My review/ essay on Torment: Tides of Numenera

[The Mask]

I have posted this on the official T:ToN forums, but I wanted to post it here too, just to maximize the feedback on my thoughts.

Original link: https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=17617

Hello,

This review is intended to be read by anyone that:

1. is an inXile employee that wants to make a better videogame in the future, especially Brian or Kevin
2. fanboys of the original Planescape: Torment
3. people that like to read walls of text.

If you are not part of the above sum of people, it might be very hard for you to go through, you have been warned.

First about me: I've played most of the D&D and CRPG names out there starting from the worst which is ToEE to the best, which we all know what is, P:T. I am also a big fanboy of P:T and the Black Isle games in general.

I also would like to state the fact that while I've seen scores on reviews, I have not read any other than this one, but only to assess the view of a backer to this game. My opinion(s) are my own and unaltered by sites, other people or any other media in general.

Now about you: While my thoughts will be negative on most areas of the game, my critique is (I like to believe) objective. If, dear reader, you are a person unable to take negative criticism, or otherwise unable to understand people have their own opinion, you can feel free to be on your merry way.

That being said, let's begin.

1. Graphics and options:

Let's get this straight right out of the gate and right of the bat: I don't consider Torment: Tides of Numenera (and from now on I will be refering to it by just Numenera, because simply seeing the Torment word grafted onto it makes my stomach churl) a C as in COMPUTER ROLE PLAYING GAME.

In my opinion Numenera is an RPG port from a platform - your call to choose which: PS or Xbone.

Why? Because the graphic options and options in general remind me of the Dark Souls 1 port. Little to nothing. Not even a keyboard zoom function. But anyway... I'm sure no one here is concerned about the graphics of the game, right? We're all concerned about other things, like story and so on, but I still have a question here:

What exactly is burning 8 GB of RAM and a boatload of resources for an isometric RPG?

Honest question. I seriously await a reply for that one. Planescape: Torment used just 64, just fyi.

Anyway... let's move on to 2. Character creation

Before I debate this topic here I would like to discuss something about the original, Planescape: Torment, and how this is the first clue that the creators of this game either forgot or never knew why P:T was so good, and that is the fact that P:T obliterated a lot of D&D and RPG standards.

For those that do not know, early D&D had 3 classes: warrior, rogue and cleric (magic user), which P:T made a mockery out of and said "I don't care about classes and norms, I care about a well-told story". That is why you can switch between them at any moment.

A second thing that seems that the creators of this game seem to have forgot, and as well as many of my peers too, is that P:T emphasized the idea that it doesn't matter who you are, you can be anything you want, and evolve in any way you want. Planescape: Torment is partially the reason why later D&D introduced the fact that you can improve a character via stats. In any way you want!


That is out of the box thinking. That is choice. Real choice.


So back to character creation: you have 3 classes to chose from.

Okay.

But we shouldn't be too anal about these things, right? I mean, it's a new setting, a new way of looking at things, let's roll with it. Is the character creation good?

At first, yes. It's great. Scenarios. Thought process. Results that mirror your way of thinking/solving a problem. Everything is looking good. Right?

Wrong. There are errors in logic even here.

Hey Kevin (Saunders) did you know that every 2 points in stats contribute to 5% either physical evasion or esoteric willpower, depending?

You did?!?

So then why do we have any pool modifying options AFTER the option to even out the points to our pool?

Logic -> window. The process involved? Throwing.

Now let's move on to point number 3. Story set-up and themes

The original P:T had a theme incorporated in the game from the first 5 minutes of playtime. And is the rule of three. You may not have noticed it, but your brain did.

The triangle puzzle. Rule of 3.

Number of echoes of Ravel. 3.

Number of options for last companion. 3.

3 Black-Barbed Charms.

3 Heart Charms.

3 reflections at the end.

3 ways to be lawful.

3 ways to be chaotic.

3 ways to be neutral.

3 options offered by Mebbeth.

3 classes you could be.

3 quests you needed to complete for Mebbeth to train you in the Art.

*sigh* Anyway... you get the point. They were all set-up by the triangle puzzle.

So what is the theme to Numenera?

After about 100 hours of gameplay I'm still struggling with this one.

Is it exploration? But that's not a theme, it's an action.

Is it solving problems through dialogue? But that's not a theme, that's an option.

I think the theme is that if you really struggle hard, and pull nostalgia strings you can get money to make a decent console port that people will buy.
Who should I blame on this one? Brian? Kevin? Which one of you is raising hands for this turd on the middle of the road?

Anyway... let's not be too hard here because this section contains one of the two hints of brilliance that somewhat reminded me of P:T. It was like a sniff. A distant aroma. A scent long forgotten. And here it is:

There is one oddity in the game called Fatherteller (Kina's cave). It's description says that the item shows you the face of your father, but in your case it shows just your face.

That's brilliant!

Why? Because, spoilers, (who cares?) as the Last Castoff you bear the last face your father wore, obviously, but it DOES NOT SHOW A NEW ONE And THAT could've been an amazing theme and set-up for the rest of the game.

But no. It's thrown in into an oddity, at one of the hard gates of the game, like some left-over thought.

You know... looking back, the triangle puzzle in P:T looks and is so brilliant, I seriously doubt anyone in this team of developers had anything to do with it.



Can you guys call director Chris Avellone for him to come back?

CHRIS? CHRIS? HELLO? ARE YOU BUSY? Can you come dig us out of this cesspool of poop we are in? HELLO? PLEASE?


*sigh*


Let's move on shall we? (I know some of you wish this were already over, and I seriously appreciate and respect anyone still reading at this point)

4. Game Mechanics

When it comes to game mechanics we have to address the main appeal of this genre of videogames. It is interacting with the world around you through highly flexible text.
Is Numenera good in regards to that?

Yes.

It is actually one of the few steps forward that the game makes, where skill checks and the interaction of the world around is done organically and it is very immersive. I would like to congratulate any of the team members involved into making this amazing progress here. It is actually very fun to interact with the world around you, and unlike P:T not really being afraid of faliure.
It really is true. Sometimes faliure can be just as rewarding as success. The "must save" reflex gamers have is now put to test, and it's great.

Whoever made this work like this, I salute you.

However there is a flipside to this - the combat. *sigh*

Slow. Enemy + ally turns can take for ever. Allies can sometimes make the most baffling AI targeting choices (Malaise fight, Fist Castoff/Final Sorrow fight) resulting in unnecessary damage taken and complications. My first run I had ToEE flashbacks.


Hey guys...? Kevin? Did you play Temple of Elemental Evil? Did you like it?

If the answer is "yes", go get a head scan, brother.


Let's wade forward.

Character progression. It's brilliant. You feel rewarded apropriately for quests taken, events happening. Conversations/meres explored. Great.

Map design. Brilliant. Everything makes sense. Light sources. Where would people drink water from. Where would they be sleeping. Flawless.

UI. Horrible:

- another difference that you didn't notice, but your brain sure did: the lack of an attack button. Do you remember the choice to be a phychopath? To kill everyone in sight? Not there anymore. You can only battle in specific and contained scenarios.

We should call this Briancare. Thanks Brian for taking care of us.

- lack of party management: I can't move my party members around. I always have to recruit Rhin last, because I can't have a small child in front, so... logic -> window.

- lack of animated portraits. A game 20 years ago had animation in character portraits, but not one made in 2017. Okay.

-------- the horrible lack of narrative reason for the journal. Yet another reason why I think Kevin and/or Brian, and/or this whole team doesn't know why "I updated my journal" works. It's because Rob Paulsen tells us that maybe we should write stuff down in case we forget again.

Is there any such line in this game?

Who cares? Give us your money.

- The keybind for character opens up Last Castoff character screen regardless of whom you have selected. Like... this game was made for a console, or something...

- And now one of my favourite topics: FIELD OF VISION. A great source of comedy in this game is the cypher you're being given at 1 point "to see" the entire map. (sticha questline)

Why?

Our characters have field of vision that sees through walls. It's like they're flying above obstacles. Or it's like this game was programmed by 1st year students.

- lack of detailed portraits. Remember how nice it was to have pictures of your party members posing in their "hero shots"? Remember how it made you more immersed, stimulated your imagination and increased the overall flavour of the game?


Yeah? Well too bad. They're gone. $50 please.


- popping up inventory/ char screen/ journal DOES NOT pause the game. I don't know... it's like I'm forced to explain videogame elements to highschool students at this point.

- no snap-zoom from map to gameplay area on double click. Because this game is a console port. Right. Sorry. I forgot.

- no save marker/bar/notification on screen for autosaves. At this point even highschool students are baffled. Even Dark Souls 1, known as the worst console port of one of the best videogames ever made, HAD a bonfire light up on screen when it made a save.

- 0 control over summoned units. Balefire, Maw or any other. At this point, I feel like beating a dead horse pointing this out.

- fragmenting units of movement, but not fragmenting movement itself. You are limited to 2 moves only. If you need to go around an obstacle - tough luck. This makes Callistege, Matkina and a jack protagonist borderline OP because of their teleportation abilities. This is most obvious a problem during the Miel Avest crisis.

Ambience Relative to Story

This part is actually pretty good. And for one I have to give props to the artists that made that happen through nice looking loading screens and to Mark Morgan's music.

I would like to point out that Miel Avest feels like it should feel, a safe haven, a resting point. But more on music and sound later. I have a few gripes there too. But as far as this goes, the experience was/is immersive.

Item Progression: It's a joke.

- nanos don't get a proper weapon until act 3. Why? Who knows.

- heavy weapons dependant on speed for glaives that focus on speed, or jacks - are an afterthought that we discover in act 4.

- bizzare choice letting the Bloom Armour be affected by the healing skill, making it by far the most over-powered item in the game -> the Bradishes a Silver Tongue focus becoming obsolete. Nanos will take the skill that will let them wear the armour with no penalties. Same with Jacks. Glaives can wear it automatically.

- bizzare choice giving Aligern "Medium Weapons", but giving none in the game that would scale with INT. You wanted us to give him edges in STR? Even more bizzare.

Action and Reaction with the Enviroment

This is the most amazing part of the game, in my opinion. The game, as in characters and quests, does react to your choices, represented by the Tides. Quests can also be influenced by time as well. It is a very well thought game, structurally speaking. The quest trees and the dialogue that accompany them are a showmanship of brilliance, skill, patience and overall desire to surpass Planescape: Torment.


Colin... ? Is this your work? Are the writers to blame for this part? If yes, then congratulations. It's one of the few things dragging this game forward. My respect to you.


PC Relations with Protagonist

While it's nice to look at the past with nostalgia rosey-eyed glasses, P:T didn't have that nailed down much either. I had expected a bit of a progress though. Oh well... I guess that's fine.

5. ("oh god he made just 5 points so far, I want to die" - is that what you thought? Yeah, I feel the same way) Characters

First off I would just like to say that is perhaps beyond me to criticise any work that Colin McComb wrote down. The writing itself in the game is beyond solid. I had immense pleasure of reading descriptions, dialogue and everything in between. It was the first time in a long time I actually hard the pleasure of seeing the word susurrus in a videogame, as well as me being forced to get a dictionary out because of a new word.

As such my critique of the characters, and later, of the script will be very short, and highly subjective. I imagine that any replies to this post that I will get as counters will be because of this part.

a) Aligern

- cardboard filler character. Nothing he was was relatable.

b) Callistege

- I would find her a long more interesting If I knew more about her background. Her backstory is really really thin. I mean, the pursuit of knowledge is great, but... shallow without a backstory.

c) Erritis

- tremendous amounts of fun, (real fun, the memorable kind :D ) encompassed into a tragic tale. Great character. Great story.

d) Matkina

- the thief with the heart of gold. She reminds us why Annah-of-the-Shadows is memorable. My second favourite character. Would bring along every playthrough.

e) Tybir

- who's he again? I forgot...

f) Rhin

- perhaps the best character in the game, and obviously my favourite. The most relatable. The most fun to have. The most memorable. Perhaps the best arc in the game too.


"my bread and hearth are yours to use"

^__^

[Isometric]

a really good review!

[strekalalex84]

There was a certain level of detail and freedom of choice in PS:T which the game lacks. I'm going to compare to PS:T because that's what this game is supposed to be a "spiritual successor" to.

For example, in PS:T you can talk to just about any NPC, however minor, and possibly get a little information for a Journal Update or recover a memory. You also had the freedom to attack NPCs. In ToNN most non-quest-related NPC's just have a one liner above their heads if you click them, and once in a blue moon an attack options opens up in dialogue on a few more major NPCs.

In PS:T, your companions are more unique, have more voice acting, engage in random banter between each other, have animated portraits, and have more fleshed out stories and more character progression through dialogue over the course of the game. You also could also potentially miss out on picking a few of them up, functioning as "secret companions". Except for Rhin and maybe Erritis, in ToNN the level of detail put into the companions is generally lesser.

In PS:T, while you couldn't join every faction of the setting, you had the oppurtunity to join half a dozen of them, complete with special items and abilities. In ToNN, there is only one faction that you can join at the beginning, with very minor perks (free sleeping). PS:T also includes alignment-specific items, while the Tides don't especially mean anything mechanically in ToNN.

In PS:T, while it thins out toward the end game, there were more areas and those areas were likely to have 4 or 5 buildings that you can enter, and there was a world map, and sometimes you return to areas later. In ToNN, there are less locations and you're lucky if they have one building, and once you leave a main area you can never return to it. The overall scope of the game is lesser. While PS:T doesn't have you visit every plane, there is more exploration of different areas. ToNN gives you a setting with lots of potential but confines you to a two main areas and a small in between area, with just lore hints about the rest of the world. It feels like the middle is cut out.

In PS:T, the dialogue heavy aspect is balanced out with a decent amount of combat oppurtunities, including a handful of dungeon-crawl type areas and some random combat encounters. In ToNN, the importance of combat is minimized even more than it is in PS:T, with the game almost being designed to incentivize you to skip it the majority of the time. You don't get a lot of oppurtunity to make use of your combat abilities and items.

[urielowa]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by sewi:

You seem to suffer under some severe delusions of what constitutes an insult and what doesn't. :) But have fun riding through your fluffy dream world oh knight in shining armor.

If you had read OP you wouldn't wrote it's a nice review, it's a huge emmotive garbage with someone that feel important so he targets people he thinks important, ridiculous, crap review.

EDIT:
Seriously read the crap, this will avoid you wrote stupidities.

To tell someone to "read it all" and criticize people if they hadn't is quite a feat, if you say yourself "I couldn't read all" a few posts before.
Especially, if the other person claims to have read it.


Back2topic:
I read the whole review and i have to say it's really interesting.
I know and also i own P:T, but it's too far in the past when i played it.
I always only had in mind, this game was the "mental" successor to P:T, but as i said....too far back in the past^^
So i tried looking at this game from another point of view.
It's difficult for people who like and love P:T and compare these two games (which somehow makes sense), i admit that.
But for people like me who don't share that intense bond to P:T, it's far easier to have another perspective on this game.
I see it as a game on it's own. It shares some things i know with P:T but that's all. Nothing else.
And somehow i like this game. I like the way to "use your Statpoints" to overcome challenges and obstacles. And until now (a admit, i am not that far in the game yet) i could prevent any possible combat.
It's a refreshing feeling.

But also i agree, this game has many many flaws, especially with some of the companions (Background, and so on). But i haven't met all of them right now.

[Ichthyic]

the worst which is ToEE

I actually liked Temple of Elemental Evil... modded the hell out of it and did multiple run throughs.

OTOH, it NEEDED to be modded just in order to have it not be entirely buggy so....

still, I would hardly rank it the worst.

my personal worst that I actually managed to finish was "Pools of Radiance"
that was a crapfest of bugs from start to finish, with a terrible story and bad combat.

I cannot for the life of me figure why I even decided to finish it.

none of the games InXile has made are even in the same category of "bad".

frankly I found this particular game to be a rather unique push towards a hybrid adventure/rpg where the game was more focused on the "adventure" part than the "rpg" part.

I think they actually could have made it better by turning it into a pure adventure game, frankly, and entirely skipping the combat scenarios.

[Isometric]

finally someone that doesn't think Numenera setting sucks or that the game is too short.

[The Mask]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Perhaps you should do yourself games? Sigh.

If Brian Fargo offers me a job, I would 100% take it, and make videogames for him. I'd even work for him for minimum wage. Hands down.

Originally posted by Dorok:

I don't share you love of PS:T

Then the review is not for you, brother. No offense.

Originally posted by Dorok:

EDIT: And frankly target people and mix sort of review with sort of insults, that's very kiddish, and very boring but for yourself. IT destroy a lot any arguing you perhaps build, or not.

I admitted right out of the gate that I am a fanboy, and on the flipside I'm sure you loved it when I appreciated Collin's work, so I'm not sure if your thought-process is fair.

Originally posted by sewi:

Nice review. I haven't finished the game myself, but what I got from the day or so I put into it so far pretty much seems to mirror your own observations. I remember putting the game down thinking "if you guys hate video games so much, why don't you just stick to writing novellas and novels?" because of all the obvious issues with TToN.
As a result though, I have been doing just that, and it's been a blast. So... it all worked out in the end... something like that.

Thank you for the kind words, dear sir. ^__^

Originally posted by Isometric:

a really good review!

Thank you very much! ^__^

Originally posted by strekalalex84:

For example, in PS:T you can talk to just about any NPC, however minor, and possibly get a little information for a Journal Update or recover a memory. You also had the freedom to attack NPCs. In ToNN most non-quest-related NPC's just have a one liner above their heads if you click them, and once in a blue moon an attack options opens up in dialogue on a few more major NPCs.

I chose to be positive about that one. I did say that the apothecary in the Bloom, who does exactly what you detail here, is a brilliant choice to immerse the player with.

It was not a deal-breaker for me, but it is definitely a positive when you can interact with absolutely everyone, no matter how tiny or insignificant they might seem. ^__^

Originally posted by strekalalex84:

In PS:T, your companions are more unique, have more voice acting, engage in random banter between each other, have animated portraits, and have more fleshed out stories and more character progression through dialogue over the course of the game. You also could also potentially miss out on picking a few of them up, functioning as "secret companions". Except for Rhin and maybe Erritis, in ToNN the level of detail put into the companions is generally lesser.

In PS:T, while you couldn't join every faction of the setting, you had the oppurtunity to join half a dozen of them, complete with special items and abilities. In ToNN, there is only one faction that you can join at the beginning, with very minor perks (free sleeping). PS:T also includes alignment-specific items, while the Tides don't especially mean anything mechanically in ToNN.

In PS:T, while it thins out toward the end game, there were more areas and those areas were likely to have 4 or 5 buildings that you can enter, and there was a world map, and sometimes you return to areas later. In ToNN, there are less locations and you're lucky if they have one building, and once you leave a main area you can never return to it. The overall scope of the game is lesser. While PS:T doesn't have you visit every plane, there is more exploration of different areas. ToNN gives you a setting with lots of potential but confines you to a two main areas and a small in between area, with just lore hints about the rest of the world. It feels like the middle is cut out.

In PS:T, the dialogue heavy aspect is balanced out with a decent amount of combat oppurtunities, including a handful of dungeon-crawl type areas and some random combat encounters. In ToNN, the importance of combat is minimized even more than it is in PS:T, with the game almost being designed to incentivize you to skip it the majority of the time. You don't get a lot of oppurtunity to make use of your combat abilities and items.

I agree with every single word you said, but had I made my review even longer, there would be even less people that would read it. I tried to sum what you just wrote into my conclusion and cut things a bit short.

So... essentially, yes. You make a lot of valid points.

Originally posted by Isometric:

finally someone that doesn't think Numenera setting sucks

The Numenera setting is actually quite fascinating, really. Arthur C. Clarke kind of vibe - "any technology sufficiently advanced can be indistinguishable from magic". ^__^

Originally posted by Isometric:

the game is too short.

To be 100% fair, the game *is* a bit short. If you know what you're doing, you can finish it in less than 24h of continuous gameplay. But I didn't bring that up, because that would be juvenile compared to all the other points I've made.








Thank you to everyone that has read this so far. You are much appreciated. <3 ^__^

[The Mask]

No dev acknowledgements on any of the points I made here, and neither on the official forums. Okay.

If words don't work, then I'll be speaking with my wallet next time.

Thanks again.

[Isometric]

Originally posted by The Mask:

No dev acknowledgements on any of the points I made here, and neither on the official forums. Okay.

If words don't work, then I'll be speaking with my wallet next time.

Thanks again.

don't be so down, I'm pretty sure they are reading all the feedback, at least Sea does.

[Bombast]

Originally posted by The Mask:

No dev acknowledgements on any of the points I made here, and neither on the official forums. Okay.

If words don't work, then I'll be speaking with my wallet next time.

Thanks again.

Dude, they've got at least 50,000 customers spread over 2 official forums, plus twitter and youtube. And for every in detail review, their's a hundred racist rants, death threats, troll post, and brown nosing wastes of time reads.

There literally isn't enough time in the day for them to read or respond to everything.

[Dorok]

@sewl

Originally posted by The Mask:

....
Hey Kevin (Saunders) did you know...
....
Who should I blame on this one? Brian? Kevin?
...
Can you guys call director Chris Avellone for him to come back?
...
CHRIS? CHRIS? HELLO? ARE YOU BUSY? Can you come dig us out of this cesspool of poop we are in? HELLO? PLEASE?
....
Hey guys...? Kevin?

If the answer is "yes", go get a head scan, brother.
...
We should call this Briancare. Thanks Brian for taking care of us.
....
I think Kevin and/or Brian, and/or this whole team...
...
It's because Rob Paulsen....
....
Colin... ? Is this your work? Are the writers to blame for this part?
...
Colin McComb wrote down...
...

Sorry but OP way to wrote a review, is... facepalm.

Originally posted by The Mask:

No dev acknowledgements on any of the points I made

Lol, how old are you?

EDIT: And a tip don't insult someone if you want catch his attention.

[nakoda]

Is there a way to actually block seeing posts by another individual?

I am getting really sick of Dorok hijacking every thread with his derision, insults, and vitriol.

I'd prefer to just block him than report him until he gets banned, I mean, he *does* say coherent things once in awhile.

[The Mask]

Originally posted by Dorok:

And a tip don't insult someone if you want catch his attention.

Here's a new word for you to search up in the dictionary: satire.

And stop being blunt, you're wasting everyone's time. Maybe search that word too: blunt.

And here's a real tip for you son: I was nice so far. 99% of the people out there that know where this game is coming from, won't write down a single word. They're just going to stop buying their games.

I love what this company is trying to do, hence why I am so vocal - as mentioned before, the alternative is for me to start talking with my wallet. And that hurts more than words in this world, pal.

So how about you grow up, and leave me alone. ^__^

[The Mask]

Originally posted by nakoda:

I am getting really sick of Dorok hijacking every thread with his derision, insults, and vitriol.

That's a moderator's job. Nothing we should be concerned of.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by The Mask:

....
Hey Kevin (Saunders) did you know...
....
Who should I blame on this one? Brian? Kevin?
...
Can you guys call director Chris Avellone for him to come back?
...
CHRIS? CHRIS? HELLO? ARE YOU BUSY? Can you come dig us out of this cesspool of poop we are in? HELLO? PLEASE?
....
Hey guys...? Kevin?

If the answer is "yes", go get a head scan, brother.
...
We should call this Briancare. Thanks Brian for taking care of us.
....
I think Kevin and/or Brian, and/or this whole team...
...
It's because Rob Paulsen....
....
Colin... ? Is this your work? Are the writers to blame for this part?
...
Colin McComb wrote down...
...
...
No dev acknowledgements on any of the points I made

The problem is it's not a way to do make a review, you can name that satire, it doesn't change it's a wrong way.

[The Mask]

Originally posted by Dorok:

The problem is it's not a way to do make a review, you can name that satire, it doesn't change it's a wrong way.

And what is "the right way"? Your way? What if my way is different?

Are you high, brother?

Have you read any of the points I made? Have you played the original game?

Great troll, dude. 10/10

If you like this game, you've just proven my theory that only dummies like it.