BUG: Phantom ranger doesn't fire overwatch

[zsh]

If I put him on overwatch I want him to fire, not to sit there hiding. If I didn't want him to be revealed, I wouldn't put him on overwatch.

I'd appreciate if Phantom's were firing last though, so that if there is nobody to shot at anymore, they'd stay concealed.

[Timi]

It's not a bug, but it could use two different overwatch buttons, one for staying concealed, and another for joining in the fight.

You still want to overwatch your concealed rangers without having them to shoot everything, incase they get flanked for whatever reason.

[RoyBaty]

It's not a bug.
A concealed unit won't break concealment on overwatch.

[zsh]

How come it is not a bug? I have 2 Phantom rangers and they are useless to setup ambush because of that.

No need for 2 buttons either, algorithm is pretty simple:

1) If enemy is visible by any of your non concealed units -> fire
2) If enemy is flanking you -> fire
3) else -> sit tight.


That way when ambushing, non-fantom units will fire, loose their concealment and allow Phantoms to fire too if there is anybody left to shoot at.

[zsh]

Originally posted by RoyBaty:

It's not a bug.
A concealed unit won't break concealment on overwatch.

It is a design bug them for the reasons I described above. If you want firepower I overwatch, if I want concealment I simply don't put them on overwatch. Let Commander decide how it should be, not the soldier himself :)

[Lathrim]

Originally posted by redbaron:

How come it is not a bug? I have 2 Phantom rangers and they are useless to setup ambush because of that.

No need for 2 buttons either, algorithm is pretty simple:

1) If enemy is visible by any of your non concealed units -> fire
2) If enemy is flanking you -> fire
3) else -> sit tight.


That way when ambushing, non-fantom units will fire, loose their concealment and allow Phantoms to fire too if there is anybody left to shoot at.

It's not a glitch because there are situations where the player doesn't want their Phantom Ranger to lose concealment for an OW shot. If they're flanked (and thus seen), that changes completely. This is why they should have two buttons.

[zsh]

Originally posted by Lathy:

It's not a glitch because there are situations where the player doesn't want their Phantom Ranger to lose concealment for an OW shot. This is why they should have two buttons.

Like what?

[Timi]

Originally posted by redbaron:

Like what?

My Ranger is 100% scout for most of the time. I don't want them to fire /ever/, if there's an alternative. They overwatch only to kill whatever happens to flank and reveal them, and only attack if it's needed to save someone otherwise.

Especially if you don't have the re-concealment abilty, the phantom ranger shooting means you lose your scout, which in timed missions slows you down too much.

[Pure Hostility]

Originally posted by redbaron:

Originally posted by Lathy:

It's not a glitch because there are situations where the player doesn't want their Phantom Ranger to lose concealment for an OW shot. This is why they should have two buttons.

Like what?

You can use phantom rangers as a checkpoint OW.
You place them closer to enemies, as a line you don't want them to cross, if they do cross and they pass your phantom ranger, it will initiate his/her OW. (Good example is to set up safe haven for your squad against stun lancers in the early game)
Otherwise he will stay in concealment.

Phantom rangers are mostly used as scouts, you want to keep 'em in hidden state as long as you have a need to scout area ahead, without alarming alien pods.

[drake_hound]

They will only overwatch fire when somthing breaks there concealment.

So there should be a normal overwatch button. for phantom rangers.
But it is done cause it is a scout. so it will not trigger concealed overwatch.

Why? cause or else ambush phase is useless :P when something moves during concealment phase far far away :P they all fire at it thus breaking concealment.

[Lensar]

They only do overwatch fire if they're revealed first.

[zsh]

You both describe situation where you don't want them to loose concealment, well fine, don't put them on overwatch then.

None of that falls into categody where Phantom is on OW AND enemy unit is seen by any of your non-concealed team member (== enemy unit is actively in combat with them) AND you don't OW to fire. Simple fact that Phantom in OW in combat means that Commander want it to fire.

[Timi]

Originally posted by redbaron:

You both describe situation where you don't want them to loose concealment, well fine, don't put them on overwatch then.

If you don't OW them, and they get flanked, they won't shoot. That's the whole point of OW'ing them in concealment to me.

[Dabraxus]

Originally posted by redbaron:

You both describe situation where you don't want them to loose concealment, well fine, don't put them on overwatch then.

No.. Both situations described are valid. You put your concealed ranger in overwatch in case something goes wrong and your ranger gets spotted -> he can take a shot at whatever spotted him / wants to kill him.

2 different overwatch settings would be the best way to handle both situations.

[zsh]

Originally posted by drake_hound:

They will only overwatch fire when somthing breaks there concealment.

So there should be a normal overwatch button. for phantom rangers.
But it is done cause it is a scout. so it will not trigger concealed overwatch.

Why? cause or else ambush phase is useless :P when something moves during concealment phase far far away :P they all fire at it thus breaking concealment.

That is why I say they should keep same OW button but extend logic a bit.

Current logic:

OW Phantom fires on OW when it looses concealment (which currently happens when it is flanked)

Additional logic I am proposing (shoulld be ORed with previous one):

OW Phantom fires on OW when enemy is in LoS of Phantom AND is in combat with your units (which by definition means that other units are non in concealment and established LoS with enemy unit already)


This will keep Phantoms usable as scouts AND will allow it to provide so necessary firepower during initial ambush

[Kaerius]

Since you don't want to learn how to use a scout and don't care about that usage, just pick blademaster on all your rangers from now on.