Guardian vs Ever Vigilant

[ThunderGr]

No matter what, I cannot get myself to take Guardian. 50% to have a second reaction shot if the first one hits is too random for me. Does anyone actually prefer Guardian?

[Ofan]

I always take Guardian and my specialists can solo pods or wreck a sectapod each when they appear. They like to proc execute as well. I'd say on average they take about 2-3 shots each overwatch and execute an alien every other turn or so - each.

The acheivement for running a single unit type and winning I ran with specialist on legend with guardian. 5 of them; not even ranked up to Col. it was a cakewalk

[ThunderGr]

How can they take 3 shots on an overwatch? Isn't that supposed to give them at most 2 shots while overwatching?

[Ofan]

Originally posted by ThunderGr:

How can they take 3 shots on an overwatch? Isn't that supposed to give them at most 2 shots while overwatching?

Because after each shot they get 50% to fire another, untill they fail or run out of ammo.

[Saint Landwalker]

Many, many people prefer Guardian.

I can find a decent case to made one way or another, but 50% is pretty good odds. It also seems to apply even if you miss the shot, as long as you have a Stock on the weapon, and since all of my Specialists tend to carry Stocks, that's handy.

If you're mathematically-minded, that means that even for Stockless Specialists, the average expected number of Overwatch shots taken is basically 1+(Hit Percentage). So if your Overwatch shot has an 80% chance to hit, for example (and if it's that high, then good for you!), having Guardian means an average of 1.8 shots fired.

If you have a Stock, the average number of overwatch shots fired will always be 2. And hey, two overwatch shots is a nice thing to have, even if you're only doing Superior Stock damage.

Guardian can make for some very nice concealment ambushes.

[Ofan]

Originally posted by landwalker04:

Many, many people prefer Guardian.

I can find a decent case to made one way or another, but 50% is pretty good odds. It also seems to apply even if you miss the shot, as long as you have a Stock on the weapon, and since all of my Specialists tend to carry Stocks, that's handy.

If you're mathematically-minded, that means that even for Stockless Specialists, the average expected number of Overwatch shots taken is basically 1+(Hit Percentage). So if your Overwatch shot has an 80% chance to hit, for example (and if it's that high, then good for you!), having Guardian means an average of 1.8 shots fired.

If you have a Stock, the average number of overwatch shots fired will always be 2. And hey, two overwatch shots is a nice thing to have, even if you're only doing Superior Stock damage.

Guardian can make for some very nice concealment ambushes.

It's excellent for moving your squad forwards quickly too, take 2 with guardian, set them up on overwatch as your first moves then move the rest of your squad, any pods you activate don't fare well. Works well with rangers with run and gun for extra mobility

[ThunderGr]

Originally posted by Ofan:

Because after each shot they get 50% to fire another, untill they fail or run out of ammo.

I did not know that! Well, it looks like guardian is much better than I thought!

Originally posted by landwalker04:

It also seems to apply even if you miss the shot, as long as you have a Stock on the weapon

Seriously? Having stock counts the overwatch as a hit? Another thing I did not know.

Thank you guys. You really learn when you ask, after all :).

[Mike]

i take guardian so they get as many shots as possible and then load up their guns with scopes/stocks and repeaters.

[Botji]

Like Ofan, I always pick Guardian, it feels more like a 70-80% chance of activating it than 50% and I have had single specialists solo kill Sectopods when it walks into their overwatch(AP/Bluescreen + plasma) and some lucky 4 string Guardian procs.

Its to the point where if im not certain I can clean up the pod im fighting I put the specialist on overwatch instead of taking the shot since it has a decent chance of letting him fire at least twice... works even if the enemy tries to fire if you pick the "correct" perks.

Although you do want to stack a bit of +aim on them so they actually HIT their overwatch shots so you give Guardian a chance to activate in the first place.

[Saint Landwalker]

Originally posted by Mike:

i take guardian so they get as many shots as possible and then load up their guns with scopes and repeaters.

To get as many shots as possible, you definitely want to put stocks on your Guardian Specialists. In the absence of Stocks, though, Scopes would probably be the way to go.

My preferred Guardian Specialist weapon-mod loadout would be Stock, Repeater, and (if I have the Lock and Load continent bonus) either Expanded Magazine or Scope.

[Ofan]

Originally posted by Botji:

Like Ofan, I always pick Guardian, it feels more like a 70-80% chance of activating it than 50% and I have had single specialists solo kill Sectopods when it walks into their overwatch(AP/Bluescreen + plasma) and some lucky 4 string Guardian procs.

Its to the point where if im not certain I can clean up the pod im fighting I put the specialist on overwatch instead of taking the shot since it has a decent chance of letting him fire at least twice... works even if the enemy tries to fire if you pick the "correct" perks.

Although you do want to stack a bit of +aim on them so they actually HIT their overwatch shots so you give Guardian a chance to activate in the first place.

Precisely. that's why I favour using them on the offensive to cover movement as the odds are you pop a pod in the open and get a cleaner higher accuracy shot(s) off at them

[Mike]

Originally posted by landwalker04:

Originally posted by Mike:

i take guardian so they get as many shots as possible and then load up their guns with scopes and repeaters.

To get as many shots as possible, you definitely want to put stocks on your Guardian Specialists. In the absence of Stocks, though, Scopes would probably be the way to go.

My preferred Guardian Specialist weapon-mod loadout would be Stock, Repeater, and (if I have the Lock and Load continent bonus) either Expanded Magazine or Scope.

lol strangely i was editing my post as you said that as i forgot stocks =P

[Saint Landwalker]

Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by landwalker04:

To get as many shots as possible, you definitely want to put stocks on your Guardian Specialists. In the absence of Stocks, though, Scopes would probably be the way to go.

My preferred Guardian Specialist weapon-mod loadout would be Stock, Repeater, and (if I have the Lock and Load continent bonus) either Expanded Magazine or Scope.

lol strangely i was editing my post as you said that as i forgot stocks =P

RNGesus bless Superior Stocks...

All that said, Guardian is very nice, but Ever Vigilant can also have its useful place. I would probably not prioritize it over Guardian, but it can be quite useful to quickly relocating a Specialist and still have them be able to (sort of) contribute, and can also be handy if you're really up against it on a turn-limited mission—you can book it and still be able to Overwatch. Ultimately, though, Ever Vigilant is probably best enjoyed as an AWC "bonus perk" rather than something you actually pay an opportunity cost for.

The other strike against Ever Vigilant is that, if memory serves (not at home right now), it only works if you spend both actions on movement. Which is to say, it doesn't work if you spend one or both actions on things like Aid Protocol, Medical Protocol, Hacking, etc. Which is a shame, because being able to combine GREMLIN actions with Ever Vigilant would make EV much more useful.

[tangoafterdark]

If Guardian was like Rapid Reaction in LW, I'd take it. As it stands, Ever Vigilant works better with my aggressive style.

[Ender]

Almost always take Guardian.

[asdf]

I always go guardian. I don't like guardian particularly much.. but then, I would make even less use of ever vigilant. Why would I need to dash and overwatch in the same turn? I struggle to think of the situations where I would want to do that. I guess there's a very marginal benefit to ever vigilant when you're dashing to keep up with a phantom ranger.. but generally, it's very rare that you should be dashing your characters, and the few situations that you do want to dash your characters in you shouldn't be in a fight or at risk of revealing a pod.. and those aren't the kinds of situations that you generally want to get a free overwatch in.

Guardian may be inconsistent, but the thing is that you generally never use overwatches for their consistency anyway so much as that they occasionally give you some freeby shots at the enemy. Most of the time overwatches are used for when a pod patrols into your LOS and you aren't really planning on the overwatches to actually hit the enemy as much as just potentially being an added bonus, and guardian sometimes adds a bit of extra damage for free - since you almost never use overwatches in situations where you absolutely need for it to work the inconsistency of guardian isn't really a concern.