Need tips for expansionist (for manager level campaign)

[DrakenKin]

I do great as scientists or even scavengers, but somehow i seem to not "get" expansionists. In other words compared to the scientists who can skip a whole mining building and make the product directly, not to forget having tech to skip carbon also, and having access to a quick nano so you can switch buildings around without losing value... having one extra claim per level seems so useless.

How do i turn my claim advantage into money?

My current thinking (that isn't working well) is that i use it for diversity. So i would make a triangle (3x buildings for 75% production bonus) of most things, of cource starting with what is currently the most profitable, so as prices go up and down there is always something that is making money.

If something goes offline because it is losing money, sometimes i leave it when i expect prices to go up again, or sometimes i replace it with something else. But almost always when i replace it i regret it, because if i make too much of something the prices tank really quickly, i am talking 30 seconds 1 minutes here, and often it doesn't even pay back the price of the building itself and the lost time require to replace the building (ships flying there then taking a while to build) sometimes by the time the new building goes up the price tanks from making 50+$ to losing money.

This is especially hard when the AI has hacker arrays and it keeps lowering prices of whatever you're making the most of. With hacking every 60 seconds, which is 3 times a day, it is really hard to keep ahead of the hacker array when you have 2-3 AIs with access to one in a game.

Right now doing the first map in the 10 week expansionist campaign and i feel like i need an upgrade on my thinking to be able to beat it. I always come up short by 1 or 2 modules, such as losing 12 to 13.

[DrakenKin]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1349287658

I ended up choosing the free solar panel + electronics upgrade + glass upgrade

This is what i am up against :

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1349287760

One AI can build with aluminum instead of glass, another has a dome that ends up being the most profitable at the end because as prices of everything fluctuates and crash the dome is a steady income. But the main issue are the 2 hackers arrays that seem focused on lowering the price of whatever i am producing for the whole game.

[Bigheaded]

i find them by far the easiest to play.

I would always start right next to iron, unless steel starts at 120, get 1 iron 3 steel, if it does, then go 4 steel.
Also, your staff should focus on metal/steel. 1x metal and 1x steel will help tenfold in getting an early game advantage. Your solar panel pick up was good though.
Also bear in mind in campaign you specialise in water/food/oxygen/fuel with expansion.

If you choose a scenario with bribe a claim, get the first 3. then constantly use the black market against your nearest rival. EMP is usually best.

Ideally you should be able to hit your enemies before they can really get the hacker arrays going.


I would personally suggest it was a mistake going for both electronics and glass. pick one or the other. Focus on steel/metal for fast hq upgrades then on water, food, oxygen and fuel for profit. at hq4-5 only then it's time to get electronics/glass if they are more profitable, which you may find they are not.
Also bear in mind that your quarries SUCK. so trying to get carbon, aluminium and silicon for electronics is going to be difficult and almost certainly not as profitable as going for glass/chems.
Finally, keep in mind what the colony wants.
my engineers were metal mine, steel, electronics and chems. I never built a chem/electronics factory in the game as the colony was requiring glass and lots of it.


I have a replay which had it's own struggle where the AI had control of the carbon which was on the other side of the map (also remember the quarries we use will not be as good as theirs), whereas i had control of what the colony was building because i reached hq5 first, apart from habitats because they needed carbon on that particular scenario (i use patron DLC)

[DrakenKin]

Yes I always buy up the first claims, i even prioritize these over HQ upgrades often since i don't want the AI to grab the cheap claims first.

For the iron, I usually grab one high iron and 2 steel, AND one high aluminum. But i see how your idea of using more steel and no alum makes sens if the price is high. My only worry is not grabbing a high alum early might backfire later if its price goes way up.

I mostly try to get level 2 for the raw material staff, then focus on higher buildings such as farms and electronics. But you're right early game advantage is really important so i might rethink the importance of those early buildings.

I don't use black market for sabotage, i mostly focus on long term advantages such as claims, core, and pirates when something valuable is being shipped, and only go for sabotage a bit later when i have more cashflow and a clear opponent in the race for modules. The only times i am more agressive with sabotage is when the map only has 2 opponent, since the returns on slowing them down is much higher.

Going for both electronics and glass is an insurance in case hacker heavily drops one, i can switch. If i go with only one and the prices really fall, then i am stuck with no profitable alternative.

I do try to race against hacker array, and in "normal" games it's not a huge issue since eventually the prices of the hacks rise so much that it becomes a money sink for the AI. But in campaign where there are only 7 days, hacker array is cheap price controls and has enough impact to be trouble.

Finally, keep in mind what the colony wants.

Ok this is definitely something i don't look much into. I just buy whatever module is cheaper at the time. I am aware the modules increase consumption and so has an impact on prices, but what will an extra 0.2 glass usage do for me? It seems the consumption increase is tiny and doesn't justify me paying 2-4-6k+ for a more expensive specific module. Am i wrong?

i had control of what the colony was building because i reached hq5 first,

Can you clarify what you mean? How does getting to HQ5 control the needs?

I have no DLCs so far, waiting to master the game a little bit more and make sure i want to play it long term before investing into more DLCs. I feel like i still have a lot of things to learn before making the game more complex with DLCs.

[Bigheaded]

Originally posted by Draken:

Yes I always buy up the first claims, i even prioritize these over HQ upgrades often since i don't want the AI to grab the cheap claims first.

For the iron, I usually grab one high iron and 2 steel, AND one high aluminum. But i see how your idea of using more steel and no alum makes sens if the price is high. My only worry is not grabbing a high alum early might backfire later if its price goes way up.

no issue here.

I mostly try to get level 2 for the raw material staff, then focus on higher buildings such as farms and electronics. But you're right early game advantage is really important so i might rethink the importance of those early buildings.

Water is worth considering at t2, silicon/carbon should not. At t3, depends on price/location, even then i'd go into one and not the other. electronics is just too much of a hassle early on in the campaign for expansion

I don't use black market for sabotage, i mostly focus on long term advantages such as claims, core, and pirates when something valuable is being shipped, and only go for sabotage a bit later when i have more cashflow and a clear opponent in the race for modules. The only times i am more agressive with sabotage is when the map only has 2 opponent, since the returns on slowing them down is much higher.

not sure how much use of core you're doing, 1x should be enough per map. In general it's better to have 3x equal opponents than 1 strong one, and emp will impact the game more heavily than pirates in most situations.

Going for both electronics and glass is an insurance in case hacker heavily drops one, i can switch. If i go with only one and the prices really fall, then i am stuck with no profitable alternative.

If you have production of steel, the cost of switching out of anything unprofitable by removing and replacing it with something profitable is something to highly consider.

Finally, keep in mind what the colony wants.

Ok this is definitely something i don't look much into. I just buy whatever module is cheaper at the time. I am aware the modules increase consumption and so has an impact on prices, but what will an extra 0.2 glass usage do for me? It seems the consumption increase is tiny and doesn't justify me paying 2-4-6k+ for a more expensive specific module. Am i wrong?

Not usually, in my instance though, the cheapest one to build was to use steel, which is ideal, that particular module makes it consume glass, which is why i went into silicon and glass.
getting hackers to reduce glass when the colony wants 5 tick isn't necessarily going to cause much of a drop.

i had control of what the colony was building because i reached hq5 first,

Can you clarify what you mean? How does getting to HQ5 control the needs?

I have no DLCs so far, waiting to master the game a little bit more and make sure i want to play it long term before investing into more DLCs. I feel like i still have a lot of things to learn before making the game more complex with DLCs.

[/quote]

I meant because i was HQ5 first, i had all claims used up, there was nothing left to spend money on apart from sabotage and on the colony. By comparison all 3 other ai's were still at hq3 (to be fair, it wasn't a particularly "nice" map). I could choose which of the 3 buildings of the colony i wished to focus on, Steel was an obvious choice seeing expansionist makes tonnes of it. If the scavenger managed to build a bunch of one of the other ones, my glass would have been much less profitable, also because i bought out all the cheap colony upgrades (they get more expensive as each one is built) the ai struggled to raise the funds to do so.

[DrakenKin]

>>>>not sure how much use of core you're doing, 1x should be enough per map. In general it's better to have 3x equal opponents than 1 strong one, and emp will impact the game more heavily than pirates in most situations.<<<<

I guess it's because of my play style. I tend to pick maps with rare or low ressources, so i can try to find a monopoly. If for instance a map has 6 silicon, i might settle my HQ to destroy 3 of them and grab the other 3. Then later on I will core more silicon (i have to use core with expansionists, in my scientist run i was grabbing the slant drilling patent which is a lot more convenient), so with that extra silicon i can be profitable on eletronics and/or glass where the AI can't. Side effect is, when i use core, i make it more expensive, so i lower the chance of AI finding some new silicon somewhere.

The other long term black market tool i forgot to mention was adrenaline, since boosting yourself is a lot more efficient than sabotaging others. Being smarter than the AI, any extra money we get we can keep investing in better way thus it has exponential returns. If i use the same money for sabotage, it doesn't have comparable long term returns.

As for pirates, i feel they are underestimated. If food is selling at 200, or more often than not, WATER on day 6 or 7, and i use pirates to intercept, that's 40,000$ for me and 40,000$ lost for the AI. Meaning i just got ahead by 80k, which is most cases is 3-4 extra modules for me.

>>>>If you have production of steel, the cost of switching out of anything unprofitable by removing and replacing it with something profitable is something to highly consider.<<<<

Agreed, but what if steel is expensive? It could be more profitable to sell it.

I am talking about the situation where you spent a lot on steel to switch, and by the time you get started the prices have shifted enough that it's not as profitable anymore, and selling the steel while waiting for whatever you've built recovers ends up making you more money.

I guess what i need to improve is being able to look at the map and the AI and quickly understand what prices are going up or down next. I am getting better at it with simple things like electricity and water, but still have to get the hang of it for more complex industries. And need to do it more often. It is just confusing when hacker array is thrown in, but if with experience i can learn to guess where the AI will use it that will help also.

>>>>>Not usually, in my instance though, the cheapest one to build was to use steel, which is ideal, that particular module makes it consume glass, which is why i went into silicon and glass. getting hackers to reduce glass when the colony wants 5 tick isn't necessarily going to cause much of a drop.<<<<

Definitly. I will pay more attention to that in the future. To be honest i don't even look at what it costs to make the module, i just take whatever is cheaper from the cost summary, without looking at the unit cost. My logic is that if it's cheaper, then i can just buy it and sell the things that are worth more. No need to worry about producing what the module needs in ressource since it all burns down to money in the end.

But if i am having a monopoly on silicon, and i can buy the glass ticking modules, long term that's gonna pay off so i should use that to my advantage more.

I meant because i was HQ5 first, i had all claims used up, there was nothing left to spend money on apart from sabotage and on the colony. By comparison all 3 other ai's were still at hq3 (to be fair, it wasn't a particularly "nice" map). I could choose which of the 3 buildings of the colony i wished to focus on, Steel was an obvious choice seeing expansionist makes tonnes of it. If the scavenger managed to build a bunch of one of the other ones, my glass would have been much less profitable, also because i bought out all the cheap colony upgrades (they get more expensive as each one is built) the ai struggled to raise the funds to do so.

Ah I get it. I used to focus on building my base until everything is nearly perfect before starting to buy modules. But recently i have been buying them earlier and earlier trying to find a good timing. I try to at least keep up with the AI and not letting it run away with too much of an advantage on module count, and so far it has been working much better for me.

[Bigheaded]

well, that explains immediately why you're struggling with hacker arrays, as they are a pretty good and direct counter to what you're doing.

Definitly. I will pay more attention to that in the future. To be honest i don't even look at what it costs to make the module, i just take whatever is cheaper from the cost summary, without looking at the unit cost. My logic is that if it's cheaper, then i can just buy it and sell the things that are worth more. No need to worry about producing what the module needs in ressource since it all burns down to money in the end.

I say a lot about producing steel, this is because expansion needs this for fast hq's. the colony usually needs it to expand, so why not mass produce it? any less than 4 steel in campaign early on is generally not good. get a second iron tile if needed (costs nothing to make a metal mill, convert it into something else later)

If steel is "expensive" then all the better ;)

[DrakenKin]

Yes i like specialization, however lately and on the map i needed help with i was doing a bit of everything, not specializing or monopolizing so that wasn't the direct cause.

Yep I will try to focus more on steel, what you are saying makes sens.

I guess the issue is not when steel is expensive, but when it is cheap. Those moments you wish you had extra water or silicon/carbon etc mines. But it makes sens that it would never be a waste to make a lot of steel early.

[DrakenKin]

Oooookkk this is the situation i keep running into... sigh

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1349878942

All prices crashed. All but the raw materials like silicon and carbon. I am barely hanging on with my 4 solar condensers selling raw carbon and my 2 low silicons. Everything else is ♥♥♥♥.

The odd thing is the map has no carbon at all, and only 3 silicon mines that i was able to secure (they were nuked but still making decent money).

In these kind of situations i have a lot of room, like the 7 tiles honeycomb setup i have near my base but i have no idea what to put there. Everything turns offline because it loses money, from farms, to reactors, to all other buildings.

I guess nothing else to do if i lose this but restart and dedicate more claims to solar condensers in prevision of the late game price crash?

[DrakenKin]

I ended up winning it, bought 2 more claims at 20k and 30k and made more solar condenser, somehow that gave me enough to get the edge i needed.

[Bigheaded]

you are aware that for a colony to use a habitat and a workshop, they need to be bought 1:1?
You can spam buy a particular workshop then work on habitats later, but if you don't get the habitats then the workshops remain inactive.This is shown reasonably clearly with the bar graph and it states the number of active workshops/habitats underneath
Was trying to figure out why food was so dead and ye, tonnes of habitats and very few workshops.


I very rarely get your scenario as i very rarely work on low resource maps, just easier to have a normal game. I've monopolised a few games and that can be fun though

[DrakenKin]

Yes I am aware. In this case i bought habitats still because :

1. They were MUCH cheaper than everything else, i am talking 8k to 12k cheaper because i had stockpiled aluminum while nobody was making the high end products. If it was a 2k difference or even 4k i would have, but for such a big difference i just wanted to win the map.

2. For most of the game i was barely keeping up with the AI, so making cheaper purchases to win was more important than getting that food boost or extra money for the campaign.

The food was also dead because there were 2 robotics in the game, so not many users for food.

And yes i might need to start focusing on high ressources maps and have normal games. It is possible i am going too much off the path by trying to have monopolies.