Why have Conceal when enemies track you anyway? (Confirmed)

[Blue]

Tested thoroughly. While in concealment after about 5-6 turns enemies will all path directly at you regardless of your position. Seems to be in effect immediately on Avatar compound maps.

Just did a trial with an enemy Sectopod. Moved a single unit in concealment to several areas around the map while hidden. The Sectopod would with 100% predictability double move towards that unit regardless of their route- usually crashing through the compound walls to do so. Reloaded a total of 8 times in different directions and every time was the same result.

Also tested on Sectoids, MECs and misc Advent troops. Without fail will follow you until revealed, unless the terrain is impassable, in which cases they stick to the wall and no longer move.

All the bugs are annoying enough, but do we need broken mechanics implamented on purpose as well? I expected better from an otherwise great game.

Modders might want to get on this.

[Abisha]

i can confirmed and tested it, AI just walks directly towards your units.
I done a few turn tests and load test on same map (the tower mission i was trying to bypass the first tower with a small patrol of 2 enemy's when i set 2 members north they heading north when i set one unit on the top building they heading on top of the building. towards the closest unit.

[-shhfiftyfive]

the ai does in fact cheat. easy to test this. get a supply raid mission. scout out a patrol with battlescan (or 2-3 pod patrols overlapping which is common later on, which is when i tested this myself). save game. now observe patrol behaviors. 1. try sitting back and prepare overwatch. 2. try pushing forward in a less than 100% preparedness state. you will consistently notice that the ai will path away from you if you are prepared, and it will path into you if you are not fully prepared....

[Mook]

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

the ai does in fact cheat. easy to test this. get a supply raid mission. scout out a patrol (or 2-3 overlapping which is common later on, which is when i tested this myself). save game. now observe patrol behaviors. 1. try sitting back and prepare overwatch. 2. try pushing forward in a less than 100% preparedness state. you will consistently notice that the ai will path away from you if you are prepared, and it will path into you if you are not fully prepared....

How do they cheat? We get the sound feature that points towards the enemies. They could get that as well.

[Sotrennel]

I'm playing a sabotage mission right now, and concealment doesn't seem to be effective, since the patrol groups were chasing me around the map. I reloaded a few times to test this out with a patrol group, and every new route I took, the patrol group followed me on that route. Moreover, 2 patrol groups are camping my location, I pressed the end turn button 10 times and they don"t seem to move, unless I move one of my units a little bit.

[-shhfiftyfive]

Originally posted by ØпiҠanji:

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

the ai does in fact cheat. easy to test this. get a supply raid mission. scout out a patrol (or 2-3 overlapping which is common later on, which is when i tested this myself). save game. now observe patrol behaviors. 1. try sitting back and prepare overwatch. 2. try pushing forward in a less than 100% preparedness state. you will consistently notice that the ai will path away from you if you are prepared, and it will path into you if you are not fully prepared....

How do they cheat? We get the sound feature that points towards the enemies. They could get that as well.

because we have a fog of war. they see all. omniscient clairvoyant bs.

combine that with their unprecidented mobility and they will regularly suicide rush you for a flank shot because they are programmed to give you injuries, even if that means that suicidal alien dies immediately next turn... cheap way of programming difficulty.

then entire thing becomes easy mode as you get the AWC staffed wounds are short timed and then tier 3 gear allows you to destroy multiple pods in a single turn w/o breaking a sweat... it's like you get tier 3 and you've suddenly turned on god mode.

[Mook]

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

Originally posted by ØпiҠanji:

How do they cheat? We get the sound feature that points towards the enemies. They could get that as well.

because we have a fog of war. they see all. omniscient clairvoyant bs.

combine that with their unprecidented mobility and they will regularly suicide rush you for a flank shot because they are programmed to give you injuries, even if that means that suicidal alien dies immediately next turn... cheap way of programming difficulty.

then entire thing becomes easy mode as you get the AWC staffed wounds are short timed and then tier 3 gear allows you to destroy multiple pods in a single turn w/o breaking a sweat... it's like you get tier 3 and you've suddenly turned on god mode.

They do not see all, there are still enemies that do not activate in the fog of war until you are near.

[Abisha]

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

Originally posted by ØпiҠanji:

How do they cheat? We get the sound feature that points towards the enemies. They could get that as well.

because we have a fog of war. they see all. omniscient clairvoyant bs.

combine that with their unprecidented mobility and they will regularly suicide rush you for a flank shot because they are programmed to give you injuries, even if that means that suicidal alien dies immediately next turn... cheap way of programming difficulty.

then entire thing becomes easy mode as you get the AWC staffed wounds are short timed and then tier 3 gear allows you to destroy multiple pods in a single turn w/o breaking a sweat... it's like you get tier 3 and you've suddenly turned on god mode.

he is right AI suicide just to injuring your unit seen this to many times.

[F'tangg]

I've had them definitely head right for my hidden squad, away from their normal patrol route. Doesn't always happen though, so may not be intended.

[DrissX]

I've confirmed myself several times that the AI deliberately beelines for you. I'm not sure if its different on lower difficulties because I havent played anything lower than commander yet.

On my Legendary/Ironman run I'm attempting now and doing fairly well, if you count 10 dead people after about as many missions well, I'm not ♥♥♥♥♥♥ yet at least.

However in every mission involving concealment I've attempted to sneak past groups to the objective and deal with the one inevitable group which is always humping it.

Every single time, and I mean every time. By at least turn 4-6, every single pod is moved to within vision distance of one of your soldiers with no exception. No matter how far away they were before.

So concealement, at least in Legendary, exists for no other reason than to get the drop on the first pod. Preferably within the first combat round if you have 8 or the second if 12. Otherwise you are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ on time 100%. There is no other viable tactic in Legendary Ironman, concealment cannot be used to attempt to sneak past.

[abacusdog]

On Reddit there is talk of a suspected enemy AI sound mechanic. So far testing shows this mechanic comes into play if you sprint while concealed but does NOT come into play if you walk (only move your first move) while concealed. It's akin to them "hearing" you exactly the same way the wavy lines every other turn represents you hearing them. They DO alter their patrol to head towards the sound. However, they do not increase their patrol distance. They just alter course. Sneaky....

[-shhfiftyfive]

Originally posted by ØпiҠanji:

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

because we have a fog of war. they see all. omniscient clairvoyant bs.

combine that with their unprecidented mobility and they will regularly suicide rush you for a flank shot because they are programmed to give you injuries, even if that means that suicidal alien dies immediately next turn... cheap way of programming difficulty.

then entire thing becomes easy mode as you get the AWC staffed wounds are short timed and then tier 3 gear allows you to destroy multiple pods in a single turn w/o breaking a sweat... it's like you get tier 3 and you've suddenly turned on god mode.

They do not see all, there are still enemies that do not activate in the fog of war until you are near.

that's not mutually exclusive. some patrols are programmed to stay near an objective for example. other roam really far and overlap each other. just because a patrol doesn't leave a certain area doesn't mean it doesn't know exactly where you are, it's just bound to a set of rules given by the devs to remain in the given area.

as for after you reveal them, they will regularly suicide that one guy they can't even see (he was revealed earlier by anothe pod but this pod can't see him. i mean say you're not stealth. you see a group of aliens. one of your guys is way out of position and is behind a mountain well out of play... the alien pod you activated know he is back there. they don't have to have sight on him to know he's back there. the alien will dash yellow move all the way around the mountain to get a flank attack on them, or do a massively generous blue move to get sight on them and do a range attack on them. they are programmed to hit your weak points. to cause wounds. that's the extent of their intelligence.

[Mook]

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

Originally posted by ØпiҠanji:

They do not see all, there are still enemies that do not activate in the fog of war until you are near.

that's not mutually exclusive. some patrols are programmed to stay near an objective for example. other roam really far and overlap each other. just because a patrol doesn't leave a certain area doesn't mean it doesn't know exactly where you are, it's just bound to a set of rules given by the devs to remain in the given area.

as for after you reveal them, they will regularly suicide that one guy they can't even see (he was revealed earlier by anothe pod but this pod can't see him. i mean say you're not stealth. you see a group of aliens. one of your guys is way out of position and is behind a mountain well out of play... the alien pod you activated know he is back there. they don't have to have sight on him to know he's back there. the alien will dash yellow move all the way around the mountain to get a flank attack on them, or do a massively generous blue move to get sight on them and do a range attack on them. they are programmed to hit your weak points. to cause wounds. that's the extent of their intelligence.

It doesn't matter for what reason, they do not see all. If that were true they wouldn't go into flanked cover, then realize they are flanked and then move. Also on terror missions they are also times where they stay in parts of a map for no reason until you get close. That is all I am saying, the game cheats for us, if it didn't we wouldn't be able to win.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by abacusdog:

On Reddit there is talk of a suspected enemy AI sound mechanic. So far testing shows this mechanic comes into play if you sprint while concealed but does NOT come into play if you walk (only move your first move) while concealed. It's akin to them "hearing" you exactly the same way the wavy lines every other turn represents you hearing them. They DO alter their patrol to head towards the sound. However, they do not increase their patrol distance. They just alter course. Sneaky....

LOL, I would hardly suspected that, that could explain why from same reload I quote both attract a patrol or not.

It seems so obvious but not intuitive because even with two movements the animation show a run.

That's big if true, great game. :-)

EDIT: That opens new perspective like attract on puprpose a patrol to open a path to other soldiers. :-)

[-shhfiftyfive]

Originally posted by ØпiҠanji:

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

that's not mutually exclusive. some patrols are programmed to stay near an objective for example. other roam really far and overlap each other. just because a patrol doesn't leave a certain area doesn't mean it doesn't know exactly where you are, it's just bound to a set of rules given by the devs to remain in the given area.

as for after you reveal them, they will regularly suicide that one guy they can't even see (he was revealed earlier by anothe pod but this pod can't see him. i mean say you're not stealth. you see a group of aliens. one of your guys is way out of position and is behind a mountain well out of play... the alien pod you activated know he is back there. they don't have to have sight on him to know he's back there. the alien will dash yellow move all the way around the mountain to get a flank attack on them, or do a massively generous blue move to get sight on them and do a range attack on them. they are programmed to hit your weak points. to cause wounds. that's the extent of their intelligence.

It doesn't matter for what reason, they do not see all. If that were true they wouldn't go into flanked cover, then realize they are flanked and then move. Also on terror missions they are also times where they stay in parts of a map for no reason until you get close. That is all I am saying, the game cheats for us, if it didn't we wouldn't be able to win.

here's a funny story... you tell me if this changes your mind.

i'm on a mission. i scan an area and know heres a big group ahead. i proximity mine it and then blast it with acid bomb to trigger enemy movement. as the enemy moves.... wait for it... the proximity mine triggers and explodes... this destroys the wall between me and the pod... now remember, the aliens were moving before the proximity went off, right? okay so how (if the ai doesn't know all) did the alien come rushing right through that wall if he didn't know it was going to be blown up beforehand!


in fact, the reason the sometimes do stupid things like leave themselves flanked is because the devs actually (admittedly) programmed it in so they would do unpredictable moves, such as not kill your flanked soldier after getting it down to 1 hp, so as leaving themselves in a flank... it's silly but the des did that because they AI in EU/EW was too predictable... but now the unpredictable parts programmed into xcom 2 are just bonehead moves.... it's sad.

and as for certain stuff like pods sitting back on terror missions... the do that because the devs programmed them to do that. period.

[Mook]

Originally posted by -shhfiftyfive:

Originally posted by ØпiҠanji:

It doesn't matter for what reason, they do not see all. If that were true they wouldn't go into flanked cover, then realize they are flanked and then move. Also on terror missions they are also times where they stay in parts of a map for no reason until you get close. That is all I am saying, the game cheats for us, if it didn't we wouldn't be able to win.

here's a funny story... you tell me if this changes your mind.

i'm on a mission. i scan an area and know heres a big group ahead. i proximity mine it and then blast it with acid bomb to trigger enemy movement. as the enemy moves.... wait for it... the proximity mine triggers and explodes... this destroys the wall between me and the pod... now remember, the aliens were moving before the proximity went off, right? okay so how (if the ai doesn't know all) did the alien come rushing right through that wall if he didn't know it was going to be blown up beforehand!


in fact, the reason the sometimes do stupid things like leave themselves flanked is because the devs actually (admittedly) programmed it in so they would do unpredictable moves, such as not kill your flanked soldier after getting it down to 1 hp, so as leaving themselves in a flank... it's silly but the des did that because they AI in EU/EW was too predictable... but now the unpredictable parts programmed into xcom 2 are just bonehead moves.... it's sad.

That fits with what I said, it doesn't matter if they see all or not, they are AI so of course they do. If you cover a mans eyes he isn't blind but he still can't see.

The game cheats in our favor in many ways, people on Reddit talk about the sound feature that we have and they also might have. The game even gives us extra aim assist so we can cheat, if you don't believe then download the mod the removes the aim assist to make us basically equal to the enemy