The Kuruma Issue

[War Crime Enjoyer]

Wait! Wait! Calm!

I myself own an armoured Kuruma. I also own a variety of powerful, military vehicle such as the Insurgent (both varietes) and the Savage attack chopper. Okay, ♥♥♥♥ me - I get that.

I am not proposing the removal or the continued stay of the Armoured Kuruma in its present state. Any opinions that I put forward in this thread are just that - opinions. With that little disclaimer out of the way, let's begin.

The Karin Kuruma (1) is unlocked through the Fleeca Job heist and costs around 625,000 GTA Dollars I believe. The figure is a rough estimate, so please don't hold me to this. The cost places it at the lower end of the High-Tier super cars and the mid-upper range of Luxury Motorsport cars. It is a sports class car with decent handling, acceleration, and top speed.
What seperates the Kuruma however is its armoured variant. The armoured variant enjoys an increased resistance to general wear and tear and bullets. However, where it shines is its reduced window size to prevent oncoming bullets from killing the driver. As a result this vehicle is regularly used in both PVP and PVE due to the difficulty of hitting the driver, coupled with the relative ease of hitting your opponent when inside the Kuruma.

Naturally, this does come with trade offs. The vehicle suffers from reduced firing angles which seem to worsen with additional passengers - in addition to this the offensive capabilities are further crippled as thrown items are unusable due to the small window slots. This limits the destructive capability of the Kuruma and makes the Kuruma vulnerable to those willing to use explosives against it.

In theory, this system is perfect. It trades offensive capability for defence capability and leaves an Achilies heel for opponents to exploit. Issues begin to arise however when we take a look at the systems that surround not only the Kuruma but player owned vehicles as a whole.

During PVE missions and other freeroam events the AI seldom (if ever) utilises explosives - the achilies heel of the Kuruma, meaning that against our AI counterparts they're left with little hope to kill the player.

PVP is where most of the controversy arises however. The speed and acceleration of the Kuruma makes a hard target for many to begin with - couple this with a decreased firing window the only solution for most players seems to be the use of explosives. Understandly, the Kuruma cannot retaliate with explosives which would suggest that the vehicle is different, albeit balanced. This would be true if it were not for the 'Insurance' and 'Bad Sport' systems which plague the game. The insurance system is a money sink and an effective one at that. Up to about 17,000 can be taken from ones account for the destruction of another players vehicle, coupled with the cost of the explosives invovled in destroying said vehicle. The cost of the Kuruma to the aggressor is just short of 7000, plus expect another 7000 after a brief mechanic call in. To effectively put down a player in Kuruma harassing you, expect around 14000 upfront followed up by approximately 7000 every five minutes.

I've long since believed that the Kuruma is in theory a balanced vehicle, but made unbalanced by a poorly designed insurance system.

On the other hard the Kuruma's big, military grade brother the Insurgent should be a greater threat. Afterall, its marked on the map as a dangerous vehicle. It can take a huge amount of damage, a fully upgraded Insurgent can force its way through road blocks almost half a dozen cars thick in a matter of seconds, and an vehicle unfortunate enough to be on the ramming side of this thing will pay the price. Should anyone drop enough explosives on this monstrosity of a vehicle to blow it apart, they're faced with insurance costs of about 17000 plus the somewhat tremendous cost of the explosives involved. If we say that 5 stickybombs are used, then if memory serves that's approximately another 3000 assuming all hit the vehicle. In total, you're looking at about 20000 to blow this vehicle apart... all to see it back again in a minute or so.

So what makes this beast of a vehicle any better?

The strength of the Insurgent is the inverse of a Kuruma. Where the Kuruma was designed to keep one safe from bullets but render one weak to explosives, the Insurgent was designed to keep one safe from explosives but weak to bullets. As such, getting shot in the Insurgent isn't really a rare occurence, if anything, the somewhat large side windows and obnoxiously large front windscreen are like barn doors for any decent (or even poor) marksman looking to remove an insurgent from the map.
How much does it cost to exploit the Insurgent's weakness? A single, well placed sniper round. No more than 10 dollars, really.

So how do we fix this insurance protected Kuruma issue? Simple, drop the insurance costs dramatically, or weaken the Kuruma dramatically. The Kuruma needs substantially lower insurance costs and removal of the bad sport warning for players blowing it apart. Similarly, if we want to keep this money sink, the Kuruma does need nerfing. Perhaps no tinted windows to allow people to have a better clue of what exactly they're shooting at, or slightly larger window slots, or just greatly decreased firing angles for the driver.

Who knows, I'm not a developer, I'm just a concerned player.

[BloodShotN8]

Escrito originalmente por ┼God┼ ♪Lobster♪:

Escrito originalmente por Blast:

I see what you mean regarding the insurance costs. At the same time though I suppose you can say if you don't want to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with then you simply put your hands up and say "passive mode it is." Although you could argue the inverse if you don't want to be killed by the Kuruma, I suppose.

I've been killed in passive mode by an armored kurama before, the guy jumped out of the vehicle and I got ran over by it because nobody was driving it.

I've also had players land helicopters on me after jumping with a parachute, though I give the player props for doing this.. It isn't as easy as jumping out of a moving car, and hitting the passive player.

It's also quite amusing to see a chopper land on you explode and kill you from out of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nowhere...

and again i apologize for this... its just so fun pushing cars over ppl.. lol

[The peasant]

pff insurgent master race..... karuma aint a match for the mighty insurgent i Just flip the car over and bomb the shi out of it

[BING]

Escrito originalmente por ┼God┼ ♪Lobster♪:

Escrito originalmente por Rambo First Blunt:

I read it. TBH i own one, and don't drive it anymore after the wrap associated with it. If i could get my money back i would choose that option, but now it just stays in my garage. Reducing the Insurance cost, is a bad idea. I would love to be able to drive my car around without being ♥♥♥♥♥♥ with for once.

I have too much pent up rage agaisn't armored Kuramas to let you do that, I'm going to throw sticky bombs on your car and blow you the ♥♥♥♥ up.

I realize you don't shoot at people, but I'm not going to wait for an amored kurama player to shoot at me to figure out if they are friendly or not....



Armored Kuramas are mainly used to troll lowbies, who don't have access to sticky bombs.

im the guy in the akuma who leaves present for newbies :D (ka, boom)

[Lucy Fur]

replace armoured kuruma with armoured panto, problem solved?

[Gandorques Hikla]

Escrito originalmente por Flamin Jesus:

Escrito originalmente por Gandorques Hikla:

Im not ignoring this issue.
But if I use a armored car for a joyride, I have to expect to be a target.
Thats a kind of fair deal for being bulletproof.

I'm unconvinced, right now the only relatively certain way to be safe from Kuruma trolling is.... to drive around in a Kuruma (Well, aside from passive mode, but I don't want to drive around in passive ALL the time). Your proposal would mean that the only effective deterrent would suddenly become a liability. You're shifting the problem from kids driving around in Kurumas but leaving other Kuruma drivers alone to kids driving around in Kurumas, specifically targeting other Kuruma drivers and killing anyone else like before.

The amount of Kuruma abusers will go down if they have to pay their own insurance fees.
So it becomes safer to drive around in a normal car again, or at least, as dangerous as it was before the heist update.
So if your only reason to cruise around in a Kuruma is safety against Kurumabuse, this issue kind of evens out itself.

[Catto]

Escrito originalmente por Gandorques Hikla:

Escrito originalmente por Flamin Jesus:

I'm unconvinced, right now the only relatively certain way to be safe from Kuruma trolling is.... to drive around in a Kuruma (Well, aside from passive mode, but I don't want to drive around in passive ALL the time). Your proposal would mean that the only effective deterrent would suddenly become a liability. You're shifting the problem from kids driving around in Kurumas but leaving other Kuruma drivers alone to kids driving around in Kurumas, specifically targeting other Kuruma drivers and killing anyone else like before.

The amount of Kuruma abusers will go down if they have to pay their own insurance fees.
So it becomes safer to drive around in a normal car again, or at least, as dangerous as it was before the heist update.
So if your only reason to cruise around in a Kuruma is safety against Kurumabuse, this issue kind of evens out itself.

Jerks will be jerks, no matter if they have a kuruma or any other non-armored vehicle. I have never used my Kuruma, Savage or Hydra for a single PvP kill myself. But people have went to town on me while I was in those vehicles (and aircraft), repeatedly RPGing/shooting me out of the sky while all I was doing was ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up a gang with them. So all in all, jerks will always be jerks even if the Kuruma gets nerfed.

EDIT: next thing you know people will be asking for valkyrie to be nerfed because with 4 players, that thing can wreak absolute havok in PvP or PvE, like nothing else in game. It's not the vehicles that need to be fixed. People need to stop being ♥♥♥♥♥. But it's not like that's gonna happen anytime soon.

[Gandorques Hikla]

Escrito originalmente por Scarlet:

Escrito originalmente por Gandorques Hikla:

The amount of Kuruma abusers will go down if they have to pay their own insurance fees.
So it becomes safer to drive around in a normal car again, or at least, as dangerous as it was before the heist update.
So if your only reason to cruise around in a Kuruma is safety against Kurumabuse, this issue kind of evens out itself.

[...]

EDIT: next thing you know people will be asking for valkyrie to be nerfed because with 4 players, that thing can wreak absolute havok in PvP or PvE, like nothing else in game. It's not the vehicles that need to be fixed. People need to stop being ♥♥♥♥♥. But it's not like that's gonna happen anytime soon.

Its not like you can easily afford a valkyrie, or have it at hand everytime you need it.
To get a new one you have to drive to a airport.
A normal car can be ordered at almost any time, and if it gets destroyed, you have it back near you with 2 phone calls.
So I´m fine with dealing with the Warstock vehicles from time to time. Nothing a few rockets cant solve if they harass me.

[Dealman]

All of you are missing the point, though.

Yes, jerks will still try to be jerks. But the issue at hand is that before the Kuruma was released, it was very possible to retaliate. Shooting people out of cars is not that hard at all - until the release of the Kuruma.

Back then, freeroam PvP was actually fun and encouraging. Now it's just full of armoured Kurumas, most of which will shoot you on sight - and if you kill them once, they'll keep hunting you for all eternity.

The Kuruma is nothing other than a vehicle solely to be used for griefing and making heists far too easy.

I think Rockstar needs to re-consider that car a fair bit; either reduce the armoured window size, limit their ability to shoot significantly more.

It's a really fast car, especially for being that armoured. Not to mention it's cheaper than the Intruder, while also being infinitely better than the Intruder - even the .50 cal one.

I really fail to understand how this is even the slightest disputable... :/

[War Crime Enjoyer]

Escrito originalmente por Dealman:

All of you are missing the point, though.

Yes, jerks will still try to be jerks. But the issue at hand is that before the Kuruma was released, it was very possible to retaliate. Shooting people out of cars is not that hard at all - until the release of the Kuruma.

Back then, freeroam PvP was actually fun and encouraging. Now it's just full of armoured Kurumas, most of which will shoot you on sight - and if you kill them once, they'll keep hunting you for all eternity.

The Kuruma is nothing other than a vehicle solely to be used for griefing and making heists far too easy.

I think Rockstar needs to re-consider that car a fair bit; either reduce the armoured window size, limit their ability to shoot significantly more.

It's a really fast car, especially for being that armoured. Not to mention it's cheaper than the Intruder, while also being infinitely better than the Intruder - even the .50 cal one.

I really fail to understand how this is even the slightest disputable... :/

The same people who call people 'whiners' and get aggressive and claim no change is needed are overwhelmingly the people who use it. I have it, I've used it. All I can say is that it needs changing, at least in PVP circumstances if not in heists. People don't like their toys getting taken away though.

[Flamin Jesus]

Escrito originalmente por Gandorques Hikla:

So if your only reason to cruise around in a Kuruma is safety against Kurumabuse, this issue kind of evens out itself.

But that's not the only reason, the other reason is safety against jackasses on foot or in other cars, who have never managed to kill me with small arms fire in one (and if they try they get a swift kick in the nuts), and who at least have to pay insurance if they blow me up.

I don't always want to have to be on constant alert just to avoid being killed randomly, and I don't always want to be stuck in passive mode, I like having the option of going out in a normal car if I feel like risking a shootout, but I also like the option to be relatively safe without retreating completely from the game. Personally, for me, the benefit of the Kuruma as a defensive option outweighs its abuse as an offensive option, because for me, there is little difference between what car someone uses to attack me out of nowhere, if I don't expect it or don't see it coming I'm gonna die no matter what they're driving, and if I do I'm most likely going to survive no matter what they're driving.

Edit: And since, at least after this post, someone is inevitably going to stumble across the following gem of insight: Yes, I'm a terrible, terrible player and I need to "lern to paly", can we move on?

[Kue8all]

I think a way to combat Karuma etc trolls is that when the mental state of a player goes up to a certain point, they don't get any insurance cover on any vehicle until they calm down.

[Flamin Jesus]

Escrito originalmente por Whistler:

I think a way to combat Karuma etc trolls is that when the mental state of a player goes up to a certain point, they don't get any insurance cover on any vehicle until they calm down.

THAT seems more reasonable, leave the innocent Kuruma drivers alone, rocket launch away at the psychos no matter what they drive!

[KookiePoo]

Kuruma is the only consolation in a game with grinds akin to Korean MMO's that are notoriously tedious and arduous challenges in order to unlock mods and the exorbitant car prices, up yours and your stinking shark cards GTA CEO/Dev mofos !

[Mosibfu]

the bad sport mechanic does not simply affect killing kuruma's, i have shot at players that tried to stickybomb me, hitting THEIR stickybomb, and ending up paying for their insurance because they blow up.

My workaround is, place a 1k bounty on said kuruma driver, then blow up their car, no bad sport, and they end up paying for their own insurance (and i get 1k of the 2k spent back).

I do drive my kuruma in free roam, for gang attacks, and robbing stores (just cant find that 20th damn store)... when people start shooting at me, i shoot back. I tend not to pick fights without reason, either getting shot at, or seeing someone with a bounty. However, that much can not be said for most kuruma drivers.

I myself do pick fights with other kuruma drivers, especially the ones that go on random killing sprees, hitting them on the part where the door meets front window usually ends up in kills, on foot, a shotgun is very effective since most kuruma drivers are over-confident.

Learning these angles, and just shooting them out of their car is quite rewarding, get a friend with a kuruma and try and find/learn these angles, its easy since your crosshair thing will turn red.

If you have a kuruma, take the time to educate people on its weaknesses, and strengths.
for example, the windows themselves, are quite bulletproof. (unlike OP stated)

I dare to say the insurgent is a more dangerous vehicle, when used properly, it is near impossible to blow up, and the back has nearly no weaknesses, a smart driver does a 180 and then reverses towards you while shooting.

[War Crime Enjoyer]

Escrito originalmente por KookiePoo:

Kuruma is the only consolation in a game with grinds akin to Korean MMO's that are notoriously tedious and arduous challenges in order to unlock mods and the exorbitant car prices, up yours and your stinking shark cards GTA CEO/Dev mofos !

Except they're not, in PVP I'd argue these vehicles are just as much of a money sink as they are a cash creator.