Viper tongue attack is completley OP

[Larry the Cacodemon]

Ok, I don't mind the basic idea of the Viper's grab ability, but what I do mind is the fact that it's range is completely overpowered. I was just playing a mission where I put one of my snipers on top of a 2 story building to attack troops beneath assuming that the viper could not possibly use it's grab attack at such a distance, but nope, it appears that it can. It literally shot it's tongue on top of the tall building and then dragged my sniper a vast distance away from my team.

I'm sorry, but there is a difference between an enemy that is tough and one that is cheap. Vipers are cheap.

I don't think the viper's ability to grab your troops should be removed, but I do feel that it's effective range should be considerably lowered. Do you share my sentiments?

[Joel]

SalmonSnake a écrit :

If OP can't beat sectoids and vipers, you certainly shouldn't be playing the game anymore. If you do beat them, next you'd be yelling how codexes are broken I guess. Or berserkers

Chryssalid being OP...
There's a potential for any of them to -appear- to be OP.

[Ancient Toaster]

Vipers are pretty terrible, yes. Their tongue ability is completely rigged. The range is too far and it has ridiculous accuracy. Not only that is defies the logic of cover and solid walls.

I've been grabbed by a tongue under full cover with a smoke nade on my guy, and the tongue just swooped in, pulled him 10 tiles away and pretty much ♥♥♥♥♥♥ my chances to save him. Such ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Ancient Toaster]

SydKhaos a écrit :

Selfish Lee Everett a écrit :

It is a little OP, but like sectoids they are quite stupid and very predictable.

This^
I would agree to the attack being a bit OP, but Vipers are stupid and easy to predict.

Flash+blade=dead viper before they can tounge ya...ya know, unless you into that sort of thing =P

You guys act like seeing a Viper immediately means it's going to die. That isn't even remotely true. When you discover a Pod and you see a Viper, and they go to cover, there isn't much you can do unless you knew that mo fo was going to be there (under concealment) or all of your guys still have action, even then it's probably under full cover and 10+ tiles away so good luck killing it before it gets off it's stupid tongue attack for a free kill on your guy.

[Britty mitty]

I don't find vipers op, simply irritating, i'd rank lancers as a much bigger threat due to the fact they will happily charge at your group and start prodding them like cattle in the farm and possibly knock one of them out, which is much worse then getting grabbed by a viper imo, since with the viper you can at least try and free them and as a few stated earlier, when they are constricting, they lose cover bonuses.

I will admit though, it is a big pile of bs when they tongue clip asoilder behind a truck (when the soldier them self can't hit the viper) or through the floor, that needs fixing.

That said, if your having issues wth them, then i surgest taking battle scanners or a specialist that can scan the battle field, since knowing where the vipers are can help set up a proper ambush, or at least help you avoid running into that pod with out at least being prepared.

I also tend to pull my troops back if i spot a viper or a few other nasties so i can draw them in to a lethal crossfire, doesn't always work, but them charging out of cover can give any one on overwatch a chance to off them before any seoruis harm is done (provided that high dodge stat they have doesn't kick in and make a lethal shot graze them).

One final thing, you ARE going to lose soldiers, its going to hurt, it will be painful to see your ultra class pirate specalist with her eye patch get reconstructive surgery to the face with a plasma bolt (*sniff), but that is also part fo the charm, the game is brutal, its unfair, but that is the setting, you are on the back foot and at a major disadvantage, if you constantly lose toops to one enemy type on missions, tehn it may mean you need to change HOW you approach those enemies, each one can be countered and while soemtimes the RNG of the game for shots and other things can be a git, its all a part of the game and if you really hate getting your ass whooped, then maybe you shouldn't play the game or simply play it on a easy difficultly.

[Larry the Cacodemon]

Well, I have made a mod that nerfs the viper tounge attack as well as the lancer. You can even download it from the steam workshop if you want. I am also thinking about making some tweaks to the codex and also might buff the flashbang so it actually does something.

[L3TUC3]

Vipers always seem to nab my rangers. Which is fine, do a little damage, viper lets go, shotgun it to the face, implacable, run to cover.

[PKNecron]

There are two factors that make it OP. The range, and the fact that it can grab through cover. The range should be 50% of what it is, and it should not work at all if your troopers are in cover. Fix those two things and it's fine.

[gimmethegepgun]

AncientToaster a écrit :

When you discover a Pod and you see a Viper, and they go to cover, there isn't much you can do

Explosions.

[Jeckenn]

I sort of agree that the vipers are no where near as bad as what they were in XCOM EW, the Thin Men, those dudes could and would spit the acid/poison AND they would shoot at you.

[Joe Stanley Laserpants]

PKNecron a écrit :

There are two factors that make it OP. The range, and the fact that it can grab through cover. The range should be 50% of what it is, and it should not work at all if your troopers are in cover. Fix those two things and it's fine.

I don't have a problem with being yanked from behind a rock or a fence, it's when the tongue is going directly through walls and floors, that's when I say WTF. That's really what's OP about it. Of course, if floors and walls actually blocked attacks and line of sight (especially while in concealment), then that would solve a lot of problems.

[billy]

apart from maybe the first two times you meet them they become an irrelevance you can kill easy.

I think they are one of the weakest enemies.

[Black Jesus]

Let's see every enemy in this game has a counter...

Advent Trooper/Heavy Trooper/Officer - Seriously if these guys have you stumped I'll blow your brains out myself.
Viper - Either Mimic her or even better flashbang her to disable her skills and lower her shooting accuracy.
Sectoid - Just kill at least one Advent Human unit, his AI will force him to resurrect and waste his turn.
Advent Shieldbearer - This is a priority kill cause he shields himself and others. Flashbang, sweep and clear him and others once you flash him use standard target priority protocols.
Archon - Mimic him if you can't finish before turn end or flash to disable blazing pinions.
Muton - Blow cover, shoot to death, unless you pulled more then you can handle these guys are easy.
Gatekeeper - Rupture then gun down
Sectopod - EMP, Rupture, gun him down. Alternatively hack him and take him out of the fight for two turns.
Andromedon - Either mind control him, or kill him and then hack.
Stun Lancer - Flash and clear.
Faceless - This guy is easy either kill him after he reveals, overwatch before he reveals, use battle scanner then gangbang, or throw a mimic beacon and distract till next turn.
Codex - Flashbang her then gun her down the flashbang prevents teleport, cloning, etc.
MEC/Heavy MEC - Either hack and deal with later or EMP them.

Who am I forgetting. Seriously flash bang is like the answer to 90% of your problems it's basically the Robitussen of XCOM 2.

[gimmethegepgun]

Black Jesus a écrit :

Advent Shieldbearer - This is a priority kill cause he shields himself and others. Flashbang, sweep and clear him and others once you flash him use standard target priority protocols.

Shieldbearer's shield is one of the few abilities that can still be used when Disoriented.
Skullmine is still a 70% instakill regardless of health, armor, and shield though.

[Larry the Cacodemon]

PKNecron a écrit :

There are two factors that make it OP. The range, and the fact that it can grab through cover. The range should be 50% of what it is, and it should not work at all if your troopers are in cover. Fix those two things and it's fine.

My mod does literally what you said, exept for the part about the cover.

[SilverDiamond]

Have to disagree with anyone who thinks that the Viper's grab is normal.
1) You might have stronger enemies in your immediate line of fire(DLC's).
2) Viper is just TOO FAR AWAY and there is an objective to do or you LOSE the mission, while other enemies are in direct way of your troops. Especially bad to lose someone to her if you have VERY limited turns to losing the mission. It's not som much OP, as it's a litle broken. Or maybe those things are the same.
So, everyone who says about people not being able to play, be quiet.