How to build a ranger ?

[Okami]

I heard blade are kinda good on paper, but get you in unsafe position most of the time (physicaly + counter chance from some alien 60% I heard o0) ==> and this is something you don't want in XCom...


So how to build Rangers ?
- Are blade actualy viable ?
- Should I go for a shotgun build ? (Commando from XCom EW)
- How good are Stealth Ranger ?

I'm stuck at first skill choice and I can't decide :(

[drkfnix]

I never ran a stealth ranger because I usually want the high damage/high crit shotgun as part of my ambush. Phantom pretty much takes the ranger out of the equation unless you start the shooting with them. I typically only ever use the sword as a last resort when I didn't have any other good moves available and the last enemy needed to die. Once you get to implacable and untouchable, the risk of running up to an enemy is significantly lessened.

Just be warned that you always run the risk of setting off a new pod of enemies when you try to go for a sword kill.

[Okami]

So you would go for "+2 blade damage" no matter what ?

[jouertue]

I suggest you to have phantom conceal for early mid game on all your rangers. Later respec them or some of them to a pure dps build, shotgun or blade depends maybe on the difficulty you play but untouchable is a must if you go melee

[Elldrytch]

I find I only like Phantom for missions where you normally would start without concealment, so Retalliation or Escort missions. I generally only have 1 or two phantom rangers, all the others are Blademaster

Shadowstrike vs Shadowstep, i always go shadowstep. I generally point-blank all my shotgun shots, and I don't really overwatch my rangers or break concealment with them. Conversely I use them to take ot other overwatchers all the time.

Conceal vs Run and Gun. I generally stack conceal with my phantom rangers, so roughly 33% of them. Conceal is great, but Run and Gun I find to be pivotal to using the shotgun effectively. If you're of a mind to use rangers to scout for snipers, then both this and phantom probably become more useful to you. I'm not a huge sharpshooter fan, so I don't normally do it.

Implacable vs Bladestorm, this is probably the hardest choice. Implacable is great. You can run & gun forward, kill someone and then fall back. Conversely Bladestorm is occasionally helpful to clear out any of the suicide missiles that are already damaged. Originally I always went implacable, but I found Bladestorm saving me more than I had expected, so I split it up.

Deep Cover vs Untouchable: No contest. Untouchable.

Rapidfire v s Reaper: I can't come up with a good reason to ever go Reaper. Rapid fire has no cooldown, and basically doubles your shotgun damage, since at point blank it's still going to hit. Rapid Fire lets you one-shot kill (assuming you're pairing it with AP rounds) any Avatar, and you can pretty well severely mess up a sectopod or gatekeeper (just stay a few squares away so you don't eat the explosion)

[Dire Wombat]

Blade rangers can be pretty fun, and if you're on one of the lower difficulties they seem to work well, so go for it if you want to.

If you're playing on the harder difficulties, unfortunately the swords are pretty poorly balanced, which makes the blade skills (by which I mean the skills that literally relate to the sword, not all the skills on the "sword side" of the tree) almost useless.

The problem is that at the beginning of the game, running around slashing things is too dangerous to be a regular plan; the sword is there as a useful backup plan for emergencies, and only comes up once in a while. Later in the game, the sword upgrades aren't even close to keeping up with increasing enemy health, to the point that I no longer even bother buying them. It's especially bad because shotgun damage becomes ridiculously good in the late game (assuming you're equipping them to max critical hit chance, which you really should), which just makes the upgraded swords look like a joke. And that, in turn, makes Blademaster, Bladestorm, and Reaper kind of pointless, especially compared to the kind-of-OP Phantom and Rapid Fire skills.

Again, this is all on the highest difficulties. If you're playing on easy or normal swords can be fine. And I do hope they take a look at overhauling the swords after the critical bugs and performance issues have all been patched, because swords are fun and I wish they worked better.

For now, if you're trying to build the "best" ranger you can, and you aren't using any "better swords" mods, it's basically Phantom/Implacable/Untouchable/Rapid Fire 100% of the time, with the only decisions being Shadowstrike vs. Shadowstep (I prefer the former) and Conceal vs. Run and Gun (tough choice; the latter makes the ranger a lot better, but the former lets your whole squad move faster and more effectively on many missions, which is a big deal when you're facing a turn limit).

[Okami]

Thanks a lot :) I feel sad that XCom 2 forum feel a bit empty compared to other games :/

[drkfnix]

Originally posted by Okami:

So you would go for "+2 blade damage" no matter what ?

I take the +2 damage, but I rarely use the sword. However, I just started a new game where I am taking phantom to see how it really plays.

Dire Wombat hit the nail on the head with what other skills are best for the ranger.

[Dorok]

Different opinion than those above, I like a lot phantom and concealed scouting. There's a lot of powerful application in many missions:
- As pointed in a post above, missions where you start without concealment they allow a faster mission beginning, that happen in Retalliation and Escort missions and the Final.
- But this usage (scout better and faster with a phantom scout) can be applied in all missions, the idea is make first combats with five soldiers and keep the scout for phatom scouting for progressing faster and safer. This applies to all missions with a timer or timed element.
- Another use case is the pair phaton scout and sniper, this allows kill stuff from far without retaliation. The base use case is kill turrets from far. But there's good use case against enemies too. And this can be used very well in missions without timed elements, attack facilities, attack convoy.
- Another special trick is for retaliation missions. You play the scout just for rescue civilians always concealed until you met an anonyme (if you don't use a Scanner). And the 5 other soldiers just do the combats and are ready to help the scout with some Aid protocol or something. Im' polishing this technic and it works very well. I equipd the scout for maximum solidity, there's two approach, dodged and speed based or health and armor based.

For the problem of a Phantom not taking part of ambushes, it's related to Concealed ambushes that I don't advise because they have bugs per design or true bugs, and enemies can have 1.5 turn during such ambush, and that's very dangerous for your soldier.

Otherwise the problem with sword build is close range is a too high risk of awaking more pods. Moreover the sword damages really need a boost.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by Dire Wombat:

If you're trying to build the "best" ranger you can, and you aren't using any "better swords" mods, it's basically Phantom/Implacable/Untouchable/Rapid Fire 100% of the time, with the only decisions being Shadowstrike vs. Shadowstep (I prefer the former) and Conceal vs. Run and Gun (tough choice; the latter makes the ranger a lot better, but the former lets your whole squad move faster and more effectively on many missions, which is a big deal when you're facing a turn limit).

I almost agree, for a phatom scout build, I consider Deep Cover often a better choice than Untouchable. Moreover Deep Cover works if you overwatch so it can be useful for a Ranger less scout.

The number of builds of Ranger are reduced by the opposition sword/concealment,

[Nuclear Flashlight]

L/I

1st Ranger: Phantom, Shadowstrike, Conceal (Respec later, or Run and Gun if other Ranger is close to this promotion), Implacable, Untouchable, Rapid Fire

Untouchable gets replaced in case of Ever Vigilant or Hunker Down Aim or Killzone.

2nd Ranger: Blademaster, Shadowstrike, Conceal, Bladestorm, Deep Cover, Reaper.

Blademaster does magic with Shadowstrike since it works with LoS. 100% hits, and good hits!

I'll hand it down again.

Rapid Fire deals massive damage to a SINGLE target. While with some good coördination with your team a Reaper can kill MULTIPLE enemies in 1 turn and thus eliminate more threaths. I used both to great effectiveness early, mid and late game.

Early game: You don't always get the chance to put a shotgun to someomes face. So this double move can be worth it. With Shadowstrike you'll try to find a spot out of LoS and get that 100%..Negating all RNG and since the update all dodge chances. (not tested on Muton's 60% dodge counter attack). Try to position yourself in full cover or half cover and get Aid Protocol.

Mid game: An Arc blade is capable of stunning, while a shotgun can deal an x amount of damage leaving the target alive. Note that you still need a backup plan in case the stun does not proc. If the stun procs, you get a hell of a good feeling and can finish off the rest while leaving this, in my case, Archon aside for the remainder of the turn.

[Dorok]

Blademaster working with Shadowstrike is a trick I didn't knew, the game is very unintuitive about that and what it shows.

For stun chance with sword I wouldn't count much on it, it's too small chance. Ok a different point of view, show me a let's play to demonstrate it, and not just one combat. Because sword isn't working with me.

[stevo]

Blade rangers will forever be pointless until they buff their sword at endgame.

Taking untouchable over deep cover is probably vastly better. Otherwise, the phantom tree just trumps overall. I used to think run and gun was a good option to go for, but honestly, given the overall mobility and accuracy of the unit with mods , I don't even find myself using it much.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by bladechild:

...
Taking untouchable over deep cover is probably vastly better.
...

Untouchable just protect against one attack and if you fail your kill you get nothing. Moreover with a Phantom build if you kill you get Implacable already, this is making Untouchable a bit pointless.

At reverse, deep cover is 20 defense and 50 dodge plus critical immunity (not sure of the last). It's not a tool related to attacking but related to scouting, and matching perfectely the phantom scout build and Implacable.

Moreover you can pump up dodge with PCS and Wraith Suit, 30+25+50 giving a 100+ dodge. And with Aid Protocal a fair defense.

[Cactuskiller]

No matter which skill tree you choose for your ranger, just dont use the sword, since:

Less damage than same-tier shotguns (same damage with blademaster), and lower accuracy on the same range --> Point black range shotgun hit is almost always (!!!) 100%, while swordhits are only 80%-95%, also shotgun crit chance on that range is significantly higher than sword (and even more with laser sight and ammo).

Only use swords when you havent got run&gun yet, or when you run out of ammo.

Both skill trees are equaly powerful:
Blademaster rocks with upgraded shotgun, crit ammo and run & gun, since with this combination you can get almost always 100% hit, 50%-80% crit shots. No ammo left? Just use sword (though its not as good as the shotgun in my opinion, see above). Use him to finish off strong enemys via flank/crit or one hit low/medium units

Stealth is equaly powerful, being able to stay concealed when the squad gets discovered, is a huge advantage, even more when the stealth ranger gets the ability to re-enter concealment. Combine with a battle scanner, and you got yourself a unit that will protect you from unwanted pods-activations, which can look for the mission objective while the rest of your squad fights, acts as Squadsight for your snipers, rescues civilians on retaliations without being seen (if the civilian is a faceless though, you gonna have a bad time :D). Short, stealth saves you some nerves, but fights less then the blademaster.

[Mistfox]

Swords are fairly important in early game when you don't have magnetics yet, when you hit things like Stun Lancers or Sectoids, the damage they do over that of basic assault rifles is near critical in some modes. A 10 HP sectoid is going to take a lot of gunfire to put down unless you soften him up, then go in with a machette.

That being said, it is also true that they don't scale up well, so go with them for the early game, then use shard guns later on. I heard some people are quite happy with a Blade Ranger finisher, but personally, I can't get the hang of it.