For those unhappy with the new camera change

[Casual_Alien]

According to the devs on discord :

"There is an old beta you can use to live in the past.
No there will not be a toggle for old style. Never."

So ask as much as you like, post as many heartfelt pleas for change as you want, make as many well thought out arguments as you can come up with - they have made it clear they do not particularly care on your opinion regarding this change.

Really, it doesn't even matter how bad or good the new camera is. More than a few people are saying it's fine, or that it is not so bad to get used to, and so on. Perhaps there are very good engine-related reasons this change should happen too, for future improvements?

But if this is how the devs respond to a veritable flood of players both old and new saying 'hey this makes the game a lot less fun! can we at least have an option to change it back?' then every urge I had to hop back into the game and make boats is just gone.

[Sir Rattus]

Don't be such a drama queen. It's just a camera. Sure, it's rough around the edges, but it's still an improvement. Just learn the new system, it's not rocket science.

[gFreak696]

Dev too proud to admit failure.
After so many brain-dead "improvements", it's no surprise anymore.

[Creatures Lie Here]

iirc the camera had to change for technical reasons, yeah. Sometimes the way that a camera is programmed to work in video games is more or less a "series of cheats" as opposed to "the best way to program it to do the things you need it to for the game you're making". This is an indie dev studio, so I'd be shocked if they didn't have to make compromises across the board to ship the game 4 years ago, including how janky the camera was or wasn't code-wise.

I honestly didn't buy the game until this year's sale, so I have no experience with the old system. I do have to admit though, the new one has been a pain to work with in the tutorials so far, mostly because build mode's controls are relative to where the camera is pointing instead of being fixed. If they changed this and made the UI a little less beta-pilled in design, then I think things would be great. But I lack the frame of reference of vets. All that I know is that the old camera seems a bit janky and made watching FtD videos more painful.

[RipoffPingu]

Originally posted by gFreak696:

Dev too proud to admit failure.
After so many brain-dead "improvements", it's no surprise anymore.

what "brain dead improvements" are you talking about exactly? camera update is fine and within the past two years the new weapon systems are pretty fun to play with

[Red Imperator]

Originally posted by RipoffPingu:

Originally posted by gFreak696:

Dev too proud to admit failure.
After so many brain-dead "improvements", it's no surprise anymore.

what "brain dead improvements" are you talking about exactly? camera update is fine and within the past two years the new weapon systems are pretty fun to play with

I'd say the changes to shields are top of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ but that is just my opinion.

[gFreak696]

Originally posted by RipoffPingu:

Originally posted by gFreak696:

Dev too proud to admit failure.
After so many brain-dead "improvements", it's no surprise anymore.

what "brain dead improvements" are you talking about exactly? camera update is fine and within the past two years the new weapon systems are pretty fun to play with

Only two? In the nine years I've played, I've seen the old art style be ditched for a bland simplification, the five unique resources reduced to "material". localised resources became mandatory (just like the busted camera), the old campaign was scrapped, the countless nerfs to everything that dares to be effective, the ugly new models for AI, Fuel Engines and the drastic darkening of missile parts. Over such a long time, the only saving grace is that sometimes the frame rate is a little higher than it used to be.

[RipoffPingu]

Originally posted by gFreak696:

Originally posted by RipoffPingu:

what "brain dead improvements" are you talking about exactly? camera update is fine and within the past two years the new weapon systems are pretty fun to play with

Only two? In the nine years I've played, I've seen the old art style be ditched for a bland simplification, the five unique resources reduced to "material". localised resources became mandatory (just like the busted camera), the old campaign was scrapped, the countless nerfs to everything that dares to be effective, the ugly new models for AI, Fuel Engines and the drastic darkening of missile parts. Over such a long time, the only saving grace is that sometimes the frame rate is a little higher than it used to be.

from the depths used to have some more complex logistics, but it wasn't really that complicated at the same time, leaving it in a bad spot - too complicated for casual players, but too simplified for people looking for logistical management. so it makes sense the devs chose to simplify the logistics, as other games do logistical autism better anyways (see: aurora 4x) so this is just a smart business move while also helping the community.

as for the old artstyle being replaced - graphics aren't particularly relevant for this game, and honestly, the more simplified graphics look better anyways. if you want graphics in a craft building game, i'd recommend looking elsewhere.

the only things i've seen being nerfed or reworked are things that are either blatantly overpowered and overly binary interactions - custom cannons and lasers against smoke/smokeless targets respectively. can't really think of any other questionable balance changes.

you can still use the old models if you prefer them via decorations, but frankly, they don't really matter that much - both of them look good, and this is for both the AI and fuel engine block remodels.

and i would say this game has a bigger saving grace than a "slightly higher frame rate sometimes" - that being from the depths honestly being the single best game on the market for craft building. nothing else has keyboard building, everything else performs worse and has less creative freedom (the absolute closest i've seen to that is roblox-based craft building games, which... lol).

game is still amazing - good UI, good graphics, great performance, amazing creative potential, very good damage model, etc.. if you want a game to serve your logistics autism, i recommend aurora 4x - its what i use to sate the same desire, and its free too :P

[Dino]

I´ve been saying the developers are quirky snowflakes who just have a need to prove a point they know better and everyone else is wrong. Guess that goes odd with the game going half off price.

[Eggnog98]

I would like to point out on Discord that the camera update was not complete in the way that was intended and they are going to be addressing the issue of moving then camera and ship at the same time. If true then one of the biggest issues most of us have had will be fixed. Just revert to previous update until then. Arguing over something that is going to be changed it pointless now.

[2003 G Grievous]

The devs have always benn stubborn and rude. When I asked when they finally update the ugly ass UI I got about twenty lines that boiled down to: "No ♥♥♥♥ you". So yeah. Just try to adapt and enjoy the game like I did.

[Matt]

The big thing is, learning is work. People want to pop in to their old game and keep playing it. the new camera change was jarring to say the least. I've been playing since before there were tutorials, and this is the first time I've really needed one.

The new controls just don't seem natural because I've been using the old controls for a decade.

[From The Depths]

What are the specific issues you are having with the new camera? Are there some keyboard shortcuts or transitions or behaviours you'd like to see added/removed/changed? I thought the ability to swap quickly between vehicles, an orbit based control camera with multiple saveable origins and making the avatar an optional tool rather than mandatory would be widely received as sensible and in keeping with other more user friendly games. I'm going to address the current toggle between driving and camera controls and allow players who want to use the LHS of the keyboard for camera and the RHS for driving (as per historic ftd) to continue to do so but honestly I don't see that as being very important given we now have multiple configurable camera positions on a craft and as humans we cannot have two hands on the keyboard and one on the mouse simultaneously. To those that find the staff rude I'm sorry to hear that. Which staff in particular if you don't mind me asking?

[From The Depths]

As for toggling the old style: the old style is not simply a key bind the old style is "player IS avatar" and the new style is merged with a change where avatar is optional. The old controls were all avatar-relative (except for the free cam accessed by double tapping E). The new ones are designed to be construct-relative. It was actually a monumental effort to decouple the "player" from the avatar. I'd much rather fix the issues you're having with the new system than consider the impossible/soul destroying task of trying to hack in the old system alongside the new system. So I'm not saying I'll never put in a toggle for the old system because I'm stubborn I'm saying it because I don't have a spare 6 months to hack the game apart yet again and because I fundamentally don't think a boat building game / global domination campaign should be centered around a little robot whose involvement in driving/firing/building/camera placement hinders rather than helps the game.

[Rayji]

Ultimately you're the dev, but when you've built a really dedicated community who have mastered the system and built some incredible things, only to suddenly remove the system they're used to and more or less say "suck it up", There will always be complaints.
I honestly think that people just have to get used to it, but of course they are allowed to dislike the new system.

[Red Imperator]

Originally posted by From The Depths:

What are the specific issues you are having with the new camera? Are there some keyboard shortcuts or transitions or behaviours you'd like to see added/removed/changed? I thought the ability to swap quickly between vehicles, an orbit based control camera with multiple saveable origins and making the avatar an optional tool rather than mandatory would be widely received as sensible and in keeping with other more user friendly games. I'm going to address the current toggle between driving and camera controls and allow players who want to use the LHS of the keyboard for camera and the RHS for driving (as per historic ftd) to continue to do so but honestly I don't see that as being very important given we now have multiple configurable camera positions on a craft and as humans we cannot have two hands on the keyboard and one on the mouse simultaneously. To those that find the staff rude I'm sorry to hear that. Which staff in particular if you don't mind me asking?

I want a toggle for the old style.