swords are worthless - swords are useless.

[Etagloc]

firstly they can't get the 100% too hit like the "shotguns" can
they deal less damage and have less crit
they ONLY work in close combat, so you might pull another group if you are unlucky
they can't be modded or gain any ammo benifits.

sure, you might be able to make it work if, but it is a just not a viable option when you compare it to the shotgun option.
It has a few uses in the very early game, and can be used in some situation.

I think it was because it seems like a "sword-soldier" would be on par with the shotgun

like medic/tech both are viable

sniper/gun expert both are viable

grenadier seems to be a good soldier, mix up their skills, but in all missions you use both the cannon AND the launcher.

EDIT: saying they are "useless and worthless" might be the wrong choice of words.
I guess my point is, that unlike the other classes there are no viable build for swords. Your main focus will always be your shotgun ALWAYS. were as the sharpshooter can go an entire mission without fireing his rifle a single time.

[Thradar]

Sword and Reaper and Untouchable can help wreck an alien squad.

[Etagloc]

Originally posted by A Pretty Flower:

Originally posted by Etagloc:

firstly they can't get the 100% too hit like the "shotguns" can
they deal less damage and have less crit
they ONLY work in close combat, so you might pull another group if you are unlucky
they can't be modded or gain any ammo benifits.

sure, you might be able to make it work if, but it is a just not a viable option when you compare it to the shotgun option.
It has a few uses in the very early game, and can be used in some situation.

I think it was because it seems like a "sword-soldier" would be on par with the shotgun

like medic/tech both are viable

sniper/gun expert both are viable

grenadier seems to be a good soldier, mix up their skills, but in all missions you use both the cannon AND the launcher.

not really, they deal more damage than shotties, especially earlier on in the game and they have like a 93%+ chance to hit, whereas shotties even at reasonable range have like a 70% chance.

swords aren't meant as a primary weapon where you swing it around, its meant as a finisher. Got a muton staring down your sniper but your shotty only has a 30% hit chance? use the sword. Got an enemy mec with 3 hp but you can only assign 1 soldier to kill it? use the sword. Got to take out an extended archon before he launches missiles? use the sword.

this is simply not true. point black shotty is + 40 to hit. and triple the crit chance.
swords deal 1 more damage early, but with a much much lower crit.
and after the first upgrade they deal less, AND cannot use mods OR ammo bonuses.

As I said, they have a few uses EARLY.
It is simply not a viable build to focus on swords. unlike the other classes who can focus on either side.

[HubHikari]

My two cents:

Sword rangers are INCREDIBLY powerful in the early game. With Blademaster, Rangers can reliably hack apart ADVENT troopers and even Sectoids, letting you put an early hurt on alien pods.

It is true that once you get the Shard Gun and advance along the Scout path swords lose their luster compared to the Ranger becoming a crit monster.

However, the tactical utility of an Implacable, Untouchable Ranger able to finish off an enemy and fall back into cover cannot be overstated, and sword rangers come back into their own as a viable backup weapon in the latter stage of the midgame.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by HubHikari:

However, the tactical utility of an Implacable, Untouchable Ranger able to finish off an enemy and fall back into cover cannot be overstated

No one denies the power of being able to do that.
But it has nothing to do with the sword.

[DadouXIII]

They are underwhelming I agree:
- They don't hit as often as shotguns
- They don't hurt as much as shotguns
- They might leave you very vulnerable

They definitely need a buff!

[OptoNick]

Nah, shotguns were useless in EU, and still absolutely useless now. Not because swords are better, but because rifles are much more versatile and dangerous weapon. Arc and Fusion blades, on the other hand, in hands of captain+ is a stable 8-12 damage across third part of the map with a chance to stun or set on fire - and with Implacable skill or Spider suit+PCS Agility ranger is totally safe.

The only finisher weapon which is better than blades is a psionic Null Lance.

[Clown Fiesta]

Originally posted by Etagloc:

Originally posted by A Pretty Flower:

not really, they deal more damage than shotties, especially earlier on in the game and they have like a 93%+ chance to hit, whereas shotties even at reasonable range have like a 70% chance.

swords aren't meant as a primary weapon where you swing it around, its meant as a finisher. Got a muton staring down your sniper but your shotty only has a 30% hit chance? use the sword. Got an enemy mec with 3 hp but you can only assign 1 soldier to kill it? use the sword. Got to take out an extended archon before he launches missiles? use the sword.

this is simply not true. point black shotty is + 40 to hit. and triple the crit chance.
swords deal 1 more damage early, but with a much much lower crit.
and after the first upgrade they deal less, AND cannot use mods OR ammo bonuses.

As I said, they have a few uses EARLY.
It is simply not a viable build to focus on swords. unlike the other classes who can focus on either side.

Which IS my entire point: swords carry your ranger through early game until your shotty becomes op

Did you even read my first paragraph lol?

[Mosey]

I've already replied to plenty of these threads, but I find it absolutely hilarious that one group of players feel that Stun Lancers are so OP they need to be removed from the game while another group of people feel Melee is a waste of time because of how weak it is.

This is amusing because they are exactly the same thing.

^_^

[Robik]

Not only that Shotty > Sword... Skulljack > Sword as well :)

[Alpro]

Agreed, in early game, swords have higher hit chance and, with blademaster, usually better damage. Doesn't last long though, as soon as you have experimental ammo or weapon mod or ~sergeant rank, the sword stops shining. When is that, mid 2nd month?

I'm considering making a sword mod but it's trickier than it looks. I do not mean messing with the numbers or the code, there's a sweet spot to attain where the sword is equally viable to the shotty but in different ways.

[Kawira]

I think some ppl look purely on stats and don't really know the sword mechanics yet.

1. It can be used as placement + dmg ability to move forward ur ranger for a flashy play in next turn (very situational ofc)
2. Very important this one. Sword got bonus dmg to Sectoids AND can't be dodged. I don't know how do u even try to kill Vipers but blowing 2-3 grenades on one or shooting with whole squad just too see grazes is very ineffective and waste of turns/potentially health.

[Rumpl4]

a maxed out melee ranger with a fusion blade and hellweave vest is not something to be sniffed at, coupled with Implacable and Untouchable you are laughing

[Botji]

Originally posted by Tallahassee:

I've already replied to plenty of these threads, but I find it absolutely hilarious that one group of players feel that Stun Lancers are so OP they need to be removed from the game while another group of people feel Melee is a waste of time because of how weak it is.

This is amusing because they are exactly the same thing.

^_^

Its very different though, every attack on your soldiers is a pretty heavy blow on your combat ability and progress. Thats why a lot of people feel the Stun Laners are OP, like Rangers they have great range on their melee attack, they do heavy damage and on the off chance the soldier survives, they are likely stunned.. and you face them pretty early on too.

You cant compare a Stun Lancer that only has to make a suicide "guided missile" attack on one of your soldiers to be successful with a Ranger that has to do the same but stay alive too and preferably not even take damage.

It would be fine if the sword was high risk high reward but its not, its just high risk with lower reward compared to if you had used a shotgun/rifle.


Another great point why speccing blade skills is bad is that Rapid fire only counts as 1 attack.

Things like Codex or "other" teleporting enemies dont escape after the first hit, they wait for the 2nd shot... and Codex for example you can pretty reliably kill with a single Rapid fire, no clones, no teleport away.

Imo its such a high value skill that its impossible to pick Reaper instead.. Rapid fire doesnt even have a cooldown so even in a normal shootout scenario its almost always better to fire 2 shots than 1 slightly more accurate shot.

[AteBitGamer]

Gunslinger and Ranger can clear a pod in one turn.

[Fringehunter7719]

Originally posted by A Pretty Flower:

swords aren't meant as a primary weapon where you swing it around, its meant as a finisher. Got a muton staring down your sniper but your shotty only has a 30% hit chance? use the sword.

Mutons have a chance to ignore melee attacks and counterattack with their melee attack, which is often enough to 1 shot a ranger. Using the sword is just about the one thing you don't want to do in this situation.

Originally posted by Tallahassee:

I've already replied to plenty of these threads, but I find it absolutely hilarious that one group of players feel that Stun Lancers are so OP they need to be removed from the game while another group of people feel Melee is a waste of time because of how weak it is.

This is amusing because they are exactly the same thing.

^_^

I think the point is that the computer doesn't mind suiciding its stun lancer on the 75% or more of occasions where it fails to kill its target, whereas the player who is usually outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 and has very limited access to replacement troops probably doesn't want to lose their ranger most times they use the sword.

Originally posted by Kawira:

I think some ppl look purely on stats and don't really know the sword mechanics yet.

1. It can be used as placement + dmg ability to move forward ur ranger for a flashy play in next turn (very situational ofc)
2. Very important this one. Sword got bonus dmg to Sectoids AND can't be dodged. I don't know how do u even try to kill Vipers but blowing 2-3 grenades on one or shooting with whole squad just too see grazes is very ineffective and waste of turns/potentially health.

2. seems to be mistaken, not only can swords graze but once you get a decent laser sight on a shotgun the shotgun cannot, since crit seems to take precedence over graze. With the ranger bonus from the GTS you can usually get 100% hit, 100% crit guaranteeing 15 or more damage with the shotgun at point blank, compared to a chance of 4 damage on the fusion blade and an expectation of no more than 7.