A theory on the pig butcher and his place in the games story

[PEPNKEK]

DISLCAIMER IF YOU USE MY THREAD FOR ANYTHING LIKE A VIDEO OR ANOTHER THREAD LET ME KNOW I WANNA SEE STUFF LIKE MY THREAD OR A VIDEO LIKE IT THAT TRIES TO EXPLAIN THE VAGUE AND AMBIGUOUS PARTS OF THE HOTLINE MIAMI 2 STORY DON'T LEAVE ME OUT OF THE LOOP NOW.

All right so we all know that 'martin brown' aka the pig butcher has no time or place intro things like every other character in the game (most likely due to his losing touch with reality and becoming the obsessive killer he is now) this among many other things i noticed in game leads me to believe that everything he imagines to be true is not. (all the killings he does being fake movie deaths when they are in fact real kills he is performing the phone his director this being a movie is fake and imagined by him) why you might ask would i say that and what evidence do i have to prove well my theory is this the person you play as who is the pig butcher is not martin brown but is in a fact a deranged maniac who thinks he is him in order to emulate the horrible acts he saw on the news about jacket and in the movie the real martin brown starred in and is also committing these horrible acts along his obsession with killing people brutally and here are some points i have come across to help prove my theory to have valid evidence to support what i am about to suggest about the pig butcher we play in the game.

point 1- the movie midnight animal is released over 20 days before the interview with the real martin brown as some info that appears in the into the pit level shows us.

point 2- in the comics (Yes i am aware the dates were wrong but still the comics give backstory on the games charcters and dennaton signed off on it so shut up about the wrong dates.) the pig butcher is shown to be an incredibly phsychopathic person who believes just acting a scene is not enough and lacks that extra pizzaz and in order to give a truly great performance you have to live the character you are committing to with every fiber of your being (which he does as shown by his incredibly gruesome killings.)Also on an unrelated note the body build of the butcher in the comics and in game are different so there's also that.

point 3- in his opening level after murdering everyone in the house besides his version of hooker he proceeds to '♥♥♥♥ her' (whether he did it or not is open to debate we just see him take his pants off after getting over her) after which the director yells cut telling martin he did a great job and reprimanding the hooker look alike and telling her to act more scared and frightened for the pig butcher also this is something that would please the pig butcher validating for him the actions he just committed and explaining why she is so frightened and come the pig butchers final level pulls a total 180 and guns him down in cold blood.

point 4- in the level final cut the script you read on the table of former jackets house states that martin easily overcomes the cops in the witness room and gets to the girl (which is hard to believe if we are to think he is a professional actor but is totally viable if he is just a delusional maniac) and in reality we saw that this was not the case because when the pig butcher enters the witness room the cop next to her falls back but she grabs his gun and proceeds to gun the pig butcher down in cold blood contradicting the script at the beginning of the level and helping to further cement the idea that this is not a movie he is in and is merely murdering real cops and people and the movie along with the phone calls is his way of justifying his actions and a part of the delusion his psychotic mind is creating for him due to his delusional state and obsession with acting out what he saw in the movies and news in real life himself.

Point 5- this point helps to prove that the pig butcher is committing these murders after the movie of jackets actions comes out and also explains a scene with manny pardo along with being able to pin the pig butcher down in an actual date and time in the hotline miami 2 story If you will recall after playing the caught level in manny's dream where he kills most of the people in the police station before flashing his badge outside and getting gunned down outside of the station in a dream and then proceeds to wake up in a cold sweat gets a call from his station telling him that there is a situation at the police station and they need him there now to help before he says he is not feeling good and then proceeds to hang up the phone i propose this that situation that guy was talking about was not the nuke which some people will try to counter argue this point with but is instead the pig butchers rampage through the police station another side point to this is that before this happens the same swat guy seen in deathwish as well who's head is ripped off literally by the pig butcher is seen a few days before arguing with manny about who should go confront the remaining fan tony in the sons new compound which helps us not only see that the pig butcher is committing these murders in reality however this also helps us pin him down in the timeline of the game on a specific day and time in the game which helps make sense of the fact there are no time stamps in the two levels we play as him and as we can see what he does in his two levels actually have some impact in the game and do happen during the games timeline despite what the game shows us and portrays as a movie is in fact not that but instead when the pig butcher is finally gunned down the director and girl telling him to get up is his delusional mind telling him for the last time that he did good in his own eyes even in his last moments he still imagines himself as an actor in a movie and never breaks character even in his dying breaths while the girl is probably not asking if he is ok but rather is he finally dead and is this nightmare she is in finally over which is also a good idea of what is happening in reality outside of the pig butchers delusion happening during his final moment and also is a good context for why in her final moments she is drinking alcohol and being depressed sad and traumatized due to the previous events she just recently experienced.

FINAL POINT FOR NOW (because i am still going to be looking for more evidence in the game to help support this theory i have and will update this page with more info when i find any or if anyone tells me some and i can see if its true in game as well.) this point i am about to talk about that has in game events to also help support my theory and is what led to me even coming up with this theory in the first place is that at the beginning of Final cut where you are taken to the police station the police officer who interrogates the pig butcher (i say pig butcher because nobody ever seems to call him martin brown except for the director and the hooker look alike who guns him down so he is probably imagining the things she says and the director as well because as already stated with evidence to support it the kills he commits are real and not a movie.) tells him they know what he has been doing for the past few weeks (referencing the past few murders the pig butcher has done in both the game and in the comic as well.)along with remarking that he is completely ♥♥♥♥ed up in the head to be doing these things while wearing a pig mask the pig butcher then states that there is a phone on the table they are both sitting across from and that it is ringing and then asks if the police interrogator is going to answer the phone to which the police officer retorts that he does not see a phone nor hear a phone and then tells hims that the phone is just a figment of his imagination and that he is an insane maniac and that soon enough he will pay for his crimes before getting frustrated when the pig butcher asks him to answer the phone yet again and turns around to knock on the door for his partner outside as you can see from the fact that his arrest is a real thing this shows us that everything he has been doing up until now in both the comics and previous levels have been real killings along with kidnapping the hooker look alike to make his own girlfriend which as shown she really did not want to be and expresses this in his final scene before his death before his hallucinations take over for the last time to congratulate him on his work before he bleeds out this guy is clearly not the real martin brown because nobody but the director and hooker look alike ever say that name and that's only when his hallucinations are happening to help keep him in the mind state that this is just a movie you will notice that through out the whole interrogation and when he is apprehended by the police they never mention a name for him or say or think that he is martin brown only that he is a maniac who has commited many murders in a pig mask for no discernible reason other than he wanted to which is true this also helps to solidify the fact that he is both an unreliable narrator and also a deranged fan emulating the real martin brown and indeed not the real martin brown because only in his hallucinations does anybody call him this in reality I.E the police station and the arrest show nobody knows who he is other than a murderer in a pigs mask who kidnapped a woman that looks like hooker to make her his girlfriend.

In closing (for now because i will update this page if i find any new info to help support my theory or if anyone brings me any new info that i find to be true in the game as well to support or disprove what i have proposed to be true about the pig butcher)this is what i have to help give actual weight so far to my theory about 'martin brown' aka the pig butcher we play as i have many other theories as well but wanted to start with martin first because as far as the other characters go in the story he is an anomaly due to his levels having no time stamp along with him being an unreliable narrator because the game purposely makes it hard to discern whether he is actually in a movie or if he is just nuts and actually doing this in real life while imagining it is just a movie because a recurring theme among the hotline miami games is ambiguity in some scenes along with a story you have to piece together yourself and unreliable narratives from some characters with unclear motives for why they are completely massacring people for reasons you sometimes won't fully be able to understand until some level replays and further inspection because you will not see everything the game shows your first playthrough because this game has those don't miss it moments that happen throughout the story.

[KronQ]

This dude actually wrote something consisting of almost 1500 words and used, like, 5 stops and 0 commas.
Hold me and my sides.

[PEPNKEK]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

This dude actually wrote something consisting of almost 1500 words and used, like, 5 stops and 0 commas.
Hold me and my sides.

Hey kronq how you been.

[KronQ]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Eldingo:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

This dude actually wrote something consisting of almost 1500 words and used, like, 5 stops and 0 commas.
Hold me and my sides.

Hey kronq how you been.

Pretty well, but this wall of text kinda made my evening. But hey, more power to any hero attempting to read this, I kinda envy him.

[PEPNKEK]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Eldingo:

Hey kronq how you been.

Pretty well, but this wall of text kinda made my evening. But hey, more power to any hero attempting to read this, I kinda envy him. [/quoteI love the lore of this game and like any fan who wants to piece together the complicated story is posting a theory about the games biggest wild card of a character the pig butcher

[responsible bedtime]

Please learn to finish setences.

[KronQ]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Eldingo:

I love the lore of this game and like any fan who wants to piece together the complicated story is posting a theory about the games biggest wild card of a character the pig butcher

Sure, but you are going to have hard time finding anyone to discuss it with by using incoherent walls of text. Really, I'm trying to help you.
Commas exist for a reason. Try reading aloud what you wrote, stopping for a breath each time you reach one.
Exactly.

[responsible bedtime]

Here's a much simpler theory for you all.
Final Cut was real, and it takes place after "Caught", as the Pig Butcher's rampage in the Police Station is what they called their "ultimate killer cop" Manny in for.

[PEPNKEK]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Eldingo:

I love the lore of this game and like any fan who wants to piece together the complicated story is posting a theory about the games biggest wild card of a character the pig butcher

Sure, but you are going to have hard time finding anyone to discuss it with by using incoherent walls of text. Really, I'm trying to help you.
Commas exist for a reason. Try reading aloud what you wrote, stopping for a breath each time you reach one.
Exactly.

im always going to be bad at punctuation and if people dont want to read what I post because of that so be it then but im gonna post it nonetheless in the hope someone does read it and wants to compare notes with me on this.

[PEPNKEK]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Aztec Fitness God Kars:

Here's a much simpler theory for you all.
Final Cut was real, and it takes place after "Caught", as the Pig Butcher's rampage in the Police Station is what they called their "ultimate killer cop" Manny in for.

this thread is about a theory with most of the wall of text being evidence from the game for why its true and how most people have the wrong idea about the pig butcher in full context to what he does in the story and what time and place his levels take place.

[KronQ]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Aztec Fitness God Kars:

Here's a much simpler theory for you all.
Final Cut was real, and it takes place after "Caught", as the Pig Butcher's rampage in the Police Station is what they called their "ultimate killer cop" Manny in for.

It makes sense and it doesn't. Thought about it myself, but the whole thing just looks like a crappy slasher - cops being scared of "very scary maniac", the way he got out of the interrogation room, hero SWAT dude.
The only explanation would be that he mixes reality with the movie, so he is actually murdering people while thinking he plays in a mediocre horror.
But then, in one of the endings we see the interview with Martin in Richter's TV. They wouldn't air it if he went nuts, now would they?

[PEPNKEK]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Aztec Fitness God Kars:

Here's a much simpler theory for you all.
Final Cut was real, and it takes place after "Caught", as the Pig Butcher's rampage in the Police Station is what they called their "ultimate killer cop" Manny in for.

It makes sense and it doesn't. Thought about it myself, but the whole thing just looks like a crappy slasher - cops being scared of "very scary maniac", the way he got out of the interrogation room, hero SWAT dude.
The only explanation would be that he mixes reality with the movie, so he is actually murdering people while thinking he plays in a mediocre horror.
But then, in one of the endings we see the interview with Martin in Richter's TV. They wouldn't air it if he went nuts, now would they?

that theory i feel has too many inconsistencies to be viable it was the theory i was gonna post at first but there was too many holes in it for me to go with it which is why this thread has gone a different way and like the theory states the pig butcher we play as is a deranged maniac who is not martin brown but an obsessed fan emulating the movie he saw and the martin brown at the end of the game is the real martin brown doing an interview over 20 days after said movie has come out giving the pig butcher we play as plenty of time to do his levels and die by gunshot wounds before said interview.

[PEPNKEK]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Aztec Fitness God Kars:

Here's a much simpler theory for you all.
Final Cut was real, and it takes place after "Caught", as the Pig Butcher's rampage in the Police Station is what they called their "ultimate killer cop" Manny in for.

It makes sense and it doesn't. Thought about it myself, but the whole thing just looks like a crappy slasher - cops being scared of "very scary maniac", the way he got out of the interrogation room, hero SWAT dude.
The only explanation would be that he mixes reality with the movie, so he is actually murdering people while thinking he plays in a mediocre horror.
But then, in one of the endings we see the interview with Martin in Richter's TV. They wouldn't air it if he went nuts, now would they?

but hey thats just me if you have anything to add that disproves what i think or helps to prove it post away.

[responsible bedtime]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Aztec Fitness God Kars:

Here's a much simpler theory for you all.
Final Cut was real, and it takes place after "Caught", as the Pig Butcher's rampage in the Police Station is what they called their "ultimate killer cop" Manny in for.

It makes sense and it doesn't. Thought about it myself, but the whole thing just looks like a crappy slasher - cops being scared of "very scary maniac", the way he got out of the interrogation room, hero SWAT dude.
The only explanation would be that he mixes reality with the movie, so he is actually murdering people while thinking he plays in a mediocre horror.
But then, in one of the endings we see the interview with Martin in Richter's TV. They wouldn't air it if he went nuts, now would they?

I thought that broadcast was like the Henchman thing just before Richard appeared as a sign of his arrival (and bringing things back to the start).
But I do think that Martin Brown was actually insane, the Interview with Ellen was a nightmare, and the Final Cut outro with the director was his dying hallucinations, shot by the Girlfriend actor in the station.
Sure it's stupid but it kills off the second foil to Pardo (SWAT Dude) and places Final Cut somewhere on the timeline.

[PEPNKEK]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Aztec Fitness God Kars:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από KronQ:

It makes sense and it doesn't. Thought about it myself, but the whole thing just looks like a crappy slasher - cops being scared of "very scary maniac", the way he got out of the interrogation room, hero SWAT dude.
The only explanation would be that he mixes reality with the movie, so he is actually murdering people while thinking he plays in a mediocre horror.
But then, in one of the endings we see the interview with Martin in Richter's TV. They wouldn't air it if he went nuts, now would they?

I thought that broadcast was like the Henchman thing just before Richard appeared as a sign of his arrival (and bringing things back to the start).
But I do think that Martin Brown was actually insane, the Interview with Ellen was a nightmare, and the Final Cut outro with the director was his dying hallucinations, shot by the Girlfriend actor in the station.
Sure it's stupid but it kills off the second foil to Pardo (SWAT Dude) and places Final Cut somewhere on the timeline.

the problem i have with that theory is that the interviews time of happening is unknown as it may have been a rerun for all we know which is why the broadcast you speak of could have aired before we see it at the end of the game and the pig butcher could have seen it the time between the tutorial level and the final cut level is a week or two so i propose that the interview we see is the pig butchers version of it with him being interviewed instead of the real martin brown.

[responsible bedtime]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Eldingo:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Aztec Fitness God Kars:

I thought that broadcast was like the Henchman thing just before Richard appeared as a sign of his arrival (and bringing things back to the start).
But I do think that Martin Brown was actually insane, the Interview with Ellen was a nightmare, and the Final Cut outro with the director was his dying hallucinations, shot by the Girlfriend actor in the station.
Sure it's stupid but it kills off the second foil to Pardo (SWAT Dude) and places Final Cut somewhere on the timeline.

the problem i have with that theory is that the interviews time of happening is unknown as it may have been a rerun for all we know which is why the broadcast you speak of could have aired before we see it at the end of the game and the pig butcher could have seen it the time between the tutorial level and the final cut level is a week or two so i propose that the interview we see is the pig butchers version of it with him being interviewed instead of the real martin brown.

...okay.
Look do we have to overanalyze ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ everything here?
Seriously, what's actually wrong with "The Police Call Pardo gets at the end of Caught is about the rampage of the Pig Butcher (maybe Martin, maybe someone else) at the station?"