Things to consider before GTA VI releases...

[Alex]

Greetings!

So! Grand Theft Auto VI. Everyone's been hyping about it pretty much right after Grand Theft Auto V came out, including YouTubers with their clickbait like Sernandoe and MrBossFTW. And I don't blame people for being excited. Rockstar Games has always been great at providing amazing and interesting experiences, and they have a large lineup of record-breaking games under their belt.

However, it seems like the last few years, the gaming market's outlook... hasn't been pretty, to say the least. More and more people are getting tired of scummy things. And part of the problem I feel as to why it's been going on for so long is the lack of real skepticism anymore. There's been more than plenty of games that have come out in the industry that are deliberately rushed, broken, unplayable, whatever the case may be (you ever notice by the way that no matter how buggy a game is at launch, the MTX shop is pristine on day one?), or are intentionally designed to be scummy and squeeze out as much money from people as possible. People are quick to complain about these issues, but are anything but hesitant to shell out cash on the very next title that comes out. And of course, we can't forget all of the fanboys and gaming veterans who will defend their favorite franchises no matter how bad it ever gets.

Whenever Modern Warfare III came out for example, I knew since the day it was announced that the outlook wasn't looking good on it. I knew it was going to be a rushed game or simply a game that just lacks real potential at the end of the day, when compared to the potential all the games that came before it had back in the glory days, especially on the seventh generation. When I explained my genuine reasons why I wasn't interested in purchasing the game, I was met with harsh criticism. I was sent so many harassments and death threats like you wouldn't believe by Call of Duty players who loved the franchise so much that they defended terrible practices, simply for the sake of it being a new Call of Duty game. I mean, hell... look at Steam Discussions these days. There's always troll/bait posts and people who comment being jerks just for the sake of being jerks. We've all seen it of course. And I'm sure this post too will get plenty of negativity. But, I can at least say I tried, and that's good enough for me.

Anyways, I'm getting off-topic. My point is that with Grand Theft Auto VI, everyone's so hyped about it saying it's going to revolutionize the industry, but me personally, I don't think that'll be the case. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than aware of what Rockstar Games was capable of. But there's a lot of things to take into consideration, looking at past problems and the like. Before Grand Theft Auto VI comes out or becomes available for pre-order, I'd like for everyone to just at least consider some of my points before deciding whether or not to buy the game. It's easy to ignore flaws just because it's a new Grand Theft Auto, but sometimes companies need to start being held accountable, as just because you can ignore poor decisions, that ultimately doesn't mean it's right. If you're willing to listen to what I have to say, it might make a difference.

GTA Online is heavily monetized.

- Despite GTA still holding the world record with insane numbers of sales and making so much money, it's not enough and they keep finding more ways to milk the crap out of the playerbase.
- Shark cards to buy in-game money.
- Overpriced content and underpaid rewards to encourage people to buy said shark cards.

• They'll add a new car in the latest update, it could be the most generic and boring sedan imaginable, but because it's part of the latest update, it costs GTA$6,300,000 for no apparent reason.
  
• The Imponte Dukes was a base game vehicle in the game since launch. Later on, they added a Beater Dukes, which is a crappier, worn version of the vehicle. For some reason, this version costs more than the regular Dukes. Why?

- GTA+ Subscription

• This is unnecessary, they already had shark cards and were already making bank on the game, now they wanted players to pay them monthly too?
  
• The existing base game content and vehicles were locked off behind this new subscription, to incentivize players to subscribe.
  
• One of the "rewards" as a GTA+ subscriber is access to member-exclusive shark cards. Basically, "thanks for giving us money every month, as a reward, here's more ways for you to give us money".

We never got our GTA V singleplayer DLC

- And no, I'm not counting the Online DLC. They always implied since the beginning it was going to be for singleplayer. Online has continued parts of the storyline in numerous ways long before that update came out.

They keep pulling a Bethesda and rereleasing the same game numerous times so they can make more money, especially off of both new and returning Online players.

- "Why did I move here? I guess it was the weather."

Rockstar Games is owned by Take-Two Interactive, one of the scummiest corporations out there next to Embracer Group.

- Regardless of whether it's Rockstar's or Take-Two's fault for why things are terrible, at the end of the day, somebody's got to start taking responsibility for these actions eventually, and by buying stuff, my money goes to both of them anyways.

The GTA Trilogy: The Defective Edition

- Ugh... Jesus... you know, Rockstar easily could've properly remastered these games themselves, they certainly had the budget for it too, instead they outsourced it to a bunch of amateur developers.
- The remaster was half-assed by using AI upscaling on I'd say about 75% of existing textures, which led to a lot of texture issues and incorrect and/or illegible text, instead of giving the trilogy the TLC it properly needed by making stuff by hand.
- The studio behind the remaster was already infamous for their mobile and 360/PS3 ports of the trilogy.
- Despite porting to a new engine, they somehow brought over bugs from the mobile and 360/PS3 ports and didn't fix them.
- The game looked like utter crap and some features were part of the base Unreal Engine or Unreal Marketplace, such as the lighting or day-night cycle. With things like the map, they just threw it in the default LOD generator in Unreal and called it a day, making it look worse and blobby from a distance. Things like this which, when paired with my previous reason of using AI upscaling, shows how little they properly cared with remastering the series, regardless of who's truly at fault.
- The trailers were made to deceive people, showing as little of the game as possible so we couldn't see how bad it was until it was release.
- It got updated a couple times, but years later it STILL looks and plays like crap.
- The original trilogy was delisted, yet modders made the original trilogy look better than the Definitive Edition a long time ago, and they did it for free, long before the Definitive version came to fruition. Maybe they should've hired modders instead to make it, instead of a studio that already had a crappy track record.
- When the game came out, it relied on a connection to the Rockstar Games Social Club DRM. Due to some issues, the first few days people couldn't even obtain access to the game that they bought thanks to DRM.
- Take-Two Interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick claimed that "they don't just port games", and also claimed that if they're going to remaster a game, they'll do it with some TLC. Instead, what we got was something made to make a quick buck, because Take-Two/Rockstar is a cash cow.
- The game was so broken, unstable, and ugly at launch that it's actually amazing it managed to even remotely pass QA testing.

Red Dead Online was completely abandoned because they thought GTA Online was more profitable instead of giving RDO the love it deserved.

Most if not all of the original team of Rockstar left the studio once Red Dead Redemption 2 came out. The people who helped make the original Rockstar games so amazing in the first place aren't even working at Rockstar anymore.

- I don't think many people understand this. GTA VI is being made by completely different people, and there's no guarantee that they'll be able to carry on the HUGE and revolutionary legacy the original team had with previous games.


So yeah, people are going to say GTA VI will be the greatest game of all time, but I'm holding off on that. Rockstar may have made some great games in the past, but I've seen where they are now, and I've seen where they're heading. If they want my trust and respect, they need to earn it. If people buy/preorder GTA VI and it turns out to be a huge fluke, they'll have nobody to blame but themselves for being so quick to give in.

Even then, it's Take-Two. Not only do they already have a poor track record as it is, but look at what happened recently with KSP2 and the shutdown of Intercept games. I know there's a lot of stuff regarding Nick, the guy behind Intercept, but understand that regardless, Take-Two is still a huge company with huge yearly revenue, it's unacceptable for them to randomly close down studios to cut costs, especially when a game like KSP2 is on the line. They have no reason for this, Strauss Zelnick is so focused on profits he doesn't care how many developers have to go jobless, just like any other company. Not to mention his constant millions in bonus pay he's always receiving all the time.

I originally wasn't interested in GTA VI as it is, but after the recent stuff that's been going on, it's safe to say that Take-Two is now Definitively™ going on my blacklist. Screw 'em. Even if I ultimately had any interest in GTA VI, I'd rather find other means instead. I don't feel like giving T2 an ounce of my money and financially supporting terrible decisions that are primarily made by the investors and shareholders.

All I ask is that people consider these points before making a firm decision. If you want to harass me, go for it... but again, at least I can say I tried the reasonable route, and it's ultimately not my choice as to what you guys decide to do, but that doesn't mean I can't provide advice for the future. As someone who's a passionate gamer, it's really sad to see the AAA market fall off as badly as it has been. But if people don't start voting with our wallets, how can we ever expect any changes?

[pipe.surgeon]

Great post, OP.

I've said this already, and will say it again. At some point the community itself has to take off the rose colored lenses they've been wearing when it comes to this dev company. The community pretty much enables all the poor treatment they get. I've already made the decision that this was the first and final game I'd ever purchase from this company based on their track record of poor support, poor management, poor engagement, and zero accountability. Two years ago I solidified that decision by quitting the game and uninstalling it in 01/2022. That said, anything else they produce is nowhere close to being on my radar and probably never will it. It'll take miracle juice to make me rethink that decision, or if I can see they drastically changed their tune, and I'm not one to drink the KoolAid like most of the community has.

[Alex]

Originally posted by pipe.surgeon:

Great post, OP.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Apologies for it being so extensive, every time I ever form opinions on anything, I always go as in-depth as possible with my reasons. Some people consider that simply yapping or annoying, but the problem is that it's a multitude of factors and not just one or two.

I'm honestly surprised you agree with what I said, I'm so used to getting like 50 clown awards and harassment comments on my Steam profile for laying out genuine issues I've had with several games. The efforts people go through to defend scummy practices and franchises is heartbreaking, to say the least. I mean... come on... responding to me writing something thought-out and outlining exactly what my problems are, with "hurr durr you're stupid, this game is the best"? Like what does that add to the conversation? Nobody ever at least elaborates on their reasoning, they just say you're wrong and leave it at that, and they do it in the most immature way as possible.

But anyways, Ubisoft is a company I've got blacklisted as well. The last game I bought from them was The Crew, and we can see how well that turned out. I'm so tired of supporting scummy games. But I also miss the days when AAA actually meant something. Sure, there's always indies and spiritual successors, but sometimes having a new game from a well-known franchise was always something worth checking out. For example, you can make a game that's similar to Burnout, but at the end of the day, it's still not Burnout. But if I want a new Burnout game, I'd at least want it to be a good Burnout and not one that's rushed or terribly-made, or designed to milk my wallet.

It's a shame this is what the video game industry has come to. And I'm so sick of these mass layoffs we've had so many of since the start of last year. It's never the company's fault, it's always the studio's. Companies always pitch studios with ideas, which are fine at first, but then they go "add all these scummy monetary features like expensive microtransactions and grindy battle passes", and studios will literally explain to them how nobody wants that stuff. Company forces them to do it anyways, much to their dismay, and then when it sure as hell fails, the company just punishes them by rendering them jobless even though it wasn't their idea in the first place. And stuff like that is why almost all parent companies are on my blacklist. I'm not supporting that, period. Not Microsoft, not Embracer Group, not Warner Bros., not Ubisoft, not Electronic Arts, not anybody. I'm not supporting harassment in the workplace, I'm not supporting designing games to make as much money as possible for as little effort as possible, I'm not supporting the closure and mistreatment of studios, I'm not supporting $80+ games with microtransactions, and I'm not supporting the effort to make sure I own as little of my game library as possible

[PyroMonk]

Dead Island 2 was a flop (at least in my opinion), they've milked previewed for more than 10 years and then finally release a game devoid of any life from the original.

[Alex]

Originally posted by Ω Sasha:

Dead Island 2 was a flop (at least in my opinion), they've milked previewed for more than 10 years and then finally release a game devoid of any life from the original.

I'm actually kind of surprised how poorly that game was received considering how successful the Dying Light series is, even if the sequel was more of a mixed bag originally.

[pipe.surgeon]

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

Thanks, I appreciate it. Apologies for it being so extensive, every time I ever form opinions on anything, I always go as in-depth as possible with my reasons. Some people consider that simply yapping or annoying, but the problem is that it's a multitude of factors and not just one or two. [/qoute]

Truely, I didn't read your initial post - Windows narrator did. I did read the second one though. Anyway, don't apologize for being thorough, that's what deep thinkers do. Own it.

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

I'm honestly surprised you agree with what I said, I'm so used to getting like 50 clown awards and harassment comments on my Steam profile for laying out genuine issues I've had with several games. The efforts people go through to defend scummy practices and franchises is heartbreaking, to say the least. I mean... come on... responding to me writing something thought-out and outlining exactly what my problems are, with "hurr durr you're stupid, this game is the best"? Like what does that add to the conversation? Nobody ever at least elaborates on their reasoning, they just say you're wrong and leave it at that, and they do it in the most immature way as possible.

Check my post history. Also, there are plenty of other like minded people that frequent this forum who will agree with your post too.

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

But anyways, Ubisoft is a company I've got blacklisted as well. The last game I bought from them was The Crew, and we can see how well that turned out. I'm so tired of supporting scummy games. But I also miss the days when AAA actually meant something. Sure, there's always indies and spiritual successors, but sometimes having a new game from a well-known franchise was always something worth checking out. For example, you can make a game that's similar to Burnout, but at the end of the day, it's still not Burnout. But if I want a new Burnout game, I'd at least want it to be a good Burnout and not one that's rushed or terribly-made, or designed to milk my wallet.

It's a shame this is what the video game industry has come to. And I'm so sick of these mass layoffs we've had so many of since the start of last year. It's never the company's fault, it's always the studio's. Companies always pitch studios with ideas, which are fine at first, but then they go "add all these scummy monetary features like expensive microtransactions and grindy battle passes", and studios will literally explain to them how nobody wants that stuff. Company forces them to do it anyways, much to their dismay, and then when it sure as hell fails, the company just punishes them by rendering them jobless even though it wasn't their idea in the first place. And stuff like that is why almost all parent companies are on my blacklist. I'm not supporting that, period. Not Microsoft, not Embracer Group, not Warner Bros., not Ubisoft, not Electronic Arts, not anybody. I'm not supporting harassment in the workplace, I'm not supporting designing games to make as much money as possible for as little effort as possible, I'm not supporting the closure and mistreatment of studios, I'm not supporting $80+ games with microtransactions, and I'm not supporting the effort to make sure I own as little of my game library as possible

Also well received. I threw dev company and parent company loyalty out the window a long time ago. These days I'm into devs producing great experiences without being ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Right now Remedy Entertainment is one of those devs. I loved Control and now I'm playing the Alan Wake series.

[Alex]

Originally posted by pipe.surgeon:

Check my post history.

It won't let me, it might be because your profile is private, but I can't say for sure. Just throws me an error on Steam.

EDIT: Browser worked.

[Chris Tohsaka]

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

Greetings!

So! Grand Theft Auto VI. Everyone's been hyping about it pretty much right after Grand Theft Auto V came out, including YouTubers with their clickbait like Sernandoe and MrBossFTW...

Nope, i'm NOT hyped nor care about GTAVI!

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

Greetings!

However, it seems like the last few years, the gaming market's outlook... hasn't been pretty, to say the least. More and more people are getting tired of scummy things. And part of the problem I feel as to why it's been going on for so long is the lack of real skepticism anymore. There's been more than plenty of games that have come out in the industry that are deliberately rushed, broken, unplayable, whatever the case may be (you ever notice by the way that no matter how buggy a game is at launch, the MTX shop is pristine on day one?), or are intentionally designed to be scummy and squeeze out as much money from people as possible. People are quick to complain about these issues, but are anything but hesitant to shell out cash on the very next title that comes out. And of course, we can't forget all of the fanboys and gaming veterans who will defend their favorite franchises no matter how bad it ever gets.

Stop pre-order, stop buying Early Acces, Stop buying Overpriced DLC/First Day stuff, Stop wasting your money on Micro Transaction(s)!

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

Greetings!

but sometimes companies need to start being held accountable, as just because you can ignore poor decisions, that ultimately doesn't mean it's right. If you're willing to listen to what I have to say, it might make a difference.

GTA Online is heavily monetized.

- Despite GTA still holding the world record with insane numbers of sales and making so much money, it's not enough and they keep finding more ways to milk the crap out of the playerbase.
- Shark cards to buy in-game money.
- Overpriced content and underpaid rewards to encourage people to buy said shark cards.

• They'll add a new car in the latest update, it could be the most generic and boring sedan imaginable, but because it's part of the latest update, it costs GTA$6,300,000 for no apparent reason.
  
• The Imponte Dukes was a base game vehicle in the game since launch. Later on, they added a Beater Dukes, which is a crappier, worn version of the vehicle. For some reason, this version costs more than the regular Dukes. Why?

- GTA+ Subscription

• This is unnecessary, they already had shark cards and were already making bank on the game, now they wanted players to pay them monthly too?
  
• The existing base game content and vehicles were locked off behind this new subscription, to incentivize players to subscribe.
  
• One of the "rewards" as a GTA+ subscriber is access to member-exclusive shark cards. Basically, "thanks for giving us money every month, as a reward, here's more ways for you to give us money".

We never got our GTA V singleplayer DLC

- And no, I'm not counting the Online DLC. They always implied since the beginning it was going to be for singleplayer. Online has continued parts of the storyline in numerous ways long before that update came out.

They keep pulling a Bethesda and rereleasing the same game numerous times so they can make more money, especially off of both new and returning Online players.

- "Why did I move here? I guess it was the weather."

Rockstar Games is owned by Take-Two Interactive, one of the scummiest corporations out there next to Embracer Group.

- Regardless of whether it's Rockstar's or Take-Two's fault for why things are terrible, at the end of the day, somebody's got to start taking responsibility for these actions eventually, and by buying stuff, my money goes to both of them anyways.

The GTA Trilogy: The Defective Edition

- Ugh... Jesus... you know, Rockstar easily could've properly remastered these games themselves, they certainly had the budget for it too, instead they outsourced it to a bunch of amateur developers.
- The remaster was half-assed by using AI upscaling on I'd say about 75% of existing textures, which led to a lot of texture issues and incorrect and/or illegible text, instead of giving the trilogy the TLC it properly needed by making stuff by hand.
- The studio behind the remaster was already infamous for their mobile and 360/PS3 ports of the trilogy.
- Despite porting to a new engine, they somehow brought over bugs from the mobile and 360/PS3 ports and didn't fix them.
- The game looked like utter crap and some features were part of the base Unreal Engine or Unreal Marketplace, such as the lighting or day-night cycle. With things like the map, they just threw it in the default LOD generator in Unreal and called it a day, making it look worse and blobby from a distance. Things like this which, when paired with my previous reason of using AI upscaling, shows how little they properly cared with remastering the series, regardless of who's truly at fault.
- The trailers were made to deceive people, showing as little of the game as possible so we couldn't see how bad it was until it was release.
- It got updated a couple times, but years later it STILL looks and plays like crap.
- The original trilogy was delisted, yet modders made the original trilogy look better than the Definitive Edition a long time ago, and they did it for free, long before the Definitive version came to fruition. Maybe they should've hired modders instead to make it, instead of a studio that already had a crappy track record.
- When the game came out, it relied on a connection to the Rockstar Games Social Club DRM. Due to some issues, the first few days people couldn't even obtain access to the game that they bought thanks to DRM.
- Take-Two Interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick claimed that "they don't just port games", and also claimed that if they're going to remaster a game, they'll do it with some TLC. Instead, what we got was something made to make a quick buck, because Take-Two/Rockstar is a cash cow.
- The game was so broken, unstable, and ugly at launch that it's actually amazing it managed to even remotely pass QA testing.

Red Dead Online was completely abandoned because they thought GTA Online was more profitable instead of giving RDO the love it deserved.

Most if not all of the original team of Rockstar left the studio once Red Dead Redemption 2 came out. The people who helped make the original Rockstar games so amazing in the first place aren't even working at Rockstar anymore.

- I don't think many people understand this. GTA VI is being made by completely different people, and there's no guarantee that they'll be able to carry on the HUGE and revolutionary legacy the original team had with previous games.

What you expect from a Lazy Company, They can't even fix 'cheaters'.
And you expect they could even make a good Trilogy???

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

Greetings!

Even then, it's Take-Two. Not only do they already have a poor track record as it is, but look at what happened recently with KSP2 and the shutdown of Intercept games. I know there's a lot of stuff regarding Nick, the guy behind Intercept, but understand that regardless, Take-Two is still a huge company with huge yearly revenue, it's unacceptable for them to randomly close down studios to cut costs, especially when a game like KSP2 is on the line. They have no reason for this, Strauss Zelnick is so focused on profits he doesn't care how many developers have to go jobless, just like any other company. Not to mention his constant millions in bonus pay he's always receiving all the time.

Lol, the hate on T2 is real.
Microsoft is also slowly stopping with Xbox Consoles. And we all know Microsoft is a Billion company. So it's time to stop crying and accept it.
Boycott T2 whatever you want. But Companies like Lazy R*, EA, Ubisoft should also be boycotted!

Originally posted by The One Free Man:

Greetings!

All I ask is that people consider these points before making a firm decision. If you want to harass me, go for it... but again, at least I can say I tried the reasonable route, and it's ultimately not my choice as to what you guys decide to do, but that doesn't mean I can't provide advice for the future. As someone who's a passionate gamer, it's really sad to see the AAA market fall off as badly as it has been. But if people don't start voting with our wallets, how can we ever expect any changes?

Companies like Lazy R*, EA, Ubisoft should also be boycotted!

[Bassturd]

Wow, that's a lot. I give you credit for typing it out.

I'm still gonna get it even if it does suck. Even in it's worse GTA is still fun to play, and we all know mods will be a thing down the road.

Like that old saying, 'Hope for the best and expect the worst'.

[Zero McDol]

Well, GTA 6 isn't on my radar really. Why? Premades.

I'm frankly sick of playing Rockstar's premade characters. Had GTA 6 been more player focused, i.e character creation, then I'd probably buy it, but as is, GTA Online is the better choice for what I want.

The issue with GTA Online though, is that Rockstar are currently doing everything that they can to take the fun out of GTA Online and alienate GTA Online on PC, which makes me wonder what's going to happen with the next one. Bluntly put, I just don't trust Rockstar/TakeTwo and therein lies the problem. If the people at Rockstar are already nerfing content, forcing long waits just to even sell cars, locking previously available content behind a weekly rng grind, not releasing content to PC that is on Consoles, etc., then I really have no hopes for Rockstar at all.

So yea, not only will I not buy GTA 6, but there's a high chance that I won't even play the next GTA Online. I'll just continue adding mods to Skyrim and Cyberpunk 2077 at this point.

[GGcake]

nice

[PanPan]

All industry isn't going well.
Microsoft and Sony aren't better...

I like new AAA for gameplay and graphics, content is usually disappointing.
GTA6 will be a great solo game like RDR2.
Online will be a joke and content will be 10% of GTA5.
Will wait -50% discount...

[-reno-FR-]

OP, really great post.

+100% with you.

I personnally hate Strauss Zelnick, because he stincks the hypocrisis at high rates.

[Alex]

Originally posted by -reno-FR-:

OP, really great post.

+100% with you.

I personnally hate Strauss Zelnick, because he stincks the hypocrisis at high rates.

Thank you.

[ChickenBalls]

I want to thank chatgpt for giving us all those informative posts

[Alex]

Originally posted by ChickenBalls:

I want to thank chatgpt for giving us all those informative posts :BC_ThankYou:

?