Demolitions Expert vs Heavy Gunner?

[Artimise Flare]

So far, in the relatively early portions of the game, Demolitions Expert appears to be the optimal way to go, since grenadesa are so invaluable this time around. Anything to increase their effectiveness seems to be the best route to go.

However, looking at the perks available to the heavy gunner route, the skills available look ideal for helping raw recruits level up.

If used in conjunction with a demolitionist & holo targeting, provided the target isn't dead, a fresh rookie or squaddie can be "carried" until they can come in and finish off the target for as much XP as possible.

Other than that, does the heavy gunner have any real relevance towards the end game?

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Artimise Flare:

If used in conjunction with a demolitionist & holo targeting, provided the target isn't dead, a fresh rookie or squaddie can be "carried" until they can come in and finish off the target for as much XP as possible.

Explosives are way better at helping people score kills than holo-targeting is. Explosives very rarely deal enough damage to kill the enemy, so they soften them up and remove their cover, which adds much more of an aim bonus than holo-targeting.

[Turbomancer]

But in the late game, the tough enemies dont rely on cover, they rely on armor and HP, so the heavy gunner is good against those.

[phillip_lynx]

good that you can respec your soldiers ;)

[Stint Lint Flipliptip]

Originally posted by Stronkar the Memester:

But in the late game, the tough enemies dont rely on cover, they rely on armor and HP, so the heavy gunner is good against those.

Frag and plasma grenades shred armor

[Nasarog]

Holo-targetting is crucial at the end... CRUCIAL.

[drake_hound]

Optimal is a hybrid ! so picking from both side of the tree to make a optimal build!

That includes shred from gunner, rupture from gunner. chainshot from gunner.
extra grenade from Demolition tree. and offcourse Salvo !

Who doesn't want to fire 3 shots a round ?

Shame the extra grenade is such a hard choice I always miss holotargetting.
Or chainshot is a hard choice with +2 grenade damage (not the extra tile :P) but in the end they win out.

One turn salvo chainshot or salvo rupture is still the best of both world :P

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Nasarog:

Holo-targetting is crucial at the end... CRUCIAL.

Get some perception PCS or tracer rounds :P or get some other trooper with holotargetting :P

(never gotten one sadly :( none of AWC guys get holotargetting, I would love it on a sharpshooter)

[Nasarog]

Advanced Warfare Center gives you a chance to retrain if you feel that you made the wrong choice.

[Scorrp10]

With heavies, a mix is best.
IMHO:
Corp: Shredder hands down. If you need blast padding, you doing something wrong.
Sarge: Suppression, cause Demo is plain useless.
Leu: Heavy Ordnance. Extra grenade is huge. Blow up their cover soften your targets and give flanking bonuses on all of them to your squad. EMP bomb on sectopod is way better than Holo.
Cap: Volatile mix. Guaranteed wider area, higher damage grenades vs. two ammo, 3-turn cooldown ability that depends on landing a -15 aim shot? (And can still miss if it triggers)
Major: Salvo rules. Blow their cover with grenade, follow with single ammo, no cooldown cannon shot with flank bonus.
Col: Rupture. I fail to see a situation where saturation would do better than a well-placed grenade.

[Mike]

in the final mission vs countless enemies. youre gonna need more than a handful of grenades. i love holo targetting.

[drake_hound]

Originally posted by Mike:

in the final mission vs countless enemies. youre gonna need more than a handful of grenades. i love holo targetting.

I already said I miss holotargetting but that extra grenade slot means you can swap out a grenade for another utility . like ammo beacon flashbang.

That is why it is prefered over the holotargeting. it gives your troop more flexibility
Also it is incombination with salvo. so you get more out of salvo cause you can use additional burst 1 more time for a total of 4 turn burst (with warsuit or exosuit)

[Nasarog]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

Originally posted by Mike:

in the final mission vs countless enemies. youre gonna need more than a handful of grenades. i love holo targetting.

I already said I miss holotargetting but that extra grenade slot means you can swap out a grenade for another utility . like ammo beacon flashbang.

That is why it is prefered over the holotargeting. it gives your troop more flexibility
Also it is incombination with salvo. so you get more out of salvo cause you can use additional burst 1 more time for a total of 4 turn burst (with warsuit or exosuit)

Sure, but there in one particular unit I am thinking of. I do not want to spoil anything for anyone, but this unit is extra nasty and being holotargeted gives you that little push to get more hits on it.

[Bullett00th]

I always take one of each, as heavy gunner is very important for single target concentration.

If not - make a hybrid.

PC gamer did a pretty good piece on recommended XCOM2 builds, including a great grenadier hybrid.
http://www.pcgamer.com/best-xcom-2-builds/

Most of these match my own, some offer interesting alternatives.

[Дуплет]

heavygunner with EM ammo can kill solo sectopod

[stevo]

Pretty much always the same mix. Shredder, Supression, HO, Volatile, Rupture.

Holo Targetting is neat, and definitely pairs well with rupture on Gatekeepers, but rather passable as a wholu situational skill considering the other options you have to make hard to hit things die. It's not 'crucial' for the last mission, and if you think it is, you can always respec.

Grenadiers can't hit a barn door, whereas grenades will always do their job, so using your cannon is not something you want to be constantly doing early/mid game. Chain Shot is garbage because of this. Hail of Bullets could be useful, but Salvo is just too clutch.

I can see a use for Saturation fire, but if you have grenades anyway, Rupture is a better skill to take.