Turret shooting through roof cost me the campaign

[JankySwindler]

So it's September. Everything was going well ("xcom well"). Avatar maxed out so I had to do a facility mission, but I was well prepared. I took out a Sectopod and a Gatekeeper after a hell of a battle. 2 soldiers are down but hey, that´s life. As the final reinforcement pod is wiped out I evac my injured, leaving my sniper to plant the bomb. Central says there are no enemy contacts so let´s go I think. WRONG. As I enter the facilty I am overwatched by a lonely turret. Luckily it misses. Not quite close enough to plant the bomb, I have to pass a turn inside the facilty. Turn over and the turret promptly lower its gun and shoots straight through the solid, intact roof and one-shots my sniper. The mission fails and I have 3 days left on timer. GG. I dont even mind turrets not counting as "contacts" but for the love of god fix their damn LOS.

I have no issue with RNG or missing 95% shots, that's just a dice roll. the poor performance I can live with. This is too much though. I love the game but these kinds of gamebreaking bugs risks ruining an otherwise excellent title.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by Kuroodo:

The point isn't that 1 single thing would have ruined his campaign.

The point is that a gamebreaking bug is breaking the game. It's ruining the experience.

One thing is failing because of a mistake. Another is failing because of a game breaking bug.

It was a mistake. Putting themself in a position to lose the campaign due to a single shot from an enemy that they absolutely should have know was there.

Turrets constantly make noise even when you have not seen them yet.

They died due to a mistake. More than one actually when you consider that they evac'd people before grabbing the objective.

[subarublaidd]

there are too many LOS bugs in game IMO.

Especially since those lines of sight issues have been there since EU, so it's not a procedural map issue. It can't really be that hard to navmesh a map properly. And LOS checking is easy.. have computer trace a line from centermass to centermass and see if it crosses any navmesh. If yes, no LOS. It's probably harder than that, what with peeking around corners and such, but the idea seems simple enough.

[Smokey]

The title for this thread should be "I'm a scrub and i have never played xcom before" proceeded by WAAAHHHHWAHHHWAHH.
What kind of joker thinks extracting his whole team (bar one) before the mission is complete is a good idea.
Then he proceeds to bash the game as if it is the fault of the game that he lost the mission.
Guess what dummy, if you hadn't put all your eggs in one basket you wouldnt of ended up with a torn arsehole.

[Qiox]

Originally posted by subarublaidd:

there are too many LOS bugs in game IMO.

Especially since those lines of sight issues have been there since EU, so it's not a procedural map issue. It can't really be that hard to navmesh a map properly. And LOS checking is easy.. have computer trace a line from centermass to centermass and see if it crosses any navmesh. If yes, no LOS. It's probably harder than that, what with peeking around corners and such, but the idea seems simple enough.

What you propose is wrong for exactly the reason you state. If they did what you say you would never be able to shoot when you are in cover because your cover would block line of sight.

You must take into account that the shooter is leaning into all open squares around them to look around and see the targets. You must also account for the targets also leaning around to see around their cover as well.

[JankySwindler]

Wow people got heated up over this. Firstly I totally accept that leaving one soldier behind was a mistake and I should've understood that a turret was bound to be left. Losing to stupidity is fine and all in line with the XCOM experience. My issue with the game is that the turret could aim its gun straight down and fire THROUGH THE ROOF at my soldier who was in the center of the building. There was no window, no hole. It acted as if the roof wasn´t there. It was a straight up bug. I based my tactical decision around the assumption that my soldier would be safe underneath the roof (which is reasonable) and a glitch betrayed that assumption. That is it. There are no dice rolls here.

Yes I probably would have lost the campaign sooner or later. Commander/Irnonman is tough and I don't mind restarting. The game is fun to play. Losing to a glitch that shouldn't be in the game is infuriating and that's that. Almost all of the bugs (of which there are many) I've seen so far have been purely graphical and not had any particular impact on gameplay. This glitch was just too much and shouldn't be in a game that is designed around the ironman experience. I'm not bashing the game. I love the damn game. But no matter how good the gameplay is, firaxis deserves criticism for the technical issues that are in the game on launch. I would still write a glowing review, but the performance issues and these kind of glitches should be mentioned and deservedly so.

[Flodge]

I think the issue is, you didn't just say "LOS is bugged through roofs" which 99% of people would have agreed with (it's also horribly bugged through certain walls and doors).

But then expanding your story and blaming the loss of your whole campaign on it is where people are arguing against you.

Yes LOS is a little buggy (always has been, at least we don't have floaters in this one getting obscenely odd angles from elevated positions) - no the LOS issue didn't cause your campaign to fail.

[Ender]

Well turrets probably should be able to shoot through floors, I question how it still had LoS on you which is the real bug here.

The issue with your post is you keep exaggerating things so people take umbrage with it. This did not cost you the campaign and it isn't gamebreaking. This is just a common run of the mill bug, they happen in every game and it isn't some giant affront that a bug exists in a game.

Hopefully they fix it soon but it just is not a big deal that games release with some bugs. Anyone who has worked on software can tell you that you are never going to catch them all.

[JankySwindler]

Originally posted by flOdge:

I think the issue is, you didn't just say "LOS is bugged through roofs" which 99% of people would have agreed with (it's also horribly bugged through certain walls and doors).

But then expanding your story and blaming the loss of your whole campaign on it is where people are arguing against you.

Yes LOS is a little buggy (always has been, at least we don't have floaters in this one getting obscenely odd angles from elevated positions) - no the LOS issue didn't cause your campaign to fail.

Technically the glitch DID cost me the campaign. My soldier was alive and would have planted the bomb on the following turn if the turret hadn't glitched. You can absolutely criticise my decisions up until that point, but the fact stands that the bug ended the game, no matter what else could have ended the game before or after that point. You can´t get around it. Your argument is absoutely valid when people whine about missing 95% shots and losing everything. In this case there was no probability involved and as such my point stands.

[Ender]

Your campaign did not end because of one failed mission and one lost soldier is the point. That specific mission failed, the campaign did not.

[Barrelz]

Originally posted by ( ﾟДﾟ):

Originally posted by flOdge:

I think the issue is, you didn't just say "LOS is bugged through roofs" which 99% of people would have agreed with (it's also horribly bugged through certain walls and doors).

But then expanding your story and blaming the loss of your whole campaign on it is where people are arguing against you.

Yes LOS is a little buggy (always has been, at least we don't have floaters in this one getting obscenely odd angles from elevated positions) - no the LOS issue didn't cause your campaign to fail.

Technically the glitch DID cost me the campaign. My soldier was alive and would have planted the bomb on the following turn if the turret hadn't glitched. You can absolutely criticise my decisions up until that point, but the fact stands that the bug ended the game, no matter what else could have ended the game before or after that point. You can´t get around it. Your argument is absoutely valid when people whine about missing 95% shots and losing everything. In this case there was no probability involved and as such my point stands.

Agreed. The bug cost you that mission. Turret should not have killed you through the ceiling. Unless ofcourse it has heat imaging technology (possible i guess) but much more likely a bug.

[JankySwindler]

Originally posted by kpaxriding:

Your campaign did not end because of one failed mission and one lost soldier is the point. That specific mission failed, the campaign did not.

The game is designed in such a way that some missions will be campaign critical. Sooner or later you are going to have to push back the avatar counter and take on a facility where you need to win in order to continue playing.

[Anecron]

Wow, I can't believe you are all focusing on the "loosing the campaign-point". Who cares about where the fault lies, if one dice or two should end your campaign? The real issue here is that in a game that has been on the market for as long as one has, there's still no fixes on the way! That's so utterly bad and I'm outraged about Firaxis way to handle this - by NOT handling it!

[red255]

You want a random mapgenerator. you want reduced load times. you want to run this on the same machine you ran XCOM 1 on.

Its Firaxis's fault that sometimes a destroyable surface is treated as destroyed for purposes of line of sight.

let me ask you a question. do you ever press capslocks to speed loading times and what are the specs on your machine?

Did you think Firaxis was joking when they said this can cause bad stuff to happen?

[Anecron]

Well, I'm actually a pretty patient gamer. I don't mind waiting for long loadingtimes (I played Mordheim when it took 15-20 minutes to load 1 map), I have never requested a random map generator and think it would probabaly work better with alot of premade maps. I do not run the game on the same machine I ran xcom 1 on and I'm using a GTX 980 whatever that has to do with it...

I have never even heard of pressing capslock to speed loadingtimes. I usually play while watching tv, so I'm really not in a hurry.

So whatever Firaxis has said really doesn't matter to me. I payed alot for this game. I also payed alot for my car. If the steeringwheel on my car fell off mid-drive, I expect the manufacturer to fix it. And now, the steeringwheel of my Xcom2 not only fell off, it ran out the door and took my keys with it.

This should not even be a debate. It should just be fixed. Yesterday.

[red255]

look, I'm doing a mission. I press R to reload my gun and instead it fires my blaster launcher god knows where. (I quit out to load the autosave obviously)

I have no idea how that got into the game. I don't complain about it, because its ...funny and well thats XCOM baby.

but if you don't want random maps why did you ever leave XCOM EW long war.