Grenadier Build: Gunner vs Demolition

[BrotherBabyface]

I initially preferred the demolition/explosives focused Grenadier build but, after finishing the game, I’d argue that the Heavy Gunner Grenadier is ultimately more powerful than the Demolitions Expert. It’s true; explosive-focused Grenadiers are HUGE in the early-mid game, and they never suck, but as mission length and enemy numbers increase, the cracks start to show. It comes down to what I call “ability fatigue”.

The holy trinity of explosive skills is Heavy Ordinance, Volatile Mix, and Salvo. They synergize beautifully and even better, have zero cool down. But their weakness is, THEY RUN OUT. Even with Heavy Ordinance, a Grenadier can carry just 3 grenades. Once those are gone, Salvo and Volatile Mix are little more than XCOM merit badges (i.e. useless). Now consider the Gunner: Shredder and Holo-Targeting apply to EVERY shot they make, EVERY round, including all special attacks. Chain Shot, Hail of Bullets, Saturation Fire, and Rupture all have punishing ammo and cooldown requirements, but if you take an expanded magazine and a scope (auto-loaders are also finite) you’ll fire more and hit more, and you NEVER STOP. Even when all your active abilities are on cool down, the Gunner continues to shred armor and improve your team’s aim.

This is absolutely crucial in the late game! When missions turn into marathons, the final mission in particular, your explosives Grenadiers will be holding their ♥♥♥♥♥ before the fight’s half over, while your gunners will still be shredding armor, boosting team accuracy, and slathering fire across the entire field til the bitter end.

[Syndra]

Poor Heavy Soldiers, they are always the last to reach Colonel. Offensive Lineman of XCOM!

[SievertChaser]

To throw in an opinion: what do you think of either subclass using an Assault Rifle (via a mod)?

[Khan, Binary of None]

I agree that most of the picks lean more towards the Heavy Gunner side of it.

Holo-Targeting and Armor shredding is a must have for any Grenadier, while you can grab mixed abilities from both sides further down.

One of the more debated issues is Supression vs. Demolition and I'll be honest. They both suck, but Demolition sucks a bit harder. Supression can be used to help keep a target pinned, prevent Overwatch fire, and force another enemy to move first. Demolition at best, eats your ammo and does not guarantee the removal of cover which your grenades already do (plus they damage the enemy).

Near the end it's more choice based, though I do agree Salvo is very good once you get Plasma Grenades and Rupture can be an excellent ability against most heavy targets.

Grenadiers combo'd with Shotgun Rangers are how I mainly play the game now as with 3 of each I can run 3, 2 man kill teams (1 Ranger and 1 Grenadier) and just fan out in a cone wiping out all the pods I encounter.

[SievertChaser]

FYI, per 2K statistics, cannons have the largest share of the kills.

[Rodrigo]

Gunner with Superior Scope + Aim PCS + Superior Repeater + Bluescreen/AP Ammo = Anything with armor nightmare. Mechs are just junk metal for target practice

With the increased aim, robots wont stand a change cuz they get no cover, specially sectopods, 100% hit.

Get a psi to inspire your gunner, follow: Rupture (applies holo target for denying chain shot penalty) + Chain Shot + AP/Bluescreen, that simply will kill any robot or even a sectopod single man if theres a lucky crit.

The other guy just explode things, wich is good provided theres a pack of advents together, plus you can go with other mods for mobility/health + armors instead of ammo mod for more durability, aim is a bit more negligible with the bom bom build.

None the less, ALWAYS have a gunner with this build. IMO.

[SievertChaser]

So, guess that settles it. Two gunners with different specs whenever possible. So, if a psy is not available, should I prioritize Rangers or Specialists for synergy?

[Khan, Binary of None]

引用自 dennis.danilov：

So, guess that settles it. Two gunners with different specs whenever possible. So, if a psy is not available, should I prioritize Rangers or Specialists for synergy?

Honestly Rangers have the best synergy with Grenadiers, taking the armor and adding an aim bonus to a target, combined with a Ranger's shotgun crit chance almost guarantees kills on heavy enemies.

[Zakal]

Used shreder perk on any grenadier during game,this is must have skill imo .Finished game Comm+IM

[BrotherBabyface]

引用自 Sovereigndrake：

Salvo supposedly works with heavy weapons on EXO or WAR suits.
After this, it really doesn't matter, these abilities are all that grenadiers are worth. Hopefully holo-targeting, rupture, saturation fir, or chain shot goes to someone else via AWC (yay!)

Salvo, from what I've seen does NOT have an effect on EXO/WAR suit weapons. Though that would be a major point in its favor!

[Rabid Cabbadge]

引用自 BrotherBabyface：

引用自 Sovereigndrake：

Salvo supposedly works with heavy weapons on EXO or WAR suits.
After this, it really doesn't matter, these abilities are all that grenadiers are worth. Hopefully holo-targeting, rupture, saturation fir, or chain shot goes to someone else via AWC (yay!)

Salvo, from what I've seen does NOT have an effect on EXO/WAR suit weapons. Though that would be a major point in its favor!

It does work with the war and exo suit

[Mistfox]

It is supposed to work with the WAR suit, the text in the Salvo ability even says that is why Grenadiers make the best "Heavy" soldiers.

I prefer volatile mix for my grenadiers, managed to slap an acid grenade on 2 pods once, Heavy Mec, Archon, Trooper Commander, Shield and some Elite Troopers I think. I only had to shoot the Archon later, the rest just... melted away.

[Eternal]

Since grenades permit now to loot dead bodies ( still have to sacrifice weapon loots), the explosive build is really powerful.

[Segovax]

引用自 Rabid Cabbadge：

引用自 BrotherBabyface：

Salvo, from what I've seen does NOT have an effect on EXO/WAR suit weapons. Though that would be a major point in its favor!

It does work with the war and exo suit

Yeah, grenades and heavy weapons. Salvo is great, but any ability that is an automatic hit in XCOM is also great, which is the other option. HoB is really, really useful on Ironman runs, because you can have that auto-hit waiting to cover any ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ 98% shot misses.

Even with Gunner specs I prefer volatile mix on them, because chain shot is basically rapid fire with a heavy weapon. It definitely has its merits but the Grenadier is the guy with the grenades and I just personally prefer that improvement.

I do think holo-targeting is more useful overall than heavy ordnance - especially if you're using a gunner as an armor shredder or suppression, and I have never had Demolition reliably destroy cover I needed it to destroy. In fact I tend to have a better rate of cover wreckage just having a Ranger blast at the guy with a shotgun. Even if he misses he's usually shredding partial cover, and Demolition has never once destroyed a full cover emplacement for me. The enemy -50 aim I find much more reliably useful, especially if the gunner also has holo targeting.

Rupture is also great but I kind of prefer saturation fire. It's an AE on a cooldown timer.

Great class overall, lots of different useful combinations.

[Slapstick]

I never go only demolition or heavy gunner with my grenadiers. For me it's Shredder, Suppression, Heavy ordinance, chain shot, Hail of bullets and Rupture. I'm starting to have second thoughts about suppression though. I find that I'm not surpressing as much in this one as in XCOM:EU/W. If Demolition had been a 100% to destroy cover it would've been a clear winner. Hail of Bullets is just amazing in my opinion. "Oh, a 4% to hit? Well guess what: BREWFWLFWRWLF!"

[Empiro]

Explosive-based grenadiers are great early game and for timed missions. If you're on the clock, you want to be able to put out as much damage as quickly as possible. Grenades and abilities like Salvo let you do that.

For non-timed missions and very long missions like the final one, you'll want the gunner line. Those abilities don't run out and you can wait around until the timers reseet.