My review/ essay on Torment: Tides of Numenera

[The Mask]

I have posted this on the official T:ToN forums, but I wanted to post it here too, just to maximize the feedback on my thoughts.

Original link: https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=17617

Hello,

This review is intended to be read by anyone that:

1. is an inXile employee that wants to make a better videogame in the future, especially Brian or Kevin
2. fanboys of the original Planescape: Torment
3. people that like to read walls of text.

If you are not part of the above sum of people, it might be very hard for you to go through, you have been warned.

First about me: I've played most of the D&D and CRPG names out there starting from the worst which is ToEE to the best, which we all know what is, P:T. I am also a big fanboy of P:T and the Black Isle games in general.

I also would like to state the fact that while I've seen scores on reviews, I have not read any other than this one, but only to assess the view of a backer to this game. My opinion(s) are my own and unaltered by sites, other people or any other media in general.

Now about you: While my thoughts will be negative on most areas of the game, my critique is (I like to believe) objective. If, dear reader, you are a person unable to take negative criticism, or otherwise unable to understand people have their own opinion, you can feel free to be on your merry way.

That being said, let's begin.

1. Graphics and options:

Let's get this straight right out of the gate and right of the bat: I don't consider Torment: Tides of Numenera (and from now on I will be refering to it by just Numenera, because simply seeing the Torment word grafted onto it makes my stomach churl) a C as in COMPUTER ROLE PLAYING GAME.

In my opinion Numenera is an RPG port from a platform - your call to choose which: PS or Xbone.

Why? Because the graphic options and options in general remind me of the Dark Souls 1 port. Little to nothing. Not even a keyboard zoom function. But anyway... I'm sure no one here is concerned about the graphics of the game, right? We're all concerned about other things, like story and so on, but I still have a question here:

What exactly is burning 8 GB of RAM and a boatload of resources for an isometric RPG?

Honest question. I seriously await a reply for that one. Planescape: Torment used just 64, just fyi.

Anyway... let's move on to 2. Character creation

Before I debate this topic here I would like to discuss something about the original, Planescape: Torment, and how this is the first clue that the creators of this game either forgot or never knew why P:T was so good, and that is the fact that P:T obliterated a lot of D&D and RPG standards.

For those that do not know, early D&D had 3 classes: warrior, rogue and cleric (magic user), which P:T made a mockery out of and said "I don't care about classes and norms, I care about a well-told story". That is why you can switch between them at any moment.

A second thing that seems that the creators of this game seem to have forgot, and as well as many of my peers too, is that P:T emphasized the idea that it doesn't matter who you are, you can be anything you want, and evolve in any way you want. Planescape: Torment is partially the reason why later D&D introduced the fact that you can improve a character via stats. In any way you want!


That is out of the box thinking. That is choice. Real choice.


So back to character creation: you have 3 classes to chose from.

Okay.

But we shouldn't be too anal about these things, right? I mean, it's a new setting, a new way of looking at things, let's roll with it. Is the character creation good?

At first, yes. It's great. Scenarios. Thought process. Results that mirror your way of thinking/solving a problem. Everything is looking good. Right?

Wrong. There are errors in logic even here.

Hey Kevin (Saunders) did you know that every 2 points in stats contribute to 5% either physical evasion or esoteric willpower, depending?

You did?!?

So then why do we have any pool modifying options AFTER the option to even out the points to our pool?

Logic -> window. The process involved? Throwing.

Now let's move on to point number 3. Story set-up and themes

The original P:T had a theme incorporated in the game from the first 5 minutes of playtime. And is the rule of three. You may not have noticed it, but your brain did.

The triangle puzzle. Rule of 3.

Number of echoes of Ravel. 3.

Number of options for last companion. 3.

3 Black-Barbed Charms.

3 Heart Charms.

3 reflections at the end.

3 ways to be lawful.

3 ways to be chaotic.

3 ways to be neutral.

3 options offered by Mebbeth.

3 classes you could be.

3 quests you needed to complete for Mebbeth to train you in the Art.

*sigh* Anyway... you get the point. They were all set-up by the triangle puzzle.

So what is the theme to Numenera?

After about 100 hours of gameplay I'm still struggling with this one.

Is it exploration? But that's not a theme, it's an action.

Is it solving problems through dialogue? But that's not a theme, that's an option.

I think the theme is that if you really struggle hard, and pull nostalgia strings you can get money to make a decent console port that people will buy.
Who should I blame on this one? Brian? Kevin? Which one of you is raising hands for this turd on the middle of the road?

Anyway... let's not be too hard here because this section contains one of the two hints of brilliance that somewhat reminded me of P:T. It was like a sniff. A distant aroma. A scent long forgotten. And here it is:

There is one oddity in the game called Fatherteller (Kina's cave). It's description says that the item shows you the face of your father, but in your case it shows just your face.

That's brilliant!

Why? Because, spoilers, (who cares?) as the Last Castoff you bear the last face your father wore, obviously, but it DOES NOT SHOW A NEW ONE And THAT could've been an amazing theme and set-up for the rest of the game.

But no. It's thrown in into an oddity, at one of the hard gates of the game, like some left-over thought.

You know... looking back, the triangle puzzle in P:T looks and is so brilliant, I seriously doubt anyone in this team of developers had anything to do with it.



Can you guys call director Chris Avellone for him to come back?

CHRIS? CHRIS? HELLO? ARE YOU BUSY? Can you come dig us out of this cesspool of poop we are in? HELLO? PLEASE?


*sigh*


Let's move on shall we? (I know some of you wish this were already over, and I seriously appreciate and respect anyone still reading at this point)

4. Game Mechanics

When it comes to game mechanics we have to address the main appeal of this genre of videogames. It is interacting with the world around you through highly flexible text.
Is Numenera good in regards to that?

Yes.

It is actually one of the few steps forward that the game makes, where skill checks and the interaction of the world around is done organically and it is very immersive. I would like to congratulate any of the team members involved into making this amazing progress here. It is actually very fun to interact with the world around you, and unlike P:T not really being afraid of faliure.
It really is true. Sometimes faliure can be just as rewarding as success. The "must save" reflex gamers have is now put to test, and it's great.

Whoever made this work like this, I salute you.

However there is a flipside to this - the combat. *sigh*

Slow. Enemy + ally turns can take for ever. Allies can sometimes make the most baffling AI targeting choices (Malaise fight, Fist Castoff/Final Sorrow fight) resulting in unnecessary damage taken and complications. My first run I had ToEE flashbacks.


Hey guys...? Kevin? Did you play Temple of Elemental Evil? Did you like it?

If the answer is "yes", go get a head scan, brother.


Let's wade forward.

Character progression. It's brilliant. You feel rewarded apropriately for quests taken, events happening. Conversations/meres explored. Great.

Map design. Brilliant. Everything makes sense. Light sources. Where would people drink water from. Where would they be sleeping. Flawless.

UI. Horrible:

- another difference that you didn't notice, but your brain sure did: the lack of an attack button. Do you remember the choice to be a phychopath? To kill everyone in sight? Not there anymore. You can only battle in specific and contained scenarios.

We should call this Briancare. Thanks Brian for taking care of us.

- lack of party management: I can't move my party members around. I always have to recruit Rhin last, because I can't have a small child in front, so... logic -> window.

- lack of animated portraits. A game 20 years ago had animation in character portraits, but not one made in 2017. Okay.

-------- the horrible lack of narrative reason for the journal. Yet another reason why I think Kevin and/or Brian, and/or this whole team doesn't know why "I updated my journal" works. It's because Rob Paulsen tells us that maybe we should write stuff down in case we forget again.

Is there any such line in this game?

Who cares? Give us your money.

- The keybind for character opens up Last Castoff character screen regardless of whom you have selected. Like... this game was made for a console, or something...

- And now one of my favourite topics: FIELD OF VISION. A great source of comedy in this game is the cypher you're being given at 1 point "to see" the entire map. (sticha questline)

Why?

Our characters have field of vision that sees through walls. It's like they're flying above obstacles. Or it's like this game was programmed by 1st year students.

- lack of detailed portraits. Remember how nice it was to have pictures of your party members posing in their "hero shots"? Remember how it made you more immersed, stimulated your imagination and increased the overall flavour of the game?


Yeah? Well too bad. They're gone. $50 please.


- popping up inventory/ char screen/ journal DOES NOT pause the game. I don't know... it's like I'm forced to explain videogame elements to highschool students at this point.

- no snap-zoom from map to gameplay area on double click. Because this game is a console port. Right. Sorry. I forgot.

- no save marker/bar/notification on screen for autosaves. At this point even highschool students are baffled. Even Dark Souls 1, known as the worst console port of one of the best videogames ever made, HAD a bonfire light up on screen when it made a save.

- 0 control over summoned units. Balefire, Maw or any other. At this point, I feel like beating a dead horse pointing this out.

- fragmenting units of movement, but not fragmenting movement itself. You are limited to 2 moves only. If you need to go around an obstacle - tough luck. This makes Callistege, Matkina and a jack protagonist borderline OP because of their teleportation abilities. This is most obvious a problem during the Miel Avest crisis.

Ambience Relative to Story

This part is actually pretty good. And for one I have to give props to the artists that made that happen through nice looking loading screens and to Mark Morgan's music.

I would like to point out that Miel Avest feels like it should feel, a safe haven, a resting point. But more on music and sound later. I have a few gripes there too. But as far as this goes, the experience was/is immersive.

Item Progression: It's a joke.

- nanos don't get a proper weapon until act 3. Why? Who knows.

- heavy weapons dependant on speed for glaives that focus on speed, or jacks - are an afterthought that we discover in act 4.

- bizzare choice letting the Bloom Armour be affected by the healing skill, making it by far the most over-powered item in the game -> the Bradishes a Silver Tongue focus becoming obsolete. Nanos will take the skill that will let them wear the armour with no penalties. Same with Jacks. Glaives can wear it automatically.

- bizzare choice giving Aligern "Medium Weapons", but giving none in the game that would scale with INT. You wanted us to give him edges in STR? Even more bizzare.

Action and Reaction with the Enviroment

This is the most amazing part of the game, in my opinion. The game, as in characters and quests, does react to your choices, represented by the Tides. Quests can also be influenced by time as well. It is a very well thought game, structurally speaking. The quest trees and the dialogue that accompany them are a showmanship of brilliance, skill, patience and overall desire to surpass Planescape: Torment.


Colin... ? Is this your work? Are the writers to blame for this part? If yes, then congratulations. It's one of the few things dragging this game forward. My respect to you.


PC Relations with Protagonist

While it's nice to look at the past with nostalgia rosey-eyed glasses, P:T didn't have that nailed down much either. I had expected a bit of a progress though. Oh well... I guess that's fine.

5. ("oh god he made just 5 points so far, I want to die" - is that what you thought? Yeah, I feel the same way) Characters

First off I would just like to say that is perhaps beyond me to criticise any work that Colin McComb wrote down. The writing itself in the game is beyond solid. I had immense pleasure of reading descriptions, dialogue and everything in between. It was the first time in a long time I actually hard the pleasure of seeing the word susurrus in a videogame, as well as me being forced to get a dictionary out because of a new word.

As such my critique of the characters, and later, of the script will be very short, and highly subjective. I imagine that any replies to this post that I will get as counters will be because of this part.

a) Aligern

- cardboard filler character. Nothing he was was relatable.

b) Callistege

- I would find her a long more interesting If I knew more about her background. Her backstory is really really thin. I mean, the pursuit of knowledge is great, but... shallow without a backstory.

c) Erritis

- tremendous amounts of fun, (real fun, the memorable kind :D ) encompassed into a tragic tale. Great character. Great story.

d) Matkina

- the thief with the heart of gold. She reminds us why Annah-of-the-Shadows is memorable. My second favourite character. Would bring along every playthrough.

e) Tybir

- who's he again? I forgot...

f) Rhin

- perhaps the best character in the game, and obviously my favourite. The most relatable. The most fun to have. The most memorable. Perhaps the best arc in the game too.


"my bread and hearth are yours to use"

^__^

[The Mask]

And now: THE SCRIPT

It would be a titanic effort to completely and accurately judge how good the script actually is in its entirety. I assume this is the reason why so many critics gave such glorious reviews to this game. It is a very complex and well written script, and I cannot and will not venture out so far as to nitpick it (as it may seem I have done so far with everything else).

I will discuss one thing that I thought was weak (and I say "weak" very very carefully here) which is the overall premise.

Planescape: Torment had to deal with many abstract ideas. Life. Death. Circle of life. Torment. Regret. Change. Love. Survival. And many more.

Torment: Tides of Numenera is a step back, by fleshing out an actual physical thing to create tension.

P:T had an unseen "villain" all the way until the very last act. T:ToN shows its villain at the end of the 2nd act (showing that the director loves his art too much).

P:T "villain" turns out to be just an entity trying to ensure its own survival. T:ToN villain turns out to be a borderline mindless guardian.

I'm really sorry Collin, you are a brilliant man with a brilliant mind, and I respect you and your work deeply (as well as all the other writers), but I'm sure you can see the difference(s). I'm very sorry I have to point them out, but it's the truth... :(

I also mentioned hints of brilliance earlier - the second one is here: there's an apothecary in the Bloom that refuses to treat you because of you being a Castoff. Brilliant! World building! I loved it!

Another thing... and beside the diversity of the companions, which I'm sure it was pointed out in other reviews... what happened to LOVE. This game is so damned sterile. Where's the sex? Where's the hot scene where I kiss an amazingly looking half-demon, and her skin almost bursts into flame?

What happened? Did we forget romance?

How about the gay guy? Can he get something going?

How about about the old woman that teleports around? Is she a lesbian? Can she get something going? Or maybe adult Rhin?

GIVE US SOMETHING, KEVIN! WE WANT SEX!

*sigh*


6. ("oh god is he done yet?") Sound

Mark Morgan. I mean. He's a legend. You can't go wrong with his music.

We have music for loading screens now - that's nice.

We don't have scores for each individual character as we converse with them. I'm sure that was also Kevin or Brian, because I'm absolutely positive when I say that I'm sure Mark Morgan CAN compose music for each companion.

I also found very distracting that Lani Minella was the voice of Callistege. I kept having Skyrim flashbacks.

Also... what happened to Jennifer Hale? No money to get her 1 weekend to do a small voice over for 1 character maybe? I miss Jennifer Hale... *dreamy eyes*


If you stuck and read this far, you have my appreciation and respect. In your shoes, I would've lost interest like 15 minutes ago. As thanks... here's a list of annoying things/bugs I found:

- autochtons don't change lines if you make it night time in Circus Minor

- Solaire (Dark Souls) mutant guy doesn't stop praising the sun if the sun goes out in Circus Minor

- sticha lair and CG sanctum options when you talk to sticha leader, lead ( haha obvious pun) to the same place

- door noise when entering Dendra O'Hur, although no door is to be seen

- if you fight Ris, there's no time to loot his body because the captain doesn't let you

- adult Rhin stats are an insult to perfectionists who'd want perfectly even stats for maximum efficiency

- entering to talk to the Memovira for the first time - guard dialog box is can't be seen fully (although I suspect that might be my own screen resolution)

- Efimpi is shoehorned in at the last second to make some torment related sentences, and give the general audience a sense of "oh... I remember... this game is based of a good game".



In conclusion: Torment: Tides of Numenera is a decent game on its own... but complete poop compared to the original. If it wasn't for the writing... we'd be right there with Dak'kon before the Proclamation of the Two Skies. And I can't believe many of my peers (kids that grew up in the 90's) think this is a good game.

[The Mask]

Original post on the oficial T:ToN forums, in a much better format.

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=17617

[Noxion]

So story and writing: win, Mechanics: fail

basically what i got from your review. What i expected, should be fun to play!

[The Mask]

OMG! Someone actually read it?!?

Yes. That is exactly my point! :D

[Noxion]

Origineel geplaatst door The Mask:

OMG! Someone actually read it?!?

Yes. That is exactly my point! :D

Yeah, it was an enjoyable read! thanks, this pretty much tipped the scales for me to buy it.

[xPepi]

I read your entire 2 posts and was immersed all the way through...can't say the same for TToN...haven't finished it yet...

Now go read my post "Why am I playing this game"

:)

[The Mask]

Origineel geplaatst door xPepi:

I read your entire 2 posts and was immersed all the way through...can't say the same for TToN...haven't finished it yet...

Now go read my post "Why am I playing this game"

:)

Sure thing, good sir! :D

[Dorok]

Perhaps you should do yourself games? Sigh.

I don't share you love of PS:T and it's an absurdity to require a clone, PS:T has ton of flaws and I can easily destroy it largely. No I couldn't read all, too long I admit, still I don't want dev or anybody give too much importance to your crap.

EDIT: And frankly target people and mix sort of review with sort of insults, that's very kiddish, and very boring but for yourself. IT destroy a lot any arguing you perhaps build, or not.

[Severian]

Nice review. I haven't finished the game myself, but what I got from the day or so I put into it so far pretty much seems to mirror your own observations. I remember putting the game down thinking "if you guys hate video games so much, why don't you just stick to writing novellas and novels?" because of all the obvious issues with TToN.
As a result though, I have been doing just that, and it's been a blast. So... it all worked out in the end... something like that.

[Dorok]

Origineel geplaatst door sewi:

Nice review.

Collection of insults to some people? Lol, and facepalm.

[Severian]

Origineel geplaatst door Dorok:

Perhaps you should do yourself games? Sigh.

I don't share you love of PS:T and it's an absurdity to require a clone, PS:T has ton of flaws and I can easily destroy it largely. No I couldn't read all, too long I admit, still I don't want dev or anybody give too much importance to your crap.

Huzzah, fanboy to the rescue!

And since I started with a quote, let me finish with one as well -

"People. What a bunch of bastards."
- Roy

[Dorok]

Sure go lie and pretend you read the OP, sigh, I can't believe.

[Severian]

Origineel geplaatst door Dorok:

Origineel geplaatst door sewi:

Nice review.

Collection of insults to some people? Lol, and facepalm.

You seem to suffer under some severe delusions of what constitutes an insult and what doesn't. :) But have fun riding through your fluffy dream world oh knight in shining armor.

[Dorok]

Origineel geplaatst door sewi:

Origineel geplaatst door Dorok:

Collection of insults to some people? Lol, and facepalm.

You seem to suffer under some severe delusions of what constitutes an insult and what doesn't. :) But have fun riding through your fluffy dream world oh knight in shining armor.

If you had read OP you wouldn't wrote it's a nice review, it's a huge emmotive garbage with someone that feel important so he targets people he thinks important, ridiculous, crap review.

EDIT:
Seriously read the crap, this will avoid you wrote stupidities.

[Severian]

Origineel geplaatst door Dorok:

Origineel geplaatst door sewi:

You seem to suffer under some severe delusions of what constitutes an insult and what doesn't. :) But have fun riding through your fluffy dream world oh knight in shining armor.

If you had read OP you wouldn't wrote it's a nice review, it's a huge emmotive garbage with someone that feel important so he targets people he thinks important, ridiculous, crap review.

EDIT:
Seriously read the crap, this will avoid you wrote stupidities.

At the risk of blowing your mind - I did read the OP. I also read books that are like.... twice as long as that, some of them even longer. And still I disagree with you.
Mind = blown?