Question about the Open IV Controversy

[af]

I am relatively new to this community. Any new insight that can be provided to further my understanding is accepted.

The main reasons so far I have found for the cease and desist Take Two ordered against Open IV is to

• protect intellectual property rights
  
• prevent hacking/modding/cheating in GTA Online

It is true Take Two and Rockstar Games were well within the confines of the law. Yet I still cannot understand as to how this helps anyone - both players and those involved in its creation. To protect the game's online features and the game's coding/intellectual property, the company or publisher has paid a massive price. It all seems like such a short term benefit, there seems to be no long term incentive to this idea.

People have justified the closing of Open IV as legal. Yet there is a difference between what is legal and what the reality brings to the company. Regardless of whether the GTA series was never intended to be modded or not, whether it be by accident or by design, GTA has been popular for its modding feature which gave it a massive reputation. Was it worth taking away the modding feature simply for the two reasons above? How does it help the marketing stategy for the GTA series, especially its future? How does it help the image of this company? Now not only is Take Two's reputation tarnished, possibly even Rockstar Games will be blamed for this change in game features (especially since people will assume the developers were involved).

Hopefully new, upcoming titles such as Red Dead Redemption 2 may make up for the expected losses in the future because of the loss of support the company and publishers now experience. Maybe the company or publisher felt the console base was enough to keep them afloat and decided the PC player base was not such a big deal. However the future of the GTA title does not seem promising.

I never expect the mods to return. If Take Two decides to make this a permanent change despite the petitions by the fan base to bring back Open IV, it is ultimately their choice. Nevertheless, I have the need to satisfy my curiosity to know the rational reasoning behind why this decision was made to begin with and what made it worthwhile.

[af]

Rockin' Shawn の投稿を引用：

Scrubwave の投稿を引用：

It is safe to say that publishers have no idea whatsoever how video games work, they're clueless suits.

And greedy ones, too. What did one of the T2 suits (was it the CEO even?) say about us...their customers? "There's more wood to chop"...and if you listen to other publishers, they actually call us whales and cows, which they must milk as much as possible...THAT is how suits tend to look at players.

I have heard that by banning mods they can start promoting their microtransactions (shark cards) and possible DLCs. But considering people are not even bothering to play the game anymore, I can't see this outlook turning into a long term investment. I thought corporate leaders who are greedy and whatnot were at least intelligent enough to know how the crowd would react.

[Rockin' Shawn]

F の投稿を引用：

Rockin' Shawn の投稿を引用：

And greedy ones, too. What did one of the T2 suits (was it the CEO even?) say about us...their customers? "There's more wood to chop"...and if you listen to other publishers, they actually call us whales and cows, which they must milk as much as possible...THAT is how suits tend to look at players.

I have heard that by banning mods they can start promoting their microtransactions (shark cards) and possible DLCs. But considering people are not even bothering to play the game anymore, I can't see this outlook turning into a long term investment. I thought corporate leaders who are greedy and whatnot were at least intelligent enough to know how the crowd would react.

Greed tends to blind people I guess...

[⥈]

Unit 744 の投稿を引用：

Seeings how this seems to be the only civilized discussion taking place, i will leave my opinion here before it turns ugly. Prepare for a long post.


As for what actually happens with OpenIV, I see 4 possibilities.

<snip>

Excellent post and one of the best I've read on the subject.

Everything you said was spot on including the one that I wished I had written...

Unit 744 の投稿を引用：

2, OpenIV actually did allow some hacking to occur. While many will cite reasons why this is not the case, perhaps the most simple reason is that it does not matter whether or not it allowed some hacking. There are many hacks out there, independent of OpenIV, that would allow such or similar hacking to occur. Remove OpenIV, and those alledged hackers using OpenIV could just use the other 100 hacks on the internet. T2 cannot possibly police the entire internet to remove all hacks, so removing OpenIV, used by many to mod SP, would be a counterproductive choice. The amount of hackers would not be reduced, and now the community is outraged. A more productive option would be to have informed OpenIV of the issue of hacking and work with them to somehow reduce or remove its effect. If OpenIV refused cooperation, the community would be disappointed but more understanding of T2's action. Given its lack of mention by T2 or Rockstar, cooperation was likely not sought.

[SpartanHexus]

Immortal Disciple の投稿を引用：

Unit 744 の投稿を引用：

2, OpenIV actually did allow some hacking to occur. While many will cite reasons why this is not the case, perhaps the most simple reason is that it does not matter whether or not it allowed some hacking. There are many hacks out there, independent of OpenIV, that would allow such or similar hacking to occur. Remove OpenIV, and those alledged hackers using OpenIV could just use the other 100 hacks on the internet. T2 cannot possibly police the entire internet to remove all hacks, so removing OpenIV, used by many to mod SP, would be a counterproductive choice. The amount of hackers would not be reduced, and now the community is outraged. A more productive option would be to have informed OpenIV of the issue of hacking and work with them to somehow reduce or remove its effect. If OpenIV refused cooperation, the community would be disappointed but more understanding of T2's action. Given its lack of mention by T2 or Rockstar, cooperation was likely not sought.

Well, idk why but here i am pasting my own reply:


OpenIV is a multi-purpose file editor and archive manager, it isn't a Mod menu or any other type of online cheat in any way or form.

All of the online cheats we have relies on memory editing which doesn't require any file editing, extraction, injection any or Open IV feature at all, and such memory editors like Trainers, Menu mods, cheat engine are really good at tampering with online experience on P2P games.

So Open IV is completely irrelevant when it comes to online cheating.

[af]

SpartanHexus の投稿を引用：

So Open IV is completely irrelevant when it comes to online cheating.

Regardless of whether it was involved with cheating or not, T2's supposed countermeasure was irresponsible and virtually suicidal. The reasons that have been given as to why Open IV was banned doesn't add up to any form of logic at all. It's even worse to see that even answers such as "greed" or "maximizing profit" can't explain why this happened, since shutting down Open IV was against the marketing strategy.

This has become such a mystery, it doesn't portray the kind of stupidity which makes one prone to throwiung insults or criticism. Rather, it is so unintelligent as a decision, it actually makes one wonder if they are missing something in this massive picture. It induces a strange benefit of the doubt that this may all actually be some form of extreme genius none of us have come to understand yet. Because personally, I genuinely cannot believe companies and publishers, as human beings, could be this illogical.

[⥈]

SpartanHexus の投稿を引用：

Immortal Disciple の投稿を引用：

Well, idk why but here i am pasting my own reply:


OpenIV is a multi-purpose file editor and archive manager, it isn't a Mod menu or any other type of online cheat in any way or form.

All of the online cheats we have relies on memory editing which doesn't require any file editing, extraction, injection any or Open IV feature at all, and such memory editors like Trainers, Menu mods, cheat engine are really good at tampering with online experience on P2P games.

So Open IV is completely irrelevant when it comes to online cheating.

So you are an expert on this and know for a fact that there is no way that the tool could have been exploited?
I'm not saying that it should or am glad it was taken down. I'm as upset as any as I only play SP.
But I think taking down this tool as Unit 744 said is counterproductive.

[Edward Kenway]

F の投稿を引用：

Maybe the company or publisher felt the console base was enough to keep them afloat and decided the PC player base was not such a big deal.

You just said it all in that sentence!
They actually dont need the PC player base for nothing, its only a small portion of the overall player base, console is where the money is!

[af]

Canhoto83 の投稿を引用：

F の投稿を引用：

Maybe the company or publisher felt the console base was enough to keep them afloat and decided the PC player base was not such a big deal.

You just said it all in that sentence!
They actually dont need he PC player base for nothing, its only a small portion of the overall player base, console is where the money is!

But why then do they need to shut down Open IV? If they simply decided to ignore the PC community and move on (make future titles console exclusives/focus on console only), what good does shutting down Open IV do for anyone? Open IV seems to have disappeared for no real reason.

[Edward Kenway]

F の投稿を引用：

Canhoto83 の投稿を引用：

You just said it all in that sentence!
They actually dont need he PC player base for nothing, its only a small portion of the overall player base, console is where the money is!

But why then do they need to shut down Open IV? If they simply decided to ignore the PC community and move on (make future titles console exclusives/focus on console only), what good does shutting down Open IV do for anyone? Open IV seems to have disappeared for no real reason.

They didnt ignore the PC comunity, im just saying that PC isnt their main focus, its consoles, it always were!

[Zombits]

Mod users have the mentality of wanting stuff '' right here right now '' without having to explore and grind a little to deserve items. Just seeing them cry here lately about their lost toy that was never supported by R* or T2 was a joke..

Gonna wait now to see them throw rotten tomatos at me and say ♥♥♥ ;)

[⥈]

I don't think it's about one platform or another.
Money is to gained from every one of them.
It's more about control of thier IP and losing precious $$$$ from people getting modded money and not paying for Shark Cards.
Effing Shark Cards! Greedy @$$ company that can't just give players the chance to earn it in game in order to buy whatever asset they desire.

[SpartanHexus]

Immortal Disciple の投稿を引用：

SpartanHexus の投稿を引用：

Well, idk why but here i am pasting my own reply:


OpenIV is a multi-purpose file editor and archive manager, it isn't a Mod menu or any other type of online cheat in any way or form.

All of the online cheats we have relies on memory editing which doesn't require any file editing, extraction, injection any or Open IV feature at all, and such memory editors like Trainers, Menu mods, cheat engine are really good at tampering with online experience on P2P games.

So Open IV is completely irrelevant when it comes to online cheating.

So you are an expert on this and know for a fact that there is no way that the tool could have been exploited?
I'm not saying that it should or am glad it was taken down. I'm as upset as any as I only play SP.
But I think taking down this tool as Unit 744 said is counterproductive.

While i do have some degree regarding Knowledge on this i'm not a expert, as someone who makes use of cheat engine (a memory editor, no i don't use it on GTA Online) and who made full use of Open IV i know first hand that there is no feature on Open IV capable of becoming a online exploit/malicious hack or anything like it, there is no Hacking or modification on it that would offer any benefit or advantage in the process of making a Online Hack.

There is no need to believe o me on that, just look for ANY example of ANY hack used Open IV on its creation or was based on it. Do a full search over the internet. You're not gonna find anything.

Memory editors are called as such because they do not alter any of the game's file, they tamper with what's already loaded on your RAM while the game is being executed, file encryption, extraction, injection or any other actions upon the game core files (which is where Open IV is limited too) is completely irrelevant to these softwares. Online Hacks, Trainers, Mod Menus (which is a fancier of trainer) do nothing but make use of Memory Editting to achieve all of their functions. Example: A pointer on cheat engine that points to the Money variable that's on your RAM so you can modify how much money you have* at any time.

Memory editors however can only edit what's locally loaded on your RAM, if the game wasn't peer 2 peer, making this work would be A LOT* harder and much easier to detect.

Edit: Fixing spelling as well... "ALOT", i gotta stop making that mistake.

[Rockin' Shawn]

Zombit の投稿を引用：

Mod users have the mentality of wanting stuff '' right here right now '' without having to explore and grind a little to deserve items. Just seeing them cry here lately about their lost toy that was never supported by R* or T2 was a joke..

Gonna wait now to see them throw rotten tomatos at me and say ♥♥♥ ;)

Modding is not about taking shortcuts but mainly about adding stuff to the game that doesn't exist in the first place. KITT from Knight Rider (a 100% accurate one) is a good example. Or maybe someone wants a certain type of motorcycle that's not in the game...or fully customizable homes etc. etc. Modding is about customization, adding missions, adding gameplay mechanics, visuals etc. It's not about spawning the most expensive car just to take a shortcut.

[SpartanHexus]

Zombit の投稿を引用：

Mod users have the mentality of wanting stuff '' right here right now '' without having to explore and grind a little to deserve items. Just seeing them cry here lately about their lost toy that was never supported by R* or T2 was a joke..

Gonna wait now to see them throw rotten tomatos at me and say ♥♥♥ ;)

That's something related to cheaters, being a "modder" has nothing to do with that. People who takes hacked money on purpose are cheaters without also being modders.

[⥈]

SpartanHexus の投稿を引用：

Immortal Disciple の投稿を引用：

So you are an expert on this and know for a fact that there is no way that the tool could have been exploited?
I'm not saying that it should or am glad it was taken down. I'm as upset as any as I only play SP.
But I think taking down this tool as Unit 744 said is counterproductive.

While i do have some degree regarding Knowledge on this i'm not a expert, as someone who makes use of cheat engine (a memory editor, no i don't use it on GTA Online) and who made full use of Open IV i know first hand that there is no feature on Open IV capable of becoming a online exploit/malicious hack or anything like it, there is no Hacking or modification on it that would offer any benefit or advantage in the process of making a Online Hack.

There is no need to believe o me on that, just look for ANY example of ANY hack used Open IV on its creation or was based on it. So a full search over the internet. You're not gonna find anything.

Memory editors are called as such because they do not alter any of the game's file, they tamper with what's already loaded on your RAM while the game is being executed, file encryption, extraction, injection or any other actions upon the game core files (which is where Open IV is limited too) is completely irrelevant to these softwares. Online Hacks, Trainers, Mod Menus (which is a fancier of trainer) do nothing but make use of Memory Editting to achieve all of their functions. Example: A pointer on cheat engine that points to the Money variable that's on your RAM so you can modify how much money you want at any time.

Memory editors however can only edit what's locally loaded on your RAM, if the game wasn't peer 2 peer, making this work would be ALOT harder and much easier to detect.

Well I must say you are more versed in this than I but I'm just a simple SP mod user.
Of course I will not find anything in a search.
I've tried.
Most hackers don't divulge their sources so there is no solid proof either way.

*Edit....spelling.