[CLOSED] The Ethics of GTA Online Modding: A Discussion for both Modders and Legitimate players alike.

[Kirana Ruto]

Legitimate Players and Modders of Grand Theft Auto Online, Welcome to the very first discussion about The Ethics of Grand Theft Auto Online modding.

Please note that there will be no tl;dr, so do not make a tl;dr post on hopes that it will help you. It won't.

Also note that this topic is made in response to several 'Getting Banned' discussions I noticed popping up, and I do have some rules which I will estabalish in this very first discussion.

1. Do not lock or mark the topic for deletion unless I ask for it to be closed and locked. We know the stance Rockstar is taking, but this is meant for personal opinions, without bias from Rockstar themselves.
1.1. Furthermore, any post linking to Rockstar's official statement will be deleted.

2. No swearing, insulting, or any level of rage. As a community, I feel the need to respect each other members. Besides, this is explicitly free for all, but that doesn't mean a big F bomb for no reason other than hate for the concept is allowed either.
2.1. Furthermore, Legitimate players who insult modders and modders who insult legitimate players will be asked politely via a reply to edit their statements to a more polite form. Failure to comply will result in the deletion of the reply made by the original poster.

3. Simply relax, I'm going to try see this on the perspective of both modders and legitimate players alike. Rest assured, all points made will be retained if I finally decide to ask the topic to be closed.

4. On discussions with a choice, selecting more than one choice, unless otherwise noted, is strictly prohibited. Once you made a choice, stick with it.

Now then, on to our topic:

A topic started by user LordStuff prompted a discussion that I feel worth asking and questioning for the community.

Who would you side with? A modder who helps people, or a Troll who plays legitimately?

For some, Modders are a thorn in the existence of Grand Theft Auto Online. For others, Trolls fill that role as a thorn. This creates a division between our community as of who should we eliminate first. My aim with this discussion is to make it final and see who will the community support. Both are viewed as bad things, but you can only defend one. My vote will never count, and the community has to be the one to decide. Do not quote Rockstar, and make your own reasons.

For the modder, the Grand Theft Auto Online economy is broken. Money required for something like a Karin Kuruma will have to be made through long, Disgaea-like grinds, or through the Shark Card microtransaction system, which not everyone have the money to use.

For the troll, the Grand Theft Auto Online world is the perfect place for mischief. A world where players are easily angered and weapons for trolling are readily available. A world where they can reign supreme as the person who creates the salt.

Which one will you help? The longer you make the posts, the better. Longer posts carefully explaining the points are good posts.

Now, let the discussion begin.

EDIT: Discussion Over. Results will be in a follow up topic.

[[-iD-]]

neither because both are equally scum.

[ennui]

The lesser evil, I'd rather get killed by a salty scumbag who plays legitimately​ than get my money removed unfairly, or my cars blown up by some 'external force', or have my character being teleported around by some modder or 'script kiddie'.

[lexv79]

Ethics?
Are you mad?
There are more than enough place to mod in singleplayer, why they coming in online? They coming to me with their godmode, invisiblity and other crap. They make chaos in my session and they do not ask me. I do not call them. Can you understand this? All script kiddies must be banned.

[Vazkulator]

Usually cheaters are nice to me and respect that i don't want money dropped over me, ive played for over 3 years now and never had more than 5-6 million dollar dropped on me in total of all years together and i can farm about 2-4 million dollars in a day or two with no problem or stress under a good weekend with a lot of freedom.

I can understand why most people cheat, either theyre totally fed up of the lack of things to do after years in this game and of course the majority of cheaters are completely worthless even if theyre told exactly what to do over comms once they go clean.

My only grudge towards cheaters is their lack of respect, integrity and sense of achieving.

Just like in games as in real life, somebody who usually has those things and respects it, you would want things you cant have and show little to no interest in things that comes easy but we all share a sense of fun and whatever is entertaining.

last 2-3 times ive been around a cheater, we turned a big group of people in MC groups and went to explore caves a long with a large number of freshies and they were excited to do such simple things as noobs were completely enthralled by things to see and kept asking for me to use flashlights over things in caves as they had not unlocked these things or didnt know how to use the lights on their weapons.

I couldn't give a single fudge about what you choose to do with your game or your life, but if the reason for cheating is to be ruining the sense of achievement, progression and the challenges in games ? then ♥♥♥

money beggars and people who wants things for free are insects, just a plague or less than vermin which needs to be exterminated and hang high once theyre destroyed.

[Kirana Ruto]

Originally posted by lexv79:

Ethics?
Are you mad?
There are more than enough place to mod in singleplayer, why they coming in online? They coming to me with their godmode, invisiblity and other crap. They make chaos in my session and they do not ask me. I do not call them. Can you understand this? All script kiddies must be banned.

I am not mad. But, please describe to me how precisely do the player you described use their cheats.

I believe that they have their own roles. While cheaters are considered a problem, they also found some things that Rockstar would need to patch. Therefore, it's a win - win. The cheaters are useful because while they exploit holes in the Anti Cheat system, they helped find exploitables that should be fixed by Rockstar.

And the benefits for legitimate players? Well, they get a game with less cheats because those cheaters unknowingly helped patch holes on the GTA Online Anti Cheat.

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

modder or cheater ?

To be precise, Modder regular or Legit Troll.

Originally posted by angst:

The lesser evil, I'd rather get killed by a salty scumbag who plays legitimately​ than get my money removed unfairly, or my cars blown up by some 'external force', or have my character being teleported around by some modder or 'script kiddie'.

Certainly an interesting choice here. Your input is noted. That's one vote for modders being a problem.

[nonames]

I think you see where the community stands on this victor. What gives a cheater the right to cheat over anybody else, what makes him so special that he should be allowed to cheat, no such thing as a good cheater no matter how they use it get your head out of your ass boy.

[Kirana Ruto]

Originally posted by Vazkulator:

Usually cheaters are nice to me and respect that i don't want money dropped over me, ive played for over 3 years now and never had more than 5-6 million dollar dropped on me in total of all years together and i can farm about 2-4 million dollars in a day or two with no problem or stress under a good weekend with a lot of freedom.

I can understand why most people cheat, either theyre totally fed up of the lack of things to do after years in this game and of course the majority of cheaters are completely worthless even if theyre told exactly what to do over comms once they go clean.

My only grudge towards cheaters is their lack of respect, integrity and sense of achieving.

Just like in games as in real life, somebody who usually has those things and respects it, you would want things you cant have and show little to no interest in things that comes easy but we all share a sense of fun and whatever is entertaining.

last 2-3 times ive been around a cheater, we turned a big group of people in MC groups and went to explore caves a long with a large number of freshies and they were excited to do such simple things as noobs were completely enthralled by things to see and kept asking for me to use flashlights over things in caves as they had not unlocked these things or didnt know how to use the lights on their weapons.

I couldn't give a single fudge about what you choose to do with your game or your life, but if the reason for cheating is to be ruining the sense of achievement, progression and the challenges in games ? then ♥♥♥

money beggars and people who wants things for free are insects, just a plague or less than vermin which needs to be exterminated and hang high once theyre destroyed.

Aah. Another interesting vote.

I can see why you hate people who cheat for progress. Some people don't want to take the effort to do the heists, or they tried but they don't have others who would want to. And that's OK if you want to have a grudge with those people. I won't debate it, but it certainly is a topic that I would consider on my next 'The Ethics of GTA Online Modding' discussion, which won't happen until I ask someone to close this discussion.

Another vote for the problem being modders.

[Kirana Ruto]

Originally posted by nonames:

I think you see where the community stands on this victor. What gives a cheater the right to cheat over anybody else, what makes him so special that he should be allowed to cheat, no such thing as a good cheater no matter how they use it get your head out of your ass boy.

Another swearing? nonames, This discussion strictly disallows swearing. Please edit it to eliminate the swearing, and I will count it as a vote to modders being the problem.

Originally posted by -iD-:

neither because both are equally scum.

Oh my. Someone pointed out a loophole on the rules! My, my. I would have to fix this loophole on the next 'The Ethics of GTA Online Modding' discussion.

[Alejandro]

All cheaters are cheating, thus don't deserve any positive feedback.
They chose to show what they are doing to others because they think it makes them look cool but it doesn't.
If I was to modify the game and have advantages over anyone it would be unfair but alot of kids want to feel important and to stand out and they don't see that cheating makes them lower than the average player.

[Pterolycus_Aigars1983]

modding online is ilegal and punishment will reach you only matter of time

[nonames]

Let me just say this, if a troll who is playing legit can go around making a session miserable for other players he has earned that right to do so and it's part of the game people can still kill him though if they are good enough players it's not like the scumbags running around in god mode who you can't kill no matter how good you are like what's the point of resurrection or death matches if you have not the slightest chance of winning because one of the douche bags on the opposite team is using god mode.

[nomadrider]

Ban them all. There is no reason to cheat in a multiplayer game. The majority aren't modders or hackers, most are script kiddies, downloading and dropping a file or files into a folder doesn't make you a modder. If you wrote your own program you may deserve a better title. If not you don't qualify as a modder or a hacker. Modders bring new origional content to a game. A script kiddie with a menu that allows them to drop content already coded into the game is not a modder. Modders add new things and have skills. Haven't seen a single real modder in GTAO.

[Pterolycus_Aigars1983]

Originally posted by RBX Victorhan24alt:

Legitimate Players and Modders of Grand Theft Auto Online, Welcome to the very first discussion about The Ethics of Grand Theft Auto Online modding.

Please note that there will be no tl;dr, so do not make a tl;dr post on hopes that it will help you. It won't.

Also note that this topic is made in response to several 'Getting Banned' discussions I noticed popping up, and I do have some rules which I will estabalish in this very first discussion.

1. Do not lock or mark the topic for deletion unless I ask for it to be closed and locked. We know the stance Rockstar is taking, but this is meant for personal opinions, without bias from Rockstar themselves.
1.1. Furthermore, any post linking to Rockstar's official statement will be deleted.

2. No swearing, insulting, or any level of rage. As a community, I feel the need to respect each other members. Besides, this is explicitly free for all, but that doesn't mean a big F bomb for no reason other than hate for the concept is allowed either.
2.1. Furthermore, Legitimate players who insult modders and modders who insult legitimate players will be asked politely via a reply to edit their statements to a more polite form. Failure to comply will result in the deletion of the reply made by the original poster.

3. Simply relax, I'm going to try see this on the perspective of both modders and legitimate players alike. Rest assured, all points made will be retained if I finally decide to ask the topic to be closed.

4. On discussions with a choice, selecting more than one choice, unless otherwise noted, is strictly prohibited. Once you made a choice, stick with it.

Now then, on to our topic:

A topic started by user LordStuff prompted a discussion that I feel worth asking and questioning for the community.

Who would you side with? A modder who helps people, or a Troll who plays legitimately?

For some, Modders are a thorn in the existence of Grand Theft Auto Online. For others, Trolls fill that role as a thorn. This creates a division between our community as of who should we eliminate first. My aim with this discussion is to make it final and see who will the community support. Both are viewed as bad things, but you can only defend one. My vote will never count, and the community has to be the one to decide. Do not quote Rockstar, and make your own reasons.

For the modder, the Grand Theft Auto Online economy is broken. Money required for something like a Karin Kuruma will have to be made through long, Disgaea-like grinds, or through the Shark Card microtransaction system, which not everyone have the money to use.

For the troll, the Grand Theft Auto Online world is the perfect place for mischief. A world where players are easily angered and weapons for trolling are readily available. A world where they can reign supreme as the person who creates the salt.

Which one will you help? The longer you make the posts, the better. Longer posts carefully explaining the points are good posts.

Now, let the discussion begin.

you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idiot !!! you are wellcoming peeps to get banned all rockstars statement will bee deleted then DONT PLAY THIS GAME !! cuz it belongs to rockstar and this discussion is peace of bulsh.coming from peace of bulsh!!! makes no sense they get banned nets we also wanna ?? lets all get banned !!! face it idiots cheating is ilegal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kirana Ruto]

Originally posted by JADERNIJ|ALKASHI:

modding online is ilegal and punishment will reach you only matter of time

My, my. Clearly someone doesn't read the rules on the original post.

Originally posted by Alejandro:

All cheaters are cheating, thus don't deserve any positive feedback.
They chose to show what they are doing to others because they think it makes them look cool but it doesn't.
If I was to modify the game and have advantages over anyone it would be unfair but alot of kids want to feel important and to stand out and they don't see that cheating makes them lower than the average player.

Well, certainly another vote for cheaters being the problem.

This characterization surely is interesting, though. Cheaters who cheat for scores? Good Cheater behaviour is certainly something I could consider for the topic of the next 'The Ethics of GTA Online Modding' discussion.

[MonK]

Screw this wall of text xD