So... XCOM 2 vs Long War

[Bullett00th]

Now that quite a few people have beaten the game or at the very least got well acquainted with it, I'd like to hear the thoughts of those who put hundreds of hours into Long War.

How do you guys think XCOM 2 compares to it? Tech issues aside, obviously. Purely gameplay.



Since I am not able to play at all since the hotfix, I decided to go back to LW and it was an interesting, yet unexpectedly sharp contrast. Only a few weeks with XCOM2 and the previous one does feel like a downgrade in many ways. Long War surely provides more in terms of quantity of tactical possibilities, but their depth, which I previously thought was not surpassed in the sequel, does not feel that impactful anymore.

You may say I'm just worn out with Long War and you wouldn't be totally wrong, however it's still as fun to play as it was. It's just that the base game does pale somewhat when compared to XCOM2, LW can only go so far using EW as a fundament.

While opinions may differ for many reasons, it's hard not to notice one of the main things the sequel did very right in terms of creating interesting combat scenarios, and that is randomly generated levels.

[Doing gens, you?]

引用自 jenniferthomas28：

Long War was a more slow paced and tactically thoughtful game. Cover meant something and was difficult to destroy, and you got more defensive/CC options that combat ones, forcing you to play carefully and strategically

XCOM 2 is like an MMO, you try to kill enemies as fast as possible as soon as you see them. Except unlike in MMOs were the enemies then scratch you for 2 damage if you dont kill them in one hit, these enemies crit you out of full cover, then mind control and panic as well. Letting the enemy get even a single turn is a disaster due to their insane accuracy and crit even vs cover and all their powerful abilities, but letting them get a single turn is unnecessary because there are so many different ways you can completely murder them on contact

In xcom 2 chrysallids activate from way out os LoS then sprint all the way to soldiers and attack them and you can't do anything about it. Also remember in long war how higher ranked soldiers didn't panic? Yeah, expect your captains and majors to panic on a daily basis. smh...

[drake_hound]

引用自 Coral：

In xcom 2 chrysallids activate from way out os LoS then sprint all the way to soldiers and attack them and you can't do anything about it. Also remember in long war how higher ranked soldiers didn't panic? Yeah, expect your captains and majors to panic on a daily basis. smh...

Get them gravely wounded more then will shaken. and then just use them for the 1 kill they will have moral 100 :P
Never ever panicking anymore aside from Psi Panick.

[Archmage MC]

Long War is better for many reasons, but I can say that XCOM 2 def has a lot better tacical combat bits such as total destructible enviorment and everyone has lock n load and the stealth system not needing javilin rockets to use. The tactical bit, XCOM 2 wins, its jsut more refined and more fun. Plus you can remove DR without needing to use an Acid grenade first.

That being said, Long War is better as a game. XCOM 2 SUCKS as an XCOM game in the macro scale. The Avenger is boring, there aren't any base building depths like Long War/XCOM, and the game feels.... boring. XCOM feels epic as its you vs the aliens, and Long War makes it feel even better with how alien units grow as you do. I'm in control of a huge army and I'm backed by the world to fight the aliens. However XCOM 2 feels... not grand in the least and actually qutie boring in retrospect with its crummy gorilla warfare thing going on. Instead of playing XCOM, I'm playing RISK, and that really sucks.

Lets not forget LW's 8 unique classes and MECs, the fatigue system, and 5 tiers of weapons instead of 3. And lots and lots of things to help you customize your soldiers even more like all the ammo types ext... and SHIVs.

Now if you could literally take all the XCOM assets, IE UFO missions, shoot down UFOs, your in a base instead of the crap Avenger, and make XCOM 2 have the exact macro gameplay of XCOM (council and all, including Base Assaults) with XCOM 2's micro gameplay, it would work wonderfully.

[Nasarog]

@Archmage - How much xcom vanilla, LW, and XCOM 2 have you played so make such assertations?

[Archmage MC]

引用自 Nasarog：

@Archmage - How much xcom vanilla, LW, and XCOM 2 have you played so make such assertations?

Vanilla? I'd say.. 40 hours?

Long War? 400+. Maybe 1000+

XCOM 2? A Veteran playthrough, but I could do legond easy since all I need to do is struggle up to Adronaughts and once I finish their autopsy I have won the game.

[Nasarog]

I think that if yo

引用自 Archmage MC：

引用自 Nasarog：

@Archmage - How much xcom vanilla, LW, and XCOM 2 have you played so make such assertations?

Vanilla? I'd say.. 40 hours?

Long War? 400+. Maybe 1000+

XCOM 2? A Veteran playthrough, but I could do legond easy since all I need to do is struggle up to Adronaughts and once I finish their autopsy I have won the game.

Legend is easy? Yea, I think not. Have you tried it? The Andromedons don't appear until much later, but I digress.

There are several interesting mods out right now for XCOM 2 that improve it vastly.

Though I too am a huge fan of LW, but it's not better than XCOM 2 with mods. Until Enemy Within came out, much of what LW had to offer didn't yet exist.

I suspect that XCOM 2 will get it's own EW type of mod as well. Then it would be more fair to compare them.

[Archmage MC]

引用自 Nasarog：

I think that if yo

引用自 Archmage MC：

Vanilla? I'd say.. 40 hours?

Long War? 400+. Maybe 1000+

XCOM 2? A Veteran playthrough, but I could do legond easy since all I need to do is struggle up to Adronaughts and once I finish their autopsy I have won the game.

Legend is easy? Yea, I think not. Have you tried it? The Andromedons don't appear until much later, but I digress.

There are several interesting mods out right now for XCOM 2 that improve it vastly.

Though I too am a huge fan of LW, but it's not better than XCOM 2 with mods. Until Enemy Within came out, much of what LW had to offer didn't yet exist.

I suspect that XCOM 2 will get it's own EW type of mod as well. Then it would be more fair to compare them.

The huge nail in the coffin of XCOM 2 to me in comaprison to LW is the game itself.

I HATE its story, I HATE the Avenger, I HATE this gorrial stuff, and I HATE the avatar project.

Why? Its not epic. It feels like some sort of B list cowboy movie. Bradford sounding like a heavy smoker doesn't help things at all.

XCOM is epic. You are protecting the world from an alien invasion. It has a bit of horror to it, esp with the Chryssids. You have the council where the aliens can take the countries and you can take them back. You can choose where you start. Repairs. XCOM base defense is a lot more fun, XCOM base looks better and feels more epic, ext... I mean, you get chocked up sometimes when the XCOM main theme goes in the first game. In the second? I'm just reminded of how boring things feel.

XCOM as a game, or on the macro scale anyway, or well with the LW mod anyway, felt like an invasion, and was incredibly fun. XCOM 2 as it is now is just some B list cowboy movie with a more defined ending.

Now basically remove the XCOM 2 story, or somehow make it work with the XCOM story with the whole council panic system instead of the crappy Avatar project, bring back UFOs'UFO shoot downs, ext... but more extensive, and REMOVE the Avenger and you'd have an even better LW, because lets face it, XCOM 2's tactical combat at its core is wayy better than LWs.

I also miss alien interrogations. It made the game feel more... epic.

[Pitchslayer]

引用自 Pitchslayer：

get yourself a nice mod package and u basically play - long war 2.0 legend overkill AyyyLmao edition alrdy - 'civilians included' - i am only missing my shogun, u never have enough cover removal with 24+ aliens on some maps.

Play Legend Ironman

6 Man starter squad, gets to 8 with GTS upgrades
More Enemies +1 to each pod
Lw Cover Values(30 low, 45 high)
True Concealment
Finite Armory: u have to build every weapon, armor u wanna use, or replace in case u lost it, with basic value it puts huge stress on your alloys and elerium
More Starting Ressources, 250 > u need to replace soldiers
True Retroactive AWC
Grenade AOE Falloff dmg
Muton Centurion, SMG mod, Leader Mod

I also consider some EMP reworks, for now i can live with the Tech-Vest mod

Fix for mimi beacon or just ignore it as i do
wanna buff some AYYS too cause u so godlike ? change some numbers in inis, get sectopod rework,

If thats not gona keep u busy for some time i dont know...game is only three weeks old, dont expect it to have the refinement of LW yet, as most of those mods arent refined yet.

but its alrdy the far better game imho

[Archmage MC]

引用自 Pitchslayer：

引用自 Pitchslayer：

get yourself a nice mod package and u basically play - long war 2.0 legend overkill AyyyLmao edition alrdy - 'civilians included' - i am only missing my shogun, u never have enough cover removal with 24+ aliens on some maps.

Play Legend Ironman

6 Man starter squad, gets to 8 with GTS upgrades
More Enemies +1 to each pod
Lw Cover Values(30 low, 45 high)
True Concealment
Finite Armory: u have to build every weapon, armor u wanna use, or replace in case u lost it, with basic value it puts huge stress on your alloys and elerium
More Starting Ressources, 250 > u need to replace soldiers
True Retroactive AWC
Grenade AOE Falloff dmg
Muton Centurion, SMG mod, Leader Mod

I also consider some EMP reworks, for now i can live with the Tech-Vest mod

Fix for mimi beacon or just ignore it as i do
wanna buff some AYYS too cause u so godlike ? change some numbers in inis, get sectopod rework,

If thats not gona keep u busy for some time i dont know...game is only three weeks old, dont expect it to have the refinement of LW yet, as most of those mods arent refined yet.

but its alrdy the far better game imho

Only problem is mods would need to completely replace the Avatar project with XCOM 1's Council system to make it fun.

[Malidictus]

XCOM 2 fixes a large number of "little things" you don't fully appreciate until you go back to the old game. The Overwatch fixes, the skill redesigns, the line of sight indicator, the "more than one type of kill all mission" and so on. There's nothing functionally wrong with Enemy Within or the Long War mod. I just don't feel like going back. XCOM 2 has enough depth and variety to hold my interest and more just makes it seem cluttered.

Then again, I was never a huge fan of the Long War mod. I like the smaller, more "arcadey" style of the base game and I've long since lost my taste for the time sinks and "complexity" of the old UFO. I'm sure we'll get Long War or a Long-War-Like mod at some point, too. The modability aspect alone makes this the product to stick with long-term.

[Fornax The Lazy]

I like how every one hates the game just because "it's not Long War".

[Archmage MC]

引用自 LtCol.Fornax：

I like how every one hates the game just because "it's not Long War".

Its the feeling mate. You go from a grand 'war of the worlds' to a B list cowboy movie that needs a lot of suspension of disbelief to even make sense. If the aliens wanted to deal with XCOM, they would do so after the first blacksite and send their 14 UFOs/month to hunt down the Avenger, which they should be able to track easily using XCOM's sattlites they no doubt plundered from their base invasion. XCOM 2 literally hinges on the aliens being braindead tactically and strategically to work.

Long War at least the temple ship helps the game make sense as to why the aliens don't just send down sectopods on day 1, and its a bit more believable that you can fight the aliens since your basically in control of a global super black ops group.

[Fornax The Lazy]

引用自 Archmage MC：

引用自 LtCol.Fornax：

I like how every one hates the game just because "it's not Long War".

Its the feeling mate. You go from a grand 'war of the worlds' to a B list cowboy movie that needs a lot of suspension of disbelief to even make sense.

Well that's your opinion,personally I think they're going the right way even though the story may need more complexity.

[Malidictus]

引用自 Archmage MC：

Long War at least the temple ship helps the game make sense as to why the aliens don't just send down sectopods on day 1, and its a bit more believable that you can fight the aliens since your basically in control of a global super black ops group.

You're in control of six guys and one jet. If the aliens wanted to win, they could just send those "14 ships a month" down all at the same time and you'd be able to handle all of one. All the rest of them would succeed in their missions. The whole premise of defending earth with enough people to maybe fill a bus is far more preposterous than running an underground resistance, especially with Tygan going out of his way to explain the game's premise of signal obfuscation.

[Pitchslayer]

引用自 Archmage MC：

引用自 Nasarog：

@Archmage - How much xcom vanilla, LW, and XCOM 2 have you played so make such assertations?

Vanilla? I'd say.. 40 hours?

Long War? 400+. Maybe 1000+

XCOM 2? A Veteran playthrough, but I could do legond easy since all I need to do is struggle up to Adronaughts and once I finish their autopsy I have won the game.

u played 400 hours lw, u start xcom on veteran and 'predict' u beat legend izi, yeh nope rofl

pls show us mortals on stream how u do that, so we can learn from u ^^