddit i said that Hotline Miami 2 was impossible to enjoy(and it is), and i got lots of upvotes.

i like the purity of this ledditpost. it's like every reason to prefer literally any other thing to reddit and absolutely nothing else.

[Valentine]

Originally posted by nagasockittome:

Originally posted by Hawkxton:

But, recently, I went back and tried a few levels of HLM1 and I was presented with these tight and conjointed maps. I was presented with EXTREMELY FAST twitch gameplay with admittedly less smooth response and such. The soundtrack was intense and heartpounding, and each level was the same kind of feel to it that gave off claustrophobic pressure. In HLM2 you can easily retreat and hide, guide and rethink, and just get one really good combo with the same weapon to seal the deal. In HLM1 you have to be quick, exposed, loud, flexible, and combo-chaining. You have to get executions and door-slams, and overall it may be more challenging.

what makes hm1 harder in some ways is the tag-your-it insta-melees and the really screwy enemy baiting, neither of which are good design.

that said, saying ANY HM1 level is like seriously challenging or forces you to play a certain way or change tactics or vary your playstyle is just a hilarious no. you can brute force the game easily because it accepts all answers. "claustrophobia" can't exist when you can melee away all your problems. all the tightness of the levels does is make it reaaaaally easy.

there are portions of hm1 that change it up, but these are completely gimmicky. the van with molotov cocktails, the biker fight, the panthers and katana lady. completely different from the usual gameplay and completely unnatural and none of the elements are ever really reused or established prior (like with the producer introducing fatties).

HM2 on the other hand toys with how you actually play the freakin game. combo-ing the first floor of demolition is just amazing and natural and nothing in hm1 stacks up to that kind of intensity.

So there's no screwy enemy baiting in any HM2 levels?
Not on Demolition?
Or Dead Ahead?
Not even Takeover?
Not on Subway?
Never once in the entirety of Seizure?
First Blood, House Call, Release?
It's impossible to be forced to do that on Moving Up?
Final Cut's out of the question?

There is less "tag-your-it insta-melees" but at the same time the guys with the guns are seriously snap-shot now. "Melee away all your problems" doesn't apply when the fat guys came into play and Tony hadn't been rebalanced at the time. I called it claustrophobia because it's not like, guess what level, Dead Ahead where you're fighting in a shipyard. One of the levels for the first game literally makes you tank through 3 or 4 floors of apartments.

"HM2 on the other hand toys with how you actually play the freakin game." You just established that HM1 did that with the boss fights but now it doesn't, but now this does? In what way does it toy with the gameplay?

"all the tightness of the levels does is make it reaaaally easy." I'm sure that's true if I hadn't had the opportunity to do "Highball" and the Biker level in the resteraunt. As well as "Neighbors" that also introduced the claustrophic atmosphere I actually wrote about.

"completely different from the usual gameplay and completely unnatural and none of the elements are ever really reused or established prior " So Writer, who was never established prior isn't a problem with this line of reasoning? Especially the "different from the usual gameplay" part. Let's just pretend "Apocalypse" didn't do any of those things either.

Comboing an entire level in HM1 is possible and natural and intense, too, you know. But I mean, supposing you never actually played the first floor of "Crackdown". Or "Vengeance".

"that said, saying ANY HM1 level is like seriously challenging or forces you to play a certain way or change tactics or vary your playstyle is just a hilarious no." So that level that takes place in the club didn't make me change my playstyle? Even though I can't actually run and gun the entirety of the thing once I get to the second portion? Okay, then.

Yeah, because I brute-forced the game, got "Executioner" and proceeded to fail an A+ attempt simply because I had to be bolder and quicker rather than executing. Whereas in HM2, it apparently doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ as long as you got a x5 combo once or twice and 90 x3 combos alone.

The only "hilarious no." here is your grammar and logic.

[Valentine]

Originally posted by Hawkxton:

Actually, I think that Hotline Miami 1 is harder than Wrong Number. In WN, I'm presented with large, smoothly drawn out maps with a fantastically performing game. The soundtrack is electrifying and each level has its own *tune*. I thought that HLM2 was harder, but in reality once you know what you need to to on a level you can just plow through.

But, recently, I went back and tried a few levels of HLM1 and I was presented with these tight and conjointed maps. I was presented with EXTREMELY FAST twitch gameplay with admittedly less smooth response and such. The soundtrack was intense and heartpounding, and each level was the same kind of feel to it that gave off claustrophobic pressure. In HLM2 you can easily retreat and hide, guide and rethink, and just get one really good combo with the same weapon to seal the deal. In HLM1 you have to be quick, exposed, loud, flexible, and combo-chaining. You have to get executions and door-slams, and overall it may be more challenging.

TL;DR The way HLM1 feels and plays is more intense and harder than HLM2, but HLM2 just has level design that makes things near impossible rather than actual engine and gameplay to up the ante.

I do conceed that HM2's hard mode is harder than both games combined.

[angstlicht]

Originally posted by Hawkxton:

So there's no screwy enemy baiting in any HM2 levels?

compared to hm1? not reeeeally.

Not on Demolition?
Or Dead Ahead?
Not even Takeover?
Not on Subway?
Never once in the entirety of Seizure?
First Blood, House Call, Release?
It's impossible to be forced to do that on Moving Up?
Final Cut's out of the question?

uh, you HAVE to bait in HM2. the difference is unlike hm1 it actually works most of the time.

There is less "tag-your-it insta-melees" but at the same time the guys with the guns are seriously snap-shot now. "Melee away all your problems" doesn't apply when the fat guys came into play and Tony hadn't been rebalanced at the time. I called it claustrophobia because it's not like, guess what level, Dead Ahead where you're fighting in a shipyard. One of the levels for the first game literally makes you tank through 3 or 4 floors of apartments.

fatties were comparatively rare and they're by far the most typical way the game forces you to not just punch the whole time.

"HM2 on the other hand toys with how you actually play the freakin game." You just established that HM1 did that with the boss fights but now it doesn't, but now this does? In what way does it toy with the gameplay?

i said hm1 mixed it up trashily. you don't clear out levels in hm1 by using skills learned in the biker fight.

"all the tightness of the levels does is make it reaaaally easy." I'm sure that's true if I hadn't had the opportunity to do "Highball" and the Biker level in the resteraunt. As well as "Neighbors" that also introduced the claustrophic atmosphere I actually wrote about.

as someone who A+'d both those levels in literally under 3 minutes of being introduced to them, i disagree. the only levels that were kiiiiiinda challenging is hot and heavy, and even then only for the room with the four mini-rooms in it.

"completely different from the usual gameplay and completely unnatural and none of the elements are ever really reused or established prior " So Writer, who was never established prior isn't a problem with this line of reasoning?

writer has 3 full levels.

Especially the "different from the usual gameplay" part. Let's just pretend "Apocalypse" didn't do any of those things either.

apocalypse is just usual gameplay. the swans and mark fight dynamic is learned in demolition and reinforced with the opening to release.

Comboing an entire level in HM1 is possible and natural and intense, too, you know. But I mean, supposing you never actually played the first floor of "Crackdown". Or "Vengeance".

uh, it isnt. because its so freakin simple.

"that said, saying ANY HM1 level is like seriously challenging or forces you to play a certain way or change tactics or vary your playstyle is just a hilarious no." So that level that takes place in the club didn't make me change my playstyle? Even though I can't actually run and gun the entirety of the thing once I get to the second portion? Okay, then.

that's not a serious impasse that forces you to kinda rethink situation. it's literally "oh, i can't use gun because hm1 guns suck anyway." and the dance club is kinda really easy to run nd gun iirc.

Yeah, because I brute-forced the game, got "Executioner" and proceeded to fail an A+ attempt simply because I had to be bolder and quicker rather than executing. Whereas in HM2, it apparently doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥ as long as you got a x5 combo once or twice and 90 x3 combos alone.

hm2 kinda forces you to be bold just to not die. massive combos take timing and risk are a great problem solving challenges. and im pretty sure its impossible to get 90 x3 combos ever on any level.

[Valentine]

"uh, you HAVE to bait in HM2. the difference is unlike hm1 it actually works most of the time." Too bad it's never happened with me that easily. That's actually pretty subjective. And you have to bait in HM1 so gg on contradicting yourself.

"fatties were comparatively rare and they're by far the most typical way the game forces you to not just punch the whole time." There's multiple fatties in the majority of levels after introduction. And you also say the above, but that betrays what I quote you in the original statement itself. Make up your mind, already.

"i said hm1 mixed it up trashily. you don't clear out levels in hm1 by using skills learned in the biker fight." You don't have to clear out levels in HM2 by using skills learned from the SWAT guy fight in Final Cut

"as someone who A+'d both those levels in literally under 3 minutes of being introduced to them, i disagree. the only levels that were kiiiiiinda challenging is hot and heavy, and even then only for the room with the four mini-rooms in it." Yeah, but it's pretty opinionated and subjective, since I personally went back and did the entire game over again to get Get A Life. "Neighbors" is also a fantastic rebuttal to "Melee all your problems away"

"writer has 3 full levels." But he was never prior established.

"apocalypse is just usual gameplay. the swans and mark fight dynamic is learned in demolition and reinforced with the opening to release." When is anything similar to the swans an occurrance in Demolition? And there's nothing similar to Mark in Demolition either.

"uh, it isnt. because its so freakin simple." Comboing in HM2 is also simple. It's still natural to get them, and the intensity could derive from not losing the entirety of the thing. I also liked the lack of a combo counter.

"that's not a serious impasse that forces you to kinda rethink situation. it's literally "oh, i can't use gun because hm1 guns suck anyway." and the dance club is kinda really easy to run nd gun iirc." HM1 guns aren't that different from HM2 guns.

"hm2 kinda forces you to be bold just to not die. massive combos take timing and risk are a great problem solving challenges. and im pretty sure its impossible to get 90 x3 combos ever on any level." 10/10 Would make exaggeration for a point for an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to not understand anyway. So being bold to not die or not being bold and dying (by your logic) never happened in the first game? Getting massive combos never occurred as timing and risk to you, and problem solving never occurred in HM1? 101/0 would see someone turn a 4.5 opinion of HM1 into a 0.01 star opinion upon playing sequel.