Help me understand the hate

[Bifinho d'Atum]

I'm honestly curious to know why and from where is all the hate coming? Summarize it for me please.

I had a lvl 95 Spark Archmage (with 200k dps) last league and yes, is useless now, even so that i deleted the char. Didn't complaint even once, it was in fact OP and anti-fun at some point.

Is the game hard now? Easier? Cause tbh im killing bosses way faster now (maybe we all know the game core at this point).

But whats the real problem with the new patch? The Nerfs? The slow pace?

We got a new league wich means a new economy wich for me is one of the worst things about the game alongside with the "crafting" system, but nothing that an auction house can't resolve if GGG are willing to do that.
New mechanics, class (wich i tried and hate), gems, bosses, thigns to do, etc.

So yeah...

Not here to farming points. Im genuinely curious to that what's REALLY happening.

Thanks

[QuipSilver]

@Naamtar @Banana

Yeah man, those are really good points to be honest. I'm not at Maps yet so my experience vs those in Maps are completely different.

Naamtar, you seem like someone with a lot of experience with PoE and GGG so your insight is valuable to them, hopefully you give them feedback on issues you spot while playing the endgame. We need folks like you showing them where they f*ck up and thoughts on how to fix it.

Banana, I also see folks in the chat having a total blast with the game even after the patch, and every so often I see someone coming in with the "PoE2 bad" comments, and everyone clowns on them. I expect every patch will means I'll need to rethink how I play and relearn certain things. But then again, while this game is in EA, I imagine a lot of the mechanics we use will go through tons of substantial changes, so what I know now will be functionally useless a month from now.

The best we can do is provide feedback that GGG can use, plus this game blew up big time compared to PoE1, so we're gonna get just as much ridiculous people as ARPG-loving people. This game feels drastically different to PoE1, so I imagine a lot of strong PoE1 playstyles aren't gonna translate well to this game.

[Ichiritzu]

Bending over for a company that don't even know who tf you are is cringe. Do better.

[QuipSilver]

Being supportive of a company that is trying to make the best ARPG for it's users, despite any missteps being responded to with pure vitriol and insults. I can think of worse injustices.

[serotoninpack]

Hate is the secondary effect of hype; if the product hyped does not live up to the expectations.

[Poyzo]

Game is TOO easy. Not to mention a small, vocal minority of players are demanding GGG to make the game even easier. Minion players, easiest class to play, are demanding GGG to give minions more damage and health. Guess what? In the recent patch they did! GGG catering to the casual audience rather than what made PoE1 great.

[Machin Shin]

they chnnages so much but nothing important, and what the changed is useless

[Naamtar]

Originally posted by QuipSilver:

@Naamtar @Banana

Yeah man, those are really good points to be honest. I'm not at Maps yet so my experience vs those in Maps are completely different.

Naamtar, you seem like someone with a lot of experience with PoE and GGG so your insight is valuable to them, hopefully you give them feedback on issues you spot while playing the endgame. We need folks like you showing them where they f*ck up and thoughts on how to fix it.

Banana, I also see folks in the chat having a total blast with the game even after the patch, and every so often I see someone coming in with the "PoE2 bad" comments, and everyone clowns on them. I expect every patch will means I'll need to rethink how I play and relearn certain things. But then again, while this game is in EA, I imagine a lot of the mechanics we use will go through tons of substantial changes, so what I know now will be functionally useless a month from now.

The best we can do is provide feedback that GGG can use, plus this game blew up big time compared to PoE1, so we're gonna get just as much ridiculous people as ARPG-loving people. This game feels drastically different to PoE1, so I imagine a lot of strong PoE1 playstyles aren't gonna translate well to this game.

Honestly man, I've worked on other games helping developers balance the content behind the scenes.

They don't really listen to the overwhelming majority of players. They hand pick people they know are very competent in their game and throw them in a group chat somewhere to discuss this stuff - and even then a lot of their decisions based on those discussions aren't in line with the opinions of the players. A lot of it is to try and get ahead of exploits, bugs, "clever use of game mechanics" that create unintended game flow, etc.

The rest of the changes are just based on metric data.

This has been the reality of game development for a long, long, long time now. It's very rare to find developers of games this popular that let random individual feedback on forums influence their decisions.

[SkaldedDawg]

0.20 really hit my performance. I have an actual modern gaming PC with components that aren't yet a year old. It made me get lag and FPS stuttering. I've been essentially trouble free except for the new season patch. So, I hope the mystery download today will fix my game-play later today.

[Naamtar]

Originally posted by SkaldedDawg:

0.20 really hit my performance. I have an actual modern gaming PC with components that aren't yet a year old. It made me get lag and FPS stuttering. I've been essentially trouble free except for the new season patch. So, I hope the mystery download today will fix my game-play later today.

If you aren't on a 5000 series GPU (assuming you use NVIDIA) try rolling the driver back to 566.36

[Ondrugs]

TBH in most terms I think the bosses are not the problem. Not at all. The challenge could be fair.

I try to be as objective as possible while I would like to share my personal experiences.
- Necro level 35
- Huntress level 15

One of the problem is the reverse in loot.
Before the release of EA they said something like "If you don't find enough exalts or something like 10 in the first act, we are doing something wrong". They changed that after EA release and after they saw they did something wrong.
But now it got reversed again and the loot is horendous. I am in act 3 and got so far 3 exalts and a few regals. Up to the end of act 1 I didn't saw 1 belt drop, I had my first charm and belt in act 2. I am now with my necro in act 3 and still wearing mostly blue items, cause I had no choice.

So if someone is unlucky like in my example they will struggle to even get the right gear/weapons and skills to play what they'd like to play.


Another Problem is the gold itself.
From the first EA release pretty anyone should know that we are supposed to check vendors more frequent cause they could have good weapons. Meanwhile I need to salvage items to get actual currency and to be able to improve my current items, with sockets, to make them magic or even rare in hopes to get good modifiers. So I was even with a wide range of knowledge for this game and PoE 1 at the constant struggle and I am still not able to even think about buying items since they cost severl thousands of gold. There was once an item that seemed promising which would have cost me like 9k gold. I get that much prolly in 1 whole act...

Then People want to try stuff with new ascendancies or skills and skill trees and then we pay like 8-12k per ascendancy point and also several hundred for a normal point. That makes no sense, taking in account what I just described.


The next problem regards Necromancers
Yea in EA the minions were good and they allowed us to cross the campaign fairly easy, even if they still not overperformed.
My skill tree is leaned fully into minions since I wanted to play that and I am normally just someone who not surrenders fast. But minions are literally useless and do absolutely nothing.
The main minion "Skeleton Warriors" was completely removed from the game and can only be obtained by wielding sceptres. They are the only minions which could be used as meat shields for early levels up to mid game. 5 of them is required to kill 1 white enemy. If a blue (magic) pack spawns they got literally annihilated in one swoop, so we are forced to waste 1 support gem for "last grasp" which lets our minions not die for 4 seconds or something like that. So the minions could actually deal also damage, which they had none and which they have now even less off.

Getting to fight 1-2 rare monsters but is not a rare occassion, there are literally set points were you have to at least encounter 2 of them which most often come with burning ground, area of effect bombardements or other effects which instantly destroy your army of minions.

My minions cause I didn't want to give up on them are now at level 10, I can summon 9 and they have 50% phys damage reduction, around 1200 life, 80% ele res, 30-40% chaos res and reg 3% of their life per second... At least they die not instant anymore, but they are pretty fast deleted. Therefore I am planning on respeccing some of the defenses for them and just stacking life for minion instability on them.

But here is the clue. I am unable to respec it, since I don't have the gold and the really funny part is, that ED/C without any investement just outperforms minions completely. Boss damage wise as much as clear wise. And that is something which makes no sense at all.

As much as to give necromancers a support gem that drains 100% of your life from minion to boost your spells, while minions need at least level 12 or more to actual get more life as the player and to make the early recommended support gem useable...

Yet I also encountered some nasty bug at the collossus fight in act 2 which forced me to repeat the fight several times since he somehow lost his hit box always around 25% of his life. My minions and I weren't able to hit or affect it anymore. At this time he also normally spams us regularly with his minions which I thought could be used to transfer ED via contagion onto him, but it didn't work either. So I had to fight him around 10 times tediously over and over until I eventually made something different which not removed his hit box.


If and I doubt there aren't any other classes which felt similar since they got all nerfed to oblivion, I can surely understand why they are outraged.


And tbh, I am okay with having a challnege in fights, but most of the fights are merely running in a circle and dodging one shot abilities. But there is my biggest problem. If we are lucky enough to get movement speed from any source, like rangers/huntress get them right at start of their tree and not even a little, all these fights getting far more trivial, since dodge rolls are bound to your movement speed and therefore your roll is faster and you move further. But I still in act 3 got not once movement speed boots offered in the vendors and I still haven't found any from loot, yet I still struggle to get some and try using currency on boots to get at least some. And not the Uniques are a problem, mostly rare monsters are and their new boosted minions which are harder as the bosses/uniques. But since people cannot equip themselves properly even with overfarming areas or getting 2 or 3 levels above the area which is a torture already, they also struggle on uniques.

But if I mostly get life regen and or thorn damage as mods on my items if I try to make them myself and I laready struggle with getting rare items to sell for gold or regal orbs it is a lost undertaking which is doomed right from the start. Having no movement speed at all makes the act 2 boss a real mess, cause some of his attacks getting really really hard to dodge and are already pretty tough timed.

Getting called names for problems people have and being made fun of by ignorant people which were somehow luckier or just crazily skilled doesn't help at all.

I get that many complain about non-sense like dcs or other weird stuff, I don't even want to listen to. Server dcs can be countered by switching merely realms in the login screen for most.


I also don't say that I am a Pro or that I am a noob. But I am fairly skilled and have a great knowledge about both games, simply cause I loved PoE 1 for over a decade now and summarized over 20.000 hours in it as much as I already have stacked around 600 - 700 hours in PoE 2 again. I know how to go if something doesn't work out or to help myself as much as what people call prolly little tricks to improve characters good or rely on different abilities to get the job done. But I am simply annoyed, since it feels more of an Ruthless adaption as something genuine and that they just went 180° with already reversed false decisions.... I don't understand them.

[Chiryuu]

Originally posted by Ondrugs:

TBH in most terms I think the bosses are not the problem. Not at all. The challenge could be fair.

I try to be as objective as possible while I would like to share my personal experiences.
- Necro level 35
- Huntress level 15

One of the problem is the reverse in loot.
Before the release of EA they said something like "If you don't find enough exalts or something like 10 in the first act, we are doing something wrong". They changed that after EA release and after they saw they did something wrong.
But now it got reversed again and the loot is horendous. I am in act 3 and got so far 3 exalts and a few regals. Up to the end of act 1 I didn't saw 1 belt drop, I had my first charm and belt in act 2. I am now with my necro in act 3 and still wearing mostly blue items, cause I had no choice.

So if someone is unlucky like in my example they will struggle to even get the right gear/weapons and skills to play what they'd like to play.


Another Problem is the gold itself.
From the first EA release pretty anyone should know that we are supposed to check vendors more frequent cause they could have good weapons. Meanwhile I need to salvage items to get actual currency and to be able to improve my current items, with sockets, to make them magic or even rare in hopes to get good modifiers. So I was even with a wide range of knowledge for this game and PoE 1 at the constant struggle and I am still not able to even think about buying items since they cost severl thousands of gold. There was once an item that seemed promising which would have cost me like 9k gold. I get that much prolly in 1 whole act...

Then People want to try stuff with new ascendancies or skills and skill trees and then we pay like 8-12k per ascendancy point and also several hundred for a normal point. That makes no sense, taking in account what I just described.


The next problem regards Necromancers
Yea in EA the minions were good and they allowed us to cross the campaign fairly easy, even if they still not overperformed.
My skill tree is leaned fully into minions since I wanted to play that and I am normally just someone who surrenders fast. But minions are literally useless and do absolutely nothing.
The main minion "Skeleton Warriors" was completely removed from the game and can only be obtained by wielding sceptres. They are the only minions which could be used as meat shields for early levels up to mid game. 5 of them is required to kill 1 white enemy. If a blue (magic) pack spawns they got literally annihilated in one swoop, so we are forced to waste 1 support gem for "last grasp" which lets our minions not die for 4 seconds or something like that. So the minions could actually deal also damage, which they had none and which they have now even less off.

Getting to fight 1-2 rare monsters but is not a rare occassion, there are literally set points were you have to at least encounter 2 of them which most often come with burning ground, area of effect bombardements or other effects which instantly destroy your army of minions.

My minions cause I didn't want to give up on them are now at level 10, I can summon 9 and they have 50% phys damage reduction, around 1200 life, 80% ele res, 30-40% chaos res and reg 3% of their life per second... At least they die not instant anymore, but they are pretty fast deleted. Therefore I am planning on respeccing some of the defenses for them and just stacking life for minion instability on them.

But here is the clue. I am unable to respec it, since I don't have the gold and the really funny part is, that ED/C without any investement just outperforms minions completely. Boss damage wise as much as clear wise. And that is something which makes no sense at all.

As much as to give necromancers a support gem that drains 100% of your life from minion to boost your spells, while minions need at least level 12 or more to actual get more life as the player and to make the early recommended support gem useable...

Yet I also encountered some nasty bug at the collossus fight in act 2 which forced me to repeat the fight several times since he somehow lost his hit box always around 25% of his life. My minions and I weren't able to hit or affect it anymore. At this time he also normally spams us regularly with his minions which I thought could be used to transfer ED via contagion onto him, but it didn't work either. So I had to fight him around 10 times tediously over and over until I eventually made something different which not removed his hit box.


If and I doubt there aren't any other classes which felt similar since they got all nerfed to oblivion, I can surely understand why they are outraged.


And tbh, I am okay with having a challnege in fights, but most of the fights are merely running in a circle and dodging one shot abilities. But there is my biggest problem. If we are lucky enough to get movement speed from any source, like rangers/huntress get them right at start of their tree and not even a little, all these fights getting far more trivial, since dodge rolls are bound to your movement speed and therefore your roll is faster and you move further. But I still in act 3 got not once movement speed boots offered in the vendors and I still haven't found any from loot, yet I still struggle to get some and try using currency on boots to get at least some. And not the Uniques are a problem, mostly rare monsters are and their new boosted minions which are harder as the bosses/uniques. But since people cannot equip themselves properly even with overfarming areas or getting 2 or 3 levels above the area which is a torture already, they also struggle on uniques.

But if I mostly get life regen and or thorn damage and I laready struggle with getting rare items to sell for gold or regal orbs it is a lost undertaking which is doomed right from the start. Having no movement speed at all makes the act 2 boss a real mess, cause some of his attacks getting really really hard to dodge and are already pretty tough timed.

It's a very long post, but I agree that game sucks IN MANY PLACES at the moment (even though I had fun playing new season).

[Ondrugs]

Originally posted by Chiryuu:

Originally posted by Ondrugs:

TBH in most terms I think the bosses are not the problem. Not at all. The challenge could be fair.

I try to be as objective as possible while I would like to share my personal experiences.
- Necro level 35
- Huntress level 15

One of the problem is the reverse in loot.
Before the release of EA they said something like "If you don't find enough exalts or something like 10 in the first act, we are doing something wrong". They changed that after EA release and after they saw they did something wrong.
But now it got reversed again and the loot is horendous. I am in act 3 and got so far 3 exalts and a few regals. Up to the end of act 1 I didn't saw 1 belt drop, I had my first charm and belt in act 2. I am now with my necro in act 3 and still wearing mostly blue items, cause I had no choice.

So if someone is unlucky like in my example they will struggle to even get the right gear/weapons and skills to play what they'd like to play.


Another Problem is the gold itself.
From the first EA release pretty anyone should know that we are supposed to check vendors more frequent cause they could have good weapons. Meanwhile I need to salvage items to get actual currency and to be able to improve my current items, with sockets, to make them magic or even rare in hopes to get good modifiers. So I was even with a wide range of knowledge for this game and PoE 1 at the constant struggle and I am still not able to even think about buying items since they cost severl thousands of gold. There was once an item that seemed promising which would have cost me like 9k gold. I get that much prolly in 1 whole act...

Then People want to try stuff with new ascendancies or skills and skill trees and then we pay like 8-12k per ascendancy point and also several hundred for a normal point. That makes no sense, taking in account what I just described.


The next problem regards Necromancers
Yea in EA the minions were good and they allowed us to cross the campaign fairly easy, even if they still not overperformed.
My skill tree is leaned fully into minions since I wanted to play that and I am normally just someone who surrenders fast. But minions are literally useless and do absolutely nothing.
The main minion "Skeleton Warriors" was completely removed from the game and can only be obtained by wielding sceptres. They are the only minions which could be used as meat shields for early levels up to mid game. 5 of them is required to kill 1 white enemy. If a blue (magic) pack spawns they got literally annihilated in one swoop, so we are forced to waste 1 support gem for "last grasp" which lets our minions not die for 4 seconds or something like that. So the minions could actually deal also damage, which they had none and which they have now even less off.

Getting to fight 1-2 rare monsters but is not a rare occassion, there are literally set points were you have to at least encounter 2 of them which most often come with burning ground, area of effect bombardements or other effects which instantly destroy your army of minions.

My minions cause I didn't want to give up on them are now at level 10, I can summon 9 and they have 50% phys damage reduction, around 1200 life, 80% ele res, 30-40% chaos res and reg 3% of their life per second... At least they die not instant anymore, but they are pretty fast deleted. Therefore I am planning on respeccing some of the defenses for them and just stacking life for minion instability on them.

But here is the clue. I am unable to respec it, since I don't have the gold and the really funny part is, that ED/C without any investement just outperforms minions completely. Boss damage wise as much as clear wise. And that is something which makes no sense at all.

As much as to give necromancers a support gem that drains 100% of your life from minion to boost your spells, while minions need at least level 12 or more to actual get more life as the player and to make the early recommended support gem useable...

Yet I also encountered some nasty bug at the collossus fight in act 2 which forced me to repeat the fight several times since he somehow lost his hit box always around 25% of his life. My minions and I weren't able to hit or affect it anymore. At this time he also normally spams us regularly with his minions which I thought could be used to transfer ED via contagion onto him, but it didn't work either. So I had to fight him around 10 times tediously over and over until I eventually made something different which not removed his hit box.


If and I doubt there aren't any other classes which felt similar since they got all nerfed to oblivion, I can surely understand why they are outraged.


And tbh, I am okay with having a challnege in fights, but most of the fights are merely running in a circle and dodging one shot abilities. But there is my biggest problem. If we are lucky enough to get movement speed from any source, like rangers/huntress get them right at start of their tree and not even a little, all these fights getting far more trivial, since dodge rolls are bound to your movement speed and therefore your roll is faster and you move further. But I still in act 3 got not once movement speed boots offered in the vendors and I still haven't found any from loot, yet I still struggle to get some and try using currency on boots to get at least some. And not the Uniques are a problem, mostly rare monsters are and their new boosted minions which are harder as the bosses/uniques. But since people cannot equip themselves properly even with overfarming areas or getting 2 or 3 levels above the area which is a torture already, they also struggle on uniques.

But if I mostly get life regen and or thorn damage and I laready struggle with getting rare items to sell for gold or regal orbs it is a lost undertaking which is doomed right from the start. Having no movement speed at all makes the act 2 boss a real mess, cause some of his attacks getting really really hard to dodge and are already pretty tough timed.

It's a very long post, but I agree that game sucks IN MANY PLACES at the moment (even though I had fun playing new season).

It prolly can be enjoyable. Maybe with a bit more luck on my side I would have enjoyed it also more. But I would still be mad about them having the loot reversed after they patched it already once and admitted that they made a mistake there to make it just worse now.

As much as for destroying the balance in the game completely now. Especially in early levels and not giving the possibility to experiment with stuff if it is not working as it should.

[Ondrugs]

Originally posted by Chiryuu:

It's a very long post, but I agree that game sucks IN MANY PLACES at the moment (even though I had fun playing new season).

I just did a restart as a huntress and there are world between the difficulty. It was literally a breeze through act 1,... there was only once a rare moster which was kinda annoying but besides that, it was a literal joke.

Did use Rake, Spear field and the throwing spear.... spear field alone could handle most easily, cause it just deals 300% more damage if its spears linger for 0.5 sec in the ground which seriously not hard to accomplish if the enmies are slowed af, giving them then rake and getting the additional bonusses for melee/proj damage for just using the other is insane.

Besides that it feels like a tank, just to parry once or twice in a while and evading most other stuff. Pretty much the same as it felt in EA release when the upper part of the tree was just outperforming the lower part with ease.

[RedTrustfactor]

I'm so glad I have so much duped currency, it makes the game so much easier. I'm loving it .20 is best patch.

[XeroDragonlord]

Originally posted by Midra, Lord of Frenzied Flame:

Originally posted by Rager:

Even if I showed you. You will just go ditch anyway.

As I said.

Ziz, Raxx, Ds_lilly Even Quinn69 have all said that this is the worse state the game has been in, it is not fun and tedious. yet some how people who are better than you are wrong?

You are just making yourself look bad. Go away.

My favorite streamers said so, so it must be true LOL.

I'm not going anywhere, link your POE account so we can check which of ur character is at maps.

But you won't link it bc you are a little lying kid. NO ONE is taking you seriously lil bro

I 100% agree. I enjoy the game, it has the old diablo 2 feel, but new. Yeah there are flaws, but every game has those. I am so sick of this new "gaming" age.. I say gaming in qoutes because in reality they are zombies, they only play what their streaming overlords tell them. it sickens me. If you dont like the game, dont play it, if you like it, continue to enjoy it. It called CHOICE! Keep going GGG, for those of us that like the game, we will continue to play it!