Vests not very useful?

[Panfilo]

Taking up a utility slot for a Vest seems like a bad deal according to the player consensus. I guess this is because anything a vest could do, a grenade or mimic beacon could do better. Similarly, a specialty ammo will probably get more cumulative benefit than a vest.

The basic vest only gives a bit more HP and seems like the worst of the lot. I assume this is intended to slap onto Rookies/Squaddies since the marginal increase in HP would benefit them the most. Still, a grenade or just about anything would benefit them more. So this one seems like the worst of an already mediocre class of equipment.

The Hazmat vest feels really situational and I think there just aren't enough circumstances in which being immune to elements makes a big difference. I mean maybe if you had a grenadier with poison gas grenades; you could have your Ranger with a Hazmat vest to safely cross through gas clouds to flank enemies that themselves are not going to cross areas that would damage themselves.

The Hellweave is funny because its obviously designed as an anti chrysalid item and seems meant to work with Ranger Bladestorm. But again, situational.

The restoration vest seems the best of the lot; +2HP/turn up to 8HP healed can top yourself off if you have dodge pumped up and are getting a lot of grazing hits.

Eating up a whole inventory slot feels like the biggest setback to it and I wish some of the other equipment made it more worth it, like if some of the specialty armors came with an 'extra' slot you could only use for a Vest, or the vests provided a broader set of benefits (reduce crits, improve mobility, ignore panic/stun/disorient once per mission, etc.

[Feral Hogs R Us]

One idea would be to give the grenadiers and maybe rangers a perk which allows them to equip a vest "for free".

[Panfilo]

That would definitely be nice.

Alternatively, a vest(s) that modify other equiment in your soldier inventory, or even their armor. Such as adding an additional +2 flashbang/smoke grenades if you had a flashbang/smoke grenade currently in your inventory, allowing a self-heal if you used a Medikit on another soldier, reducing the cooldown of all your abilities by 1 to a minimum of 1, etc.

[red255]

I use vest on my psionics. so they wear a war suit and a plated vest for 3 armor. (you can get 4 with blast padding but whatever)

yeah its.... not exactly as good as say a med-kit in some respects but they can leech life back with soul fire if they take a hit and 3 armor is nothing to sneeze at. when things do like 5-7 damage thats cutting it to 2-4 damage.

its not liek they would need an ammo slot or a grenade having psionics (they have a blaster launcher in the war suit)

so yeah a war suit basically DOES give you a vest and grenade for the price of one.

and my psionics wear a plated vest on top of that.

also armor is very good if you stack with DODGE. like you put a dodge PCS on an assault with 3 (or 4) armor... and he's going to be taking VERY little damage.

[Nokad]

Psi operative, melee ranger and demolition expert grenadier are the ones I always use vests with. They don't really benefit from ammo and throwing a mimic beacon with them is just a wasted round, especially late game.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by red255:

I use vest on my psionics. so they wear a war suit and a plated vest for 3 armor. (you can get 4 with blast padding but whatever)

When you think about it, Plated is REALLY BAD compared to Stasis. There's NO WAY you're going to get hit 8 times (and especially not without the armor getting shredded off), so the only way Plated will ever give you more value is if the extra 1 armor is enough to stop you from getting killed in 1 turn.

Originally posted by Nokad:

Psi operative, melee ranger and demolition expert grenadier are the ones I always use vests with. They don't really benefit from ammo and throwing a mimic beacon with them is just a wasted round, especially late game.

Why would you put a vest on an explosive grenadier? Giving them a vest is one less explosive they can lob (by which I assume that you'll use EXO/WAR instead of Predator/Warden, since you can't use both slots for explosives, so instead bring a heavy weapon)

[!?!]

If the all-important ammo didn't exist, they would be usable but right now, I'd rather put people into wraith or war suits than put a vest on them.

Originally posted by Nokad:

throwing a mimic beacon with them is just a wasted round, especially late game.

lol

[red255]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by red255:

I use vest on my psionics. so they wear a war suit and a plated vest for 3 armor. (you can get 4 with blast padding but whatever)

When you think about it, Plated is REALLY BAD compared to Stasis. There's NO WAY you're going to get hit 8 times (and especially not without the armor getting shredded off), so the only way Plated will ever give you more value is if the extra 1 armor is enough to stop you from getting killed in 1 turn.)

When you think about it? jesus man, I just like being hit for 1 damage and laughing at the dodge mechanic.

but armor stops damage from I believe all sources. like falling or skulljack feedback.

very few monsters carry shred, just the mutons and the MECs.

Stasis ... most maps are over in 6 turns. Stasis isn't better than a medpack.

but Plated armor gives +1 armor.

ok, lets say you are shot for 5 damage. thats 5 days wound time and the plated armor reduces it to 4?

stasis isn't going to do that.

[!?!]

Originally posted by red255:

ok, lets say you are shot for 5 damage. thats 5 days wound time and the plated armor reduces it to 4?

stasis isn't going to do that.

Now let's say you are shot for 0 damage because the enemies shoot a mimic beacon instead.
Or are dead or disabled because you had an emp bomb.
Or can't use their abilities and miss everything because you had a flashbang.
That's 0 days wound time and/or someone not dying.

Armor isn't going to do that.
Sacrificing something that keeps you from getting hit for something that only works if you get hit is kind of a bad deal in a game where preventing taking hits is key.

[Lemonhead]

Vests are not that useful because it only helps when you're getting hit. Kitting out soldiers for killing aliens before they shoot is possible and much better than spending time/resources/slots on vests.

It's not the vest's fault. It' just the way the game is set up with alien pods, their activation rules, and that they never shoot before you have had a chance to kill them.

In contrast though, in X-Com from the 90s aliens usually shot first. This made armor usually as or even more important as weapon upgrades. I made the mistake of thinking armor was essential in X Com 2 at first because of this. As it turns out, armor is very much secondary.

[Panfilo]

Like I said, they should've worked in vests in a way that either gave a lot of synergy with other stuff, or didn't compete on the same level as offensive inventory items.

Different armor types could've had different slots designating the type of inventory you could take, such as:

Armor 1: Any item
Armor 2: 1 vest, 1 any
Armor 3: 1 vest, 1 grenade, 1 any
Armor 4: 1 vest, 2 any

Or have vests specific to a class giving a practical benefit.

[Nokad]

Originally posted by chris:

Originally posted by Nokad:

throwing a mimic beacon with them is just a wasted round, especially late game.

lol

If you quote me, than quote everything I wrote not just a part of it. But since you don't seem to understand I make it more clear, just for you.

With a PSI OPERATIVE throwing a mimic beacon is a wasted round when you can instead use dominate, null lance, inspire or any other of the op abilities.

With a GRENADIER it's a wasted round when you can instead throw grenades to blow cover or shred armor or disable/slow melee enemies with fire, poison or flash grenades.

With a MELEE RANGER it's a wasted round when you can instead use run&gun, reaper/rapid fire or finish of an enemy with your sword.

But it's alright, I'm pretty sure you belong to those who can't play this game without the mimic beacon. No problem.

[!?!]

Originally posted by Nokad:

With a PSI OPERATIVE throwing a mimic beacon is a wasted round when you can instead use dominate, null lance, inspire or any other of the op abilities.

With a GRENADIER it's a wasted round when you can instead throw grenades to blow cover or shred armor or disable/slow melee enemies with fire, poison or flash grenades.

With a MELEE RANGER it's a wasted round when you can instead use run&gun, reaper/rapid fire or finish of an enemy with your sword.

Doing something is a wasted turn because you could be doing something else instead.
Brilliant.

[hghwolf]

Originally posted by Nokad:

With a PSI OPERATIVE throwing a mimic beacon is a wasted round when you can instead use dominate, null lance, inspire or any other of the op abilities.

With a GRENADIER it's a wasted round when you can instead throw grenades to blow cover or shred armor or disable/slow melee enemies with fire, poison or flash grenades.

With a MELEE RANGER it's a wasted round when you can instead use run&gun, reaper/rapid fire or finish of an enemy with your sword.

I wouldn`t say it`s as cut and dry as that, certainly MOST of the time your reasoning is correct, but especially if you accidentally activate a pod late in your turn a mimic beacon is probably a good choice, and having that contingency option is worth not having 1 armour to me.

[Nokad]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Why would you put a vest on an explosive grenadier? Giving them a vest is one less explosive they can lob (by which I assume that you'll use EXO/WAR instead of Predator/Warden, since you can't use both slots for explosives, so instead bring a heavy weapon)

No I'm using predator/warden on them. Why waste an exo/war on a class that already got enough explosives. I use exo/war on classes that are missing this.

With the predator/warden you'll have 3 slots, 1 for grenades, one utility and one grenadier only, 'nades again. I use it that way because grenades are more versatile than the heavy weapons, which can be used by every class.

[Nokad]

Originally posted by hghwolf, potato freezer:

I wouldn`t say it`s as cut and dry as that, certainly MOST of the time your reasoning is correct, but especially if you accidentally activate a pod late in your turn a mimic beacon is probably a good choice, and having that contingency option is worth not having 1 armour to me.

You're absolutely right. As emergency tool the mimic beacon is great but in this regard you really only need one, maximum two which leaves said classes with the option for vests.