Unsolved Mysteries, Wild Theories, Loose Ends, & Apophenia Run Amok [SPOILERS]

[Athanais]

Hello all -- seeing as how there's a lot of speculation regarding some elements of the cases, the ending, and the entire game throughout, I figured I'd start a thread where we can theorize to our heart's content, and point out cool Easter eggs that we think others perhaps haven't noticed or seen yet. Unsurprisingly, massive spoilers to follow, and any and all theories I make will assume that readers have already completed the game.

"Constriction"
Echo Secunda screams "PROM, NAPOL, PROM" as he strangles the nurse. Using the translation notes from the first game's "Lemurian Vampire" DLC, we discover that PROM means STOP, and APOL means MIND. Plus, the word for "SELF" starts with an N. Is this Oriel exerting some free will, asking Echo to "STOP, MY MIND, STOP"? Or is it Echo screaming at Oriel to recede into his subconscious, forever? Hard to say.

"Newsflash"
Jack's already begun to put his plan into motion; when he assures Elizabeth that Isaac's "genius will live on forever," this is actually ominous foreshadowing. We just don't know it, yet.

"Garden Retreat"
The radio playing next to Tesa actually gives away almost the whole scenario, in an extremely cryptic, roundabout way -- it talks of a rug being pulled, and falling down the charts. "Oof!"

Much of the way the accident went down mirrors the original murder of Oberon Geller by Albert Cloudsley, in the first game. The motives are somewhat different, but a sort of airheaded buffoon ends up killing their much cleverer counterpart by dropping them from a great height. The rock formation in Tesa's sand garden doesn't look THAT different from a map of Monkey Paw Island, come to think of it...

"Behind Bars"
"Steven Aria" is an anagram of Tesa Nevari.

~ Theories & Wild Speculation ~

Is Echo Secunda related to Dhustan Lok?
Is the "wily wolf" folktale referring to Echo Secunda? Seems like there's some overlap between his fragmented memories and the story.
Is Arthav's speildance referring to something other than a metaphor for fools in power? After all, Arthur Blythe steals literal keys in one case.
What's with the proverb inscribed on the automaton's lips, in "Ancient Artifacts"?
Is it a coincidence that the Dhustan Lok statue's head resembles one of Arthur's abstract wire sculptures? The game even goes out of its way to call both of them "abstract," doesn't feel like an accident.
Could Echo have been messing with memories? After all, the Ock drawing in "Ancient Artifacts" points out that Ock is only ever used to explain grave sins, so using memories to overwrite a consciousness was considered an extremely heavy crime.
Any significance to the triangle on the mentor's head, in "Protest Movement"?

[Dragonzfear]

I also thought the same with Arthur's sculptures looking similar to some of the stuff in the museum. The heavy focus on his sculptures that was never actually used in his puzzle hasn't sat well with me.

[witcher61]

I thought the dance was supposed to be talking about either about sth from Ancient Lemurian times (since he got those memories from a disk), or, alternatively, about the evil fools at OPIG who "steal keys" (knowledge) for their own, petty ends.

And with the Ock story in the museum, I understood it to be just a wrong interpretation by modern historians, who wouldn't even believe such a thing as the Idol could exist, similarly to how they secularize the story of Lazarus Herst.

[Athanais]

Originally posted by Dragonzfear:

I also thought the same with Arthur's sculptures looking similar to some of the stuff in the museum. The heavy focus on his sculptures that was never actually used in his puzzle hasn't sat well with me.

Same! Feels like there's something else there that I'm just not seeing.

Originally posted by witcher61:

I thought the dance was supposed to be talking about either about sth from Ancient Lemurian times (since he got those memories from a disk), or, alternatively, about the evil fools at OPIG who "steal keys" (knowledge) for their own, petty ends.

And with the Ock story in the museum, I understood it to be just a wrong interpretation by modern historians, who wouldn't even believe such a thing as the Idol could exist, similarly to how they secularize the story of Lazarus Herst.

Yeah, I understand the basic, surface level of the metaphor. I'm just wondering if there's another meaning somewhere -- after all, it seems odd to devote an entire case's worth of attention to this, only for it to be a cautionary idiom about the dangers of progress (which, by that point in the story, we already see is happening).

Your point about the Ock story is definitely valid. I might just be looking for meaning that isn't there, but I can't help but feel as though there are clues (somewhere) that illuminate what was going on with Echo Secunda in ancient Lemuria, and I was hoping this was one of them. Could very well all be in my head, though.

[Mechalibur]

Originally posted by Athanais:

"Garden Retreat"
Much of the way the accident went down mirrors the original murder of Oberon Geller by Albert Cloudsley, in the first game. The motives are somewhat different, but a sort of airheaded buffoon ends up killing their much cleverer counterpart by dropping them from a great height. The rock formation in Tesa's sand garden doesn't look THAT different from a map of Monkey Paw Island, come to think of it...

From my perspective, I don't really see Tesa as an Albert Cloudsley type. While she's certainly deluded herself into thinking her view of the universe must be correct, she's also shown to be a devious and competent schemer. The prison break was instigated by her, she planned out the artifact heist, and she also organized the attack against the IDOL in the final case. Arthur, while certainly clever in his own right, seemed to be the muscle of the duo.

It is a bit of a shame we don't see more of Arthur, but it was his greed that ultimately did him in.

[Athanais]

Originally posted by Mechalibur:

Originally posted by Athanais:

"Garden Retreat"
Much of the way the accident went down mirrors the original murder of Oberon Geller by Albert Cloudsley, in the first game. The motives are somewhat different, but a sort of airheaded buffoon ends up killing their much cleverer counterpart by dropping them from a great height. The rock formation in Tesa's sand garden doesn't look THAT different from a map of Monkey Paw Island, come to think of it...

From my perspective, I don't really see Tesa as an Albert Cloudsley type. While she's certainly deluded herself into thinking her view of the universe must be correct, she's also shown to be a devious and competent schemer. The prison break was instigated by her, she planned out the artifact heist, and she also organized the attack against the IDOL in the final case. Arthur, while certainly clever in his own right, seemed to be the muscle of the duo.

It is a bit of a shame we don't see more of Arthur, but it was his greed that ultimately did him in.

Yeah, calling her an Albert is probably a stretch, as Albert really was a ditz and Tesa has more going on, as evidenced by her various schemes. I really just wanted my parallel to fit, ha ha.

Another fun Easter egg: her alias in "Behind Bars" (Steven Aria) is actually an anagram of Tesa Nevari.

[Mechalibur]

Oh, nice catch, I didn't notice that!

[Perogi]

In The Procedure, the comet is supposed to help you figure out that two of the aspirants are related. The picture Tesa has says it happened in 1950, the picture the woman has of the TV shows that it's her uncle's 50th birthday and that the comet broadcast was live, meaning her uncle turned 50 in 1950. The photo the cousin has lists his father as living from 1900-1975 and being born on the same month/day as on Tesa's picture, giving strong evidence the two of them are related.

As for the symbol on the guru's head, in the first game the triangle is one of the seals of the clans of Lemuria in the scenario where the parliament guy is killed. Also in the DLC we learn those same seals can be represented as numbers, with the triangle being three. That said, triangles are a common symbol so it could just be a triangle... Bit of an aside but it's strongly implied that the seals are actually data disks, so I wonder if each clan used to add their memories to the disks to preserve their history, or perhaps each clan added their founder's consciousness to the disks.

I wonder about Echo as well. I think a lot of the stuff about his past and the myths of Lemuria are meant for the DLC, but what I'm curious about is what happened between Echo witnessing the events of the final scenario on the motorbike, and him ending up in the asylum. This tells us that the first scenario in the asylum is actually the last to chronologically happen. I looked in the first scenario and there's no mention of dates or anything, who knows how much time elapsed between the last and first scenarios...

As for the Speildance, I think the dance is just a traditional ancient Lemurian one, it might refer to a specific event in Lemurian history or just be a general warning taught to everyone. If you look at his bracelet, Arthav only received a month of memories from the disk, he likely didn't have enough context to make comment on OPIG or even Lemurian history, there's a good chance he didn't even know what the dance meant and that the month of memories was just memories of practicing the dance. Who knows though. I think that scenario was to show us that some disks had ancient knowledge, and as an excuse to do a really cool decode-the-dance thing, this was probably my favorite scenario.

[Ser Pounce]

Originally posted by Perogi:

I wonder about Echo as well. I think a lot of the stuff about his past and the myths of Lemuria are meant for the DLC, but what I'm curious about is what happened between Echo witnessing the events of the final scenario on the motorbike, and him ending up in the asylum. This tells us that the first scenario in the asylum is actually the last to chronologically happen. I looked in the first scenario and there's no mention of dates or anything, who knows how much time elapsed between the last and first scenarios...

In Constriction, Morg Brakka's patient list says June 1977, so Echo got caught quickly after escaping the museum on 4th June in Ancient Artifacts, but then fled the asylum the same month and is free at the end of the game

[Perogi]

Originally posted by Ser Pounce:

Originally posted by Perogi:

I wonder about Echo as well. I think a lot of the stuff about his past and the myths of Lemuria are meant for the DLC, but what I'm curious about is what happened between Echo witnessing the events of the final scenario on the motorbike, and him ending up in the asylum. This tells us that the first scenario in the asylum is actually the last to chronologically happen. I looked in the first scenario and there's no mention of dates or anything, who knows how much time elapsed between the last and first scenarios...

In Constriction, Morg Brakka's patient list says June 1977, so Echo got caught quickly after escaping the museum on 4th June in Ancient Artifacts, but then fled the asylum the same month and is free at the end of the game

Oh that does actually make more sense. Echo must have been disoriented at first and ended up in an insane asylum. Him riding a motorbike shows that he must have acclimated quite a bit and likely happened after he escaped.

[Ser Pounce]

From the scene, I would also guess that "PROM, NAPOL, PROM!" could simply mean "STOP HITTING ME!".

[Username1511]

did anyone else notice that the idol looks different in this game? could it be that there are multiple idols or it was rebuild in the time between both games?

[Perogi]

Originally posted by Username1511:

did anyone else notice that the idol looks different in this game? could it be that there are multiple idols or it was rebuild in the time between both games?

I think it's the same. The idol at the end of the first game was broken and bought for scrap. Tesa was collecting all the pieces and reassembled them as best she could. The reassembled artifact was technically functional but she was just using it wrong. In the lab, Jack figured out that most of the pieces of the idol were actually just structural and were completely unnecessary for the operation of the idol. The only parts required for the idol to work are the control symbols, the crystal, and the weird cylinder piece with sticks coming out of it. Lenses optional. This explains why Tesa's idol was functional even though it was appeared different, most of the pieces of the idol are just structural and the outer housing doesn't matter.

This also explains how Jack was able to move the IDOL back and forth between the warehouse and the lab. Rather than moving the entire machine, he would just remove the functional pieces from the large housing and transport those to a separate housing at the warehouse.

[Athanais]

Originally posted by Perogi:

In The Procedure, the comet is supposed to help you figure out that two of the aspirants are related. The picture Tesa has says it happened in 1950, the picture the woman has of the TV shows that it's her uncle's 50th birthday and that the comet broadcast was live, meaning her uncle turned 50 in 1950. The photo the cousin has lists his father as living from 1900-1975 and being born on the same month/day as on Tesa's picture, giving strong evidence the two of them are related.

As for the symbol on the guru's head, in the first game the triangle is one of the seals of the clans of Lemuria in the scenario where the parliament guy is killed. Also in the DLC we learn those same seals can be represented as numbers, with the triangle being three. That said, triangles are a common symbol so it could just be a triangle... Bit of an aside but it's strongly implied that the seals are actually data disks, so I wonder if each clan used to add their memories to the disks to preserve their history, or perhaps each clan added their founder's consciousness to the disks.

I wonder about Echo as well. I think a lot of the stuff about his past and the myths of Lemuria are meant for the DLC, but what I'm curious about is what happened between Echo witnessing the events of the final scenario on the motorbike, and him ending up in the asylum. This tells us that the first scenario in the asylum is actually the last to chronologically happen. I looked in the first scenario and there's no mention of dates or anything, who knows how much time elapsed between the last and first scenarios...

As for the Speildance, I think the dance is just a traditional ancient Lemurian one, it might refer to a specific event in Lemurian history or just be a general warning taught to everyone. If you look at his bracelet, Arthav only received a month of memories from the disk, he likely didn't have enough context to make comment on OPIG or even Lemurian history, there's a good chance he didn't even know what the dance meant and that the month of memories was just memories of practicing the dance. Who knows though. I think that scenario was to show us that some disks had ancient knowledge, and as an excuse to do a really cool decode-the-dance thing, this was probably my favorite scenario.

Good catch on the comet! That hadn't even occurred to me. I removed it from my list of mysteries.

Yeah, I don't think Arthav intended to impart some bigger meaning based on his own understanding. I just found it odd that it felt like it was supposed to be pointing to something bigger (like maybe there was a scene where Jack stole someone's keys) given the amount of focus, but it turns out to only be a commentary on the game's arc in general.

Originally posted by Username1511:

did anyone else notice that the idol looks different in this game? could it be that there are multiple idols or it was rebuild in the time between both games?

I think it was intended to be a completely distinct idol from the one in the first game. After all, we see Tesa purchase the original idol from the junk store, and then she shows up at the auction looking for the new statuette, so I think the original idol remained broken but this game's idol was a new one. As for the significance of showing her finding the old idol, it may have just been a way of showing the player that Tesa (through her research) is savvy to the fact that idols have powers.

[Perogi]

Originally posted by Athanais:

Yeah, I don't think Arthav intended to impart some bigger meaning based on his own understanding. I just found it odd that it felt like it was supposed to be pointing to something bigger (like maybe there was a scene where Jack stole someone's keys) given the amount of focus, but it turns out to only be a commentary on the game's arc in general.

I agree. It seems impossible that Arthav could have been commenting himself, but of all the messages the author chose for him to communicate, the message probably does relate to the overall story in a meta way.

[neetronica22]

Originally posted by Perogi:

Originally posted by Username1511:

did anyone else notice that the idol looks different in this game? could it be that there are multiple idols or it was rebuild in the time between both games?

I think it's the same. The idol at the end of the first game was broken and bought for scrap. Tesa was collecting all the pieces and reassembled them as best she could. The reassembled artifact was technically functional but she was just using it wrong. In the lab, Jack figured out that most of the pieces of the idol were actually just structural and were completely unnecessary for the operation of the idol. The only parts required for the idol to work are the control symbols, the crystal, and the weird cylinder piece with sticks coming out of it. Lenses optional. This explains why Tesa's idol was functional even though it was appeared different, most of the pieces of the idol are just structural and the outer housing doesn't matter.

This also explains how Jack was able to move the IDOL back and forth between the warehouse and the lab. Rather than moving the entire machine, he would just remove the functional pieces from the large housing and transport those to a separate housing at the warehouse.

Tesa's reconstructed idol was not functional since she just threw all parts into the new monkey statue without properly interconnecting them.