Are snipers nerfed?

[Regen7]

It seems like my snipers literally cannot hit anything now, usaully have a ~20% chance on everything highest being ~50%.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Yes. Extremely hard.

First, I always relied on cover destruction to make sure my snipers got good shots and usually kills about every single shot they took in vanilla Xcom. You can't do that anymore, _at all_, in LW2.

Second, they don't start with a pistol anymore. They got that holotargetting crap, which is only remotely useful if you take the perks for it. You can always manually equip a pistol instead of the holotargetting system in the loadout tho and there is a lot of pistol upgrades in the training center.

Third, they don't have access to squad sight reaction shots readily at level 2 like they used to in vanilla. This mean that you will never want to overwatch with your sniper unless you get that perk later on, which IMHO underpower the sniper again.

My advice is that your sniper should be the first to get access to mods for his weapon. I'd go with a scope which upgrade the % chance to hit, upgraded clip size because otherwise you're forced to waste a turn every 3 shots and then a stock which allow you to steady hand on the turn you single move or reload so that way you don't completely lose that turn if you are not in a position to use your holotargetting system in a meaningful way.

Also I've settled down to shooting at the best target of opportunity with my sniper instead of shooting to actually hit an important target behind cover instead, like I often used to do in vanilla. Killing a lower enemy in one shot is still useful for your squad as a whole in the sense that the rest of your squad don't have to waste time and can advance on the jucier targets. The sniper rifle still have decently high damage in comparison to the rifles.

[Sarcastro]

Once they get a few levels I have found, placed properly and modded correctly, targets even in high cover will be an 85% chance. Steady weapon, higher ground, depth perception aren't hard to get and make them a kill a round beast able to get the back row targets that otherwise can be a pain.

Though on some timed missions they can be relegated to be the best one to carry the unconcious enemy VIP.

[SpiderKhan]

They're weaker but still definitely usable. Lots of ways to make a death from above sniper work especially with stocks + scopes and so on. Holotargetting is also amazing when you start to get some of the perks for it (even just rapid targeting) and combining that with phantom allowing you to holotarget and scout without ever breaking stealth whilst still targeting everything in a battle,
Meaning they're actually a better scout than shinobis in that way (shinobis have to break concealment to help in battle minus medkits. Though they have a lot of skills that help their straight stealth over the sniper)

But yeah they're far from the pod wiping kill zone + serial murder gods from vanilla.

[xmd1997]

Whats the average aim stat of your snipers? LW2 has "Not created equally" on by default so you may just have squaddie snipers with low aim stats. Personally I always spec my sharpshooters on the holotargeting build if they have 75 aim and above, anything below and I just give them snap shot.

[Coup d' oeil]

no more snap shot with death from above. Face off gone. I'd say it looks that way.

But then again I Havent finished the latest LW 2 campaign yet so I dont know what the AWC can return.

Shinobi's Prolly next. I never relied on them so much ever.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

The problem I have with snipers as scouts is that they always were the backbone of my power projection in vanilla Xcom 2. I always planned around them and not the other way around. I just can't wrap my head about turning a sniper into a full scout, the Shinobi class in LW2 do that _so_ much better and can zip thru half the map to go assist somewhere else while concealed if need be.

Also, if you are so desperately in need of holotargetting then you might have a bigger problem in general. It doesn't provide that much more aim and it's a solo target ability... Again I hardly see the point.

So back to wanting my Sniper to be the clutch power house... Which I don't see happening in LW2 either unless you get lucky in the AWC training.

Right now I'm experimenting with forgoing holotargetting perks altogether and training my snipers as officers that I plan to use with pistols as a complement to the sniper rifle, without snap shot.

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Regen752:

It seems like my snipers literally cannot hit anything now, usaully have a ~20% chance on everything highest being ~50%.

Yes Sniper's are weakend
But they are still high octain death dealer's in the highest ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ caliber having the highest aim incress of all classes
A skill that compleatly negate's squad sight aim penalties
And depending on how you build them
Can easily deal the most damage of any class in the game

having 4 perks that give them extra damage
(VPT, Alpha mike foxtrot, Lethal, Hunter's instinct)
Oh and VPT give's +3 damage IIRC at the max rank holo targeter

That means with ALL THOES DAMAGE BUFF'S
you are dealing +10 damage meaing they can deal with max equipment 20+ damage

now you could argue that sniper with VPT couldn't do that much because they are forced to end there turn

I'd argue you could just bring a holo targeing scout sniper which is also EXTREAMLY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ BROKEN

Sniper's are easily nerfed early game
later game they are just Destroyer of world's who while they won't solo entier maps Will definitally be super powerful

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Also, if you are so desperately in need of holotargetting then you might have a bigger problem in general. It doesn't provide that much more aim and it's a solo target ability... Again I hardly see the point.

OK so
You apprently Havn't even looked at the holo targeting tree
or you know the upgrades to the holo targeter

which give
+10,+15, and +20 aim

Rapid targeting let's you mark up to 3 targets in one turn and that's just the first perk you have

Hi-def holo which Let's you critical hit enemies

independent tracking which applys the Holo targeting bonus For 2 turns

Vital point targeting which incresses all your damage against an enemy by 1,2 or 3 depending on the holo targeter

Multi targeting which .... what's this
"You may holo target MULTIPLE ENEMIES "

meaning you can mark entier unaware pod's of enemies for your other soldier's to pick off with incressed damage and critical hit chance
And it work's with your rapid targeting
meaning you can mark several enemies in a turn


Not to mention Over all Gunner's Do far more damage than Sniper's unless you specifically spec your sniper to take all the damage based perk's in which case they will need support from there team mates to make the most out of the damage.

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

So back to wanting my Sniper to be the clutch power house... Which I don't see happening in LW2 either unless you get lucky in the AWC training.

I mean 2nd most damaging class in the game
and the most accurate with the most reliable Multi-kill Ability in the game

TOTALLY NOT GONNA BE A CLUTCH POWERHOUSE

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Right now I'm experimenting with forgoing holotargetting perks altogether and training my snipers as officers that I plan to use with pistols as a complement to the sniper rifle, without snap shot.

Sniper's are terrible Officer's because they will never be in command range for the officer's better abilites.

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Coup d' oeil:

no more snap shot with death from above. Face off gone. I'd say it looks that way.

But then again I Havent finished the latest LW 2 campaign yet so I dont know what the AWC can return.

Shinobi's Prolly next. I never relied on them so much ever.

The funny thing about this comment is
Shinobi's were nerfed before the release of the game due to how badly one of the play testers broke the game

[Coup d' oeil]

Originally posted by Jesterofgames7712:

Originally posted by Coup d' oeil:

no more snap shot with death from above. Face off gone. I'd say it looks that way.

But then again I Havent finished the latest LW 2 campaign yet so I dont know what the AWC can return.

Shinobi's Prolly next. I never relied on them so much ever.

The funny thing about this comment is
Shinobi's were nerfed before the release of the game due to how badly one of the play testers broke the game

xwynns? So. Still OP

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Coup d' oeil:

Originally posted by Jesterofgames7712:

The funny thing about this comment is
Shinobi's were nerfed before the release of the game due to how badly one of the play testers broke the game

xwynns? So. Still OP

No JolNrbs
yep
there's very little you can do to nerf a shinobi

[SpiderKhan]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Also, if you are so desperately in need of holotargetting then you might have a bigger problem in general. It doesn't provide that much more aim and it's a solo target ability... Again I hardly see the point.

So back to wanting my Sniper to be the clutch power house... Which I don't see happening in LW2 either unless you get lucky in the AWC training.

Right now I'm experimenting with forgoing holotargetting perks altogether and training my snipers as officers that I plan to use with pistols as a complement to the sniper rifle, without snap shot.

Yes, because using a skill that can debuff several enemies a turn causing them to be easier to hit, easier to crit, and take more damage that DOESN'T EVEN BREAK CONCEALMENT means I have a problem.

Snipers, even snapshot snipers, don't make for good officers because they're typically not going to have everyone in command range and some of their abilities clash with their agenda. Especially without snapshot I don't know why you would ever do that.

[Belhedler]

Originally posted by Fightersword:

Yes, because using a skill that can debuff several enemies a turn causing them to be easier to hit, easier to crit, and take more damage that DOESN'T EVEN BREAK CONCEALMENT means I have a problem.

Never tried the class mod called Guerilla Class, did you?

[Regen7]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

Yes. Extremely hard.

First, I always relied on cover destruction to make sure my snipers got good shots and usually kills about every single shot they took in vanilla Xcom. You can't do that anymore, _at all_, in LW2.

Second, they don't start with a pistol anymore. They got that holotargetting crap, which is only remotely useful if you take the perks for it. You can always manually equip a pistol instead of the holotargetting system in the loadout tho and there is a lot of pistol upgrades in the training center.

Third, they don't have access to squad sight reaction shots readily at level 2 like they used to in vanilla. This mean that you will never want to overwatch with your sniper unless you get that perk later on, which IMHO underpower the sniper again.

My advice is that your sniper should be the first to get access to mods for his weapon. I'd go with a scope which upgrade the % chance to hit, upgraded clip size because otherwise you're forced to waste a turn every 3 shots and then a stock which allow you to steady hand on the turn you single move or reload so that way you don't completely lose that turn if you are not in a position to use your holotargetting system in a meaningful way.

Also I've settled down to shooting at the best target of opportunity with my sniper instead of shooting to actually hit an important target behind cover instead, like I often used to do in vanilla. Killing a lower enemy in one shot is still useful for your squad as a whole in the sense that the rest of your squad don't have to waste time and can advance on the jucier targets. The sniper rifle still have decently high damage in comparison to the rifles.

I wacked on as many mods as possible for my snipers, it's made it a bit better.

[Regen7]

Originally posted by Jesterofgames7712:

Originally posted by Coup d' oeil:

no more snap shot with death from above. Face off gone. I'd say it looks that way.

But then again I Havent finished the latest LW 2 campaign yet so I dont know what the AWC can return.

Shinobi's Prolly next. I never relied on them so much ever.

The funny thing about this comment is
Shinobi's were nerfed before the release of the game due to how badly one of the play testers broke the game

Yeah shinobis seem to be pretty powerful. Run and gun and keeping concealed when the squad is spotted so you can sneak and flank the enemy's powerful unit does wonders.