How does leveling work?

[Kunovega]

I always just figured it was number of kills and my soldiers would level up eventually.

Though I've given a lot of thought and effort into feeding kills to lower level soldiers in an effort to catch them up and I try to avoid a Colonel getting a kill if a lower level is in position to get the kill instead (for XP), I've never really kept track to find hard numbers.

Typically the higher rank a soldier is the more kills they've had so it never really mattered to me to fine tune my process beyond that as it appeared to be working.

Thing is I just had a soldier with only 24 missions and 96 kills reach Colonel before another soldier with 28 missions and 120 kills (she's still a major)

I'm just curious what I'm missing from this equation. Why did a soldier with less missions and less kills max out faster?

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say: if a soldier has ranked up inside of a mission, is it that all additional kills do not give them XP until they have been promoted?

If that's the case that would explain it as the one who hasn't leveled up is a sniper who tends to get many number of kills after leveling up within a mission (her kill zone numbers are crazy)

If that's how it works I now need to be more careful and stop feeding kills to someone that's leveled up on that mission before getting a chance to promote them. I have several lower rank people who aren't anywhere near those two in rank (and I'm deep in a Legend campaign)

[KalkiKrosah]

It also matters what you kill. Troopers are on the low end of the spectrum while a Gatekeeper is at the high end. That may be the issue you ran into where the one with less kills and missions leveled faster.

There is also the case where the soldier who you started with later ranks up in the early levels faster because they are outmatched by the enemies they are facing while the older soldier gets lower returns because they are on even ground with their competition early on.

I don't know for sure but these are two possibilities I came up with on my own.

[HandyVac]

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say: if a soldier has ranked up inside of a mission, is it that all additional kills do not give them XP until they have been promoted?

This exactly. A soldier can only earn one promotion per mission, any kills after that do not count.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by KalkiKrosah:

It also matters what you kill.

No. It doesn't. Every kill is worth the same xp.

[Stray Inu]

As Handy says, one promotion per mission. you can also use a tactic school perk to increase experience per kill.

[gimmethegepgun]

Also, there's shared xp for kills. Everyone in the mission gets some xp for every kill in that mission, regardless of who got it.
For specialists, 3 squad kills = 1 kill
Rangers and Rookie are 4
Sharpshooter and Grenadier are 5

EDIT: apparently Sharp's xp gain got nerfed, since it's now 5 not 4

[learnedhand]

Not sure if mentioned before but different classes level up at different rates. For example, 3 assist kills for a specialist = one kill whereas the number is 4 assists (or is it 5?) = one kill for a grenadier.

I believe they also require different numbers of kills for level-up as well though I've never seen any specific numbers mentioned.

So someone who has less missions and less kills might level up faster depending on the class and on the number of assists they are credited with.

Its cumbersome to test because the vanilla game does not keep visible track of assists (as far as I am aware) and we don't know the baseline number of kills needed for each rank and each class. Also, what counts as an assist? Does collateral damage count as an assist? If you blow up a car that damages an enemy does that count? Probably not. There are some mods that keep track of assists.

[Eggy]

Its also possible you have purchased wetwork halfway through your campaign. This would make newer troopers level faster.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by learnedhand:

Its cumbersome to test because the vanilla game does not keep visible track of assists (as far as I am aware) and we don't know the baseline number of kills needed for each rank and each class.

It's far easier to look in the .ini files to find the answer.
From DefaultGameData_XpData we can find that they have disabled the full xp system they had planned at one point (where loads of things gave exp) and instead went on a kill count basis:

; Rookie difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[0]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=5, \\
RequiredKills[3]=12, \\
RequiredKills[4]=24, \\
RequiredKills[5]=38, \\
RequiredKills[6]=57, \\
RequiredKills[7]=81)

; Veteran difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[1]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=6, \\
RequiredKills[3]=12, \\
RequiredKills[4]=24, \\
RequiredKills[5]=38, \\
RequiredKills[6]=57, \\
RequiredKills[7]=81)

; Commander difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[2]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=6, \\
RequiredKills[3]=12, \\
RequiredKills[4]=24, \\
RequiredKills[5]=42, \\
RequiredKills[6]=60, \\
RequiredKills[7]=85)

; Legend difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[3]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=8, \\
RequiredKills[3]=18, \\
RequiredKills[4]=40, \\
RequiredKills[5]=70, \\
RequiredKills[6]=110, \\
RequiredKills[7]=175)

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by learnedhand:

Its cumbersome to test because the vanilla game does not keep visible track of assists (as far as I am aware) and we don't know the baseline number of kills needed for each rank and each class.

It's far easier to look in the .ini files to find the answer.
From DefaultGameData_XpData we can find that they have disabled the full xp system they had planned at one point (where loads of things gave exp) and instead went on a kill count basis:

; Rookie difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[0]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=5, \\
RequiredKills[3]=12, \\
RequiredKills[4]=24, \\
RequiredKills[5]=38, \\
RequiredKills[6]=57, \\
RequiredKills[7]=81)

; Veteran difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[1]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=6, \\
RequiredKills[3]=12, \\
RequiredKills[4]=24, \\
RequiredKills[5]=38, \\
RequiredKills[6]=57, \\
RequiredKills[7]=81)

; Commander difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[2]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=6, \\
RequiredKills[3]=12, \\
RequiredKills[4]=24, \\
RequiredKills[5]=42, \\
RequiredKills[6]=60, \\
RequiredKills[7]=85)

; Legend difficulty
PerDifficultyConfig[3]=( \\
RequiredKills[0]=0, \\
RequiredKills[1]=1, \\
RequiredKills[2]=8, \\
RequiredKills[3]=18, \\
RequiredKills[4]=40, \\
RequiredKills[5]=70, \\
RequiredKills[6]=110, \\
RequiredKills[7]=175)

That's interesting and if those numbers are in effect then it at least also proves that assists give some XP because none of my colonels are at 175 kills (and yes they were rookies from the start of the campaign)

Originally posted by Eggy:

Its also possible you have purchased wetwork halfway through your campaign. This would make newer troopers level faster.

I did, but it wouldn't have affected those two in that way. The ranger (who leveled first) never went on a mission without the sniper. Only the sniper had a few extra missions under her belt (while the ranger was injured).

The sniper caught up 2 missions later *shrug*

Originally posted by learnedhand:

Not sure if mentioned before but different classes level up at different rates. For example, 3 assist kills for a specialist = one kill whereas the number is 4 assists (or is it 5?) = one kill for a grenadier.

I believe they also require different numbers of kills for level-up as well though I've never seen any specific numbers mentioned.

So someone who has less missions and less kills might level up faster depending on the class and on the number of assists they are credited with.

Its cumbersome to test because the vanilla game does not keep visible track of assists (as far as I am aware) and we don't know the baseline number of kills needed for each rank and each class. Also, what counts as an assist? Does collateral damage count as an assist? If you blow up a car that damages an enemy does that count? Probably not. There are some mods that keep track of assists.

My grenadiers are taking forever. They have the bad position of almost always taking the early shot to peel off armor or taken down cover so they rarely get the clean up kill shots.

I'm almost to end game and its looking like it will be faster to buy a grenadier colonel than to level up my originals, the rest of my squad is hitting colonel and finished out equipment.

We'll see, I'm just waiting on psi-ops to finish maxing out before I move towards winning.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

That's interesting and if those numbers are in effect then it at least also proves that assists give some XP because none of my colonels are at 175 kills (and yes they were rookies from the start of the campaign)

Yes. I already said that.

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Also, there's shared xp for kills. Everyone in the mission gets some xp for every kill in that mission, regardless of who got it.
For specialists, 3 squad kills = 1 kill
Rangers and Rookie are 4
Sharpshooter and Grenadier are 5

EDIT: apparently Sharp's xp gain got nerfed, since it's now 5 not 4

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

That's interesting and if those numbers are in effect then it at least also proves that assists give some XP because none of my colonels are at 175 kills (and yes they were rookies from the start of the campaign)

Yes. I already said that.

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Also, there's shared xp for kills. Everyone in the mission gets some xp for every kill in that mission, regardless of who got it.
For specialists, 3 squad kills = 1 kill
Rangers and Rookie are 4
Sharpshooter and Grenadier are 5

EDIT: apparently Sharp's xp gain got nerfed, since it's now 5 not 4

Right, I know you said it; I was just saying that this confirms it as well

There's trust and than there's verification. It's nice to have both.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Right, I know you said it; I was just saying that this confirms it as well

There's trust and than there's verification. It's nice to have both.

K. Also supported by how my Specialists are often the first Colonels. They get loads of assist xp, and they tend to get pretty decent kills too thanks to Combat Protocol and the Stocks I give them.

[lwn_1978]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

I


My grenadiers are taking forever. They have the bad position of almost always taking the early shot to peel off armor or taken down cover so they rarely get the clean up kill shots.

I'm almost to end game and its looking like it will be faster to buy a grenadier colonel than to level up my originals, the rest of my squad is hitting colonel and finished out equipment.

We'll see, I'm just waiting on psi-ops to finish maxing out before I move towards winning.

Just a suggestion...maybe use your grenadiers by having them use grenades? Kind of a tongue in cheek reply, yes, but using them as your explosive/fire/heavy weapons/ reigning flamey explody death down upon your foes seems to have them leveling for me just behind my rangers and usually just ahead of the specialists and sharpshooters.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by lwn_1978:

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Just a suggestion...maybe use your grenadiers by having them use grenades? Kind of a tongue in cheek reply, yes, but using them as your explosive/fire/heavy weapons/ reigning flamey explody death down upon your foes seems to have them leveling for me just behind my rangers and usually just ahead of the specialists and sharpshooters.

I do use them for grenades, it's just that generally if I'm grenading something it's to take away their cover and/or armor.

Grenadiers tend to be my front line. They have the best armor and they clear the path for everyone else to take better shots.

Snipers are followup, they get the bulk of my kills and in my other play throughs are almost always first to level up because they go on every mission and rarely get hurt.

Rangers are either scouting (and keep their concealment) which lets the snipers get squadsight shots on aliens that can't even attack us or they break concealment to charge in and finish something off if it just needs to die and no one else managed to do it. Rangers for me tend to level up second, they do a lot of cleanup work. (what lead to this thread was a ranger that just happened to level faster this time, I think it's because she ended up with serial really early AWC and I've managed to use her for more kills than I normally would)

Specialists are well... special. Generally I leave them to move, shoot or do something utility after everyone else is done, or put them on overwatch because the board is clear. Specialists for me tend to level up 3rd, they get more overwatch kills than the grenadiers get kills in total.

I get a lot of flawless or near flawless missions this way.

The alternatives that I've tried where rangers go in first and leaving the grenadiers on clean up leads to a lot more missed shots due to cover and a lot more armor absorbing damage from my attacks. Which leaves a lot more aliens to return fire. I generally prefer to kill a pod or two in 1 or 2 turns; not 3.

[lwn_1978]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Originally posted by lwn_1978:

I do use them for grenades, it's just that generally if I'm grenading something it's to take away their cover and/or armor.

Grenadiers tend to be my front line. They have the best armor and they clear the path for everyone else to take better shots.

Snipers are followup, they get the bulk of my kills and in my other play throughs are almost always first to level up because they go on every mission and rarely get hurt.

Rangers are either scouting (and keep their concealment) which lets the snipers get squadsight shots on aliens that can't even attack us or they break concealment to charge in and finish something off if it just needs to die and no one else managed to do it. Rangers for me tend to level up second, they do a lot of cleanup work. (what lead to this thread was a ranger that just happened to level faster this time, I think it's because she ended up with serial really early AWC and I've managed to use her for more kills than I normally would)

Specialists are well... special. Generally I leave them to move, shoot or do something utility after everyone else is done, or put them on overwatch because the board is clear. Specialists for me tend to level up 3rd, they get more overwatch kills than the grenadiers get kills in total.

I get a lot of flawless or near flawless missions this way.

The alternatives that I've tried where rangers go in first and leaving the grenadiers on clean up leads to a lot more missed shots due to cover and a lot more armor absorbing damage from my attacks. Which leaves a lot more aliens to return fire. I generally prefer to kill a pod or two in 1 or 2 turns; not 3.

Using now triple pod size mods, I generally clear an entire pod in a round...just saying. Everyone does have their own way, for me my rangers tend to do most of the heavy lifting and grenadiers second. They are like my one two primary punch combo really. I break my specialists apart in to two basically seperate classes, one medic one hacker...myhacker specialists do pretty decent kill ratio, my medic specialists I tend to hold back in case of emergency break glass kinda thing. My sharpshooters I use as my 'target the scariest thing in the room' guy, so they dont get super high kills but they get the highest quality kills generally.

Funny thing, first play through, my Psi operatives kicked major ass, but in later games now I end up with them in more supportive roles as I got more comfortable using the grenadiers and rangers.

Also, if you havent already, I highly suggest grabbing the LWS mods...the new class and perk tweeks are a hell of a lot of fun and open up all sorts of new strategeries to play with.